Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 180gr Nosler BT for elk?

I've seen one elk killed with a BT. 300 Win mag shooting 180 BT, recovered bullet looked like an add. Expansion was excellent with a nice shank left.

JB the bullets loaded are recent manufacture, purchased about 2019 or 20. I figure it may have been a bad bullet but the nosler tech believed it was just a fluke. Basically a perfect shot in the ribs and a impact velocity of about 2600 fps according to the Nosler rep’s est. Truly I am surprised at the fact it appeared to have blown up on the rib. I am not a ballistic tip hater and have seen a antelope shot at 75 yards with the same load and nothing more than a half dollar sized exit wound. One reason I use this bullet was that performance and the fact the first max load I tried with 7828 went 3250 and shot very well. I dropped the load to 3150 fps and still shoots very well
For the guy who asked why a 300 on Antelope main reason is it was ready to hunt and is a very accurate rifle. I have shot them with a 223,6mm,257 Rbts, 300wby in the past and almost grabbed a 270 or 06. I guess the fact it was sighted in and the scope reticle gave me confidence for a longish shot.
These herd of antelope ran when they seen you at 4 miles. Lol
Maybe a exaggeration but thats what a guy told me when we stopped for a burger and he asked what unit we were hunting. I had never experienced that before. I spotted this antelope in a draw and worked my way in for a shot. 350yds and I was out of cover and he had me spotted. Shot from cross sticks so was pretty steady.

Two bull elk, 410 yds (measured) and 260ish yds with Nosler ballistic tip 180s from a 30-378 Weatherby at 3400 fps chronographed. Several antelope at some long ranges and some mule deer. All dropped dead except the shorter range elk who stumbled about 70 yds and fell. All shots passed through. Also hell on prairie dogs with no recovered bullets either.

338reddog,

Thanks for the details. It does sound like it was a fluke.

I've also taken a pronghorn with a .300 magnum--the .300 WSM in 2000 just before it was first announced at the 2001 SHOT Show. Used factory ammo featuring the 150-grain Ballistic Silvertip, which is the Ballistic Tip dressed in different colors. The range was around 270 yards and it worked fine, in and out of the ribcage without excessive meat damage.

This was on an "industry" hunt sponsored by Winchester with several other hunters, so I not only got to see the results of the shots on several other bucks, but actually watched a couple others being taken.

I had 165 grain BTs out of a 300 win mag fail on a combination antelope and mule deer hunt. Bullet blew up on both animals. They had a full charge of IMR 4350 behind them, so I suspect they were travelling something north of 3K. That was sometime in the early 90's, it's been so long I can't remember exactly when. It was before my son was born in 95.

I know the BT bullets are better now, but I just can't bring myself to use them again when I could shoot partitions. I know they are going to work every time.

Jeezus F’n H Christ…. The last 4 big game animals I’ve taken have been killed with the “LOWLY” 165 Nosler Ballistic tip out of a 308… It’s blown thru the chests of 3 elk and one moose…
Why TF this bullet get so much disrespect is beyond me.
It’s going moose hunting next week and elk hunting in Dec… Have no doubt it will work, again.

People living in the past mostly.

No disrespect here, currently shooting 50 gr. BT's out of a 222 Rem, and 120 gr. BT's out of a 6.5 Grendel and a 260 Rem.

Just am of the opinion that there are better choices (as in optimal) when going after critters that matter.

ya!

GWB

Adding 400fps might change things?



That said, my 660 308 has used 165BTs since 1989. (Except for a bit of time with 165gr HPBT Sierras)

All old style, out of 100 count boxes. I bought the stock of a closing store!😁😁

For deer, in that gun, they are perfect.
Plenty of damage, not excessive(usually), full penetration(usually),
DRT(usually) or short trails(usually)

Put so many usually in there to make a point.


Shooting guns, and especially shooting them at animals, you
make choices based on odds. You can stack the deck, you can
try to affect the outcome.

However, you can never totally control the outcome.

Schidt happens.

Yep, that was before Ballistic Tips from about 7mm up were strengthened, either by heavier jackets or harder lead cores, or both. Some of the earliest, however, were good to go from the start, such as the 140-grain 7mm. I used it in the late 1980s with no problems--and never recovered one.

The reason the early Ballistic Tips "over-expanded" was Nosler simply put plastic tips in their Solid Base soft-points--which were pretty tough bullets. In fact the first animal I killed with a Solid Base was a Montana whitetail buck, with the 100-grain 6mm started at 3000 fps from a .243 Winchester. The range was around 125 yards, and the buck was angling away. At the shot he went maybe 10-15 feet and fell dead. The bullet entered at the rear of the left ribs and ended up in the right shoulder, retaining 61.5% of its weight.

But Nosler didn't realize adding the plastic tip would would cause problems, due to the BIG hollow-point required for rear end of the tip. That was in the mid-to-late 1980s.

The changes in Ballistic Tips started shortly afterward, which is when the 200-grain .338 was developed. And what they learned from that was soon applied to other Ballistic Tip hunting bullets. (The varmint Ballistic Tips always worked fine.)

Hornady went through the same sort of deal when they introduced SSTs not too long afterward--which are basically Interlocks with plastic tips. But like Nosler they also made some adjustments, and the present SSTs (and ELD-Xs, which are essentially a higher-BC version of SSTs) worked pretty well. I went on a hunt in Texas five years ago where several hunters all used Fiocchi .308 Winchester ammo loaded with 150-grain SSTs. We killed 20 whitetails and pigs up to 200 pounds live weight, and never recovered a bullet. The biggest deer was shot quartering to the hunter, and the biggest pig was broadside, and shot through both shoulders.

I have a friend in Colorado that only uses 180gr BT at 2750fps. His rifle is a sporterized 1903a3 in 30-06. He uses that rifle for everything, yes everything, PDs to Elk. Never has an issue. He calls those bullets “green death”.

Thanks, Tom

Yup, my 3 bad experiences in NW Montana were with the Nosler .277" 130 grain BT at 3100 fps in 1984, switched to the Hornady 140 grain boat tail Interlock the following 2 years with good results.

41

I've done so. They are identical.
Here is a pic comparing the two. Not mine BTW.
[Linked Image][url=http://https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d128/stubblejumper11/P7230005.jpg][/url]

When I see stories of bullets made during the last 20 years blowing up on ribs and such I immediately think BS.
The last BT I killed a bull elk with broke both shoulders and was recovered under the hide on the off side the core had seperated and I didn't look for it but the jacket weighed something like 70gr IIRC. Entrance hole was fist sized. Bull was dead on the spot too. This was from a 300 RUM at close range.

Your link doesn't work...
I've got nothing against ballistic tips. I use them to debug a rifle that supposedly has accuracy issues to verify the potential of said firearm. Once the problems are found and resolved I'll move forward and find a load that works for the intended purpose. That's the fun in reloading, experiment and find the components that give you the results you're confident with. 👌

I'll say if no one else will bullshit. The ones nosler makes today are better BUT every gunshow I do these days you will find tables that have boxes of bullets for sale . The original NBT's with the explosive traits are still out there. They were packaged in a black box with a label that was red / green and white you buy that vintage your screwed. Accurate yes but explosive. If the OP used that vintage it explains his results..mb

Hang around long enough and get in on enough critter killing and about all bullets have and will "fail".

A lot of these failures result in some very dead critters so I wonder how we can really consider them a failure.

Match the tool to the job at hand and things go pretty smooth.

That depends on what you're going to do with them. The 165 grain in that version was a great deer bullet out of a 308 Winchester.

And a 30-06.

Some background trivia about AccuBonds and Ballistic Tips:

After the introduction of Ballistic Tips, hunters kept bugging Nosler to make a "tipped" Partition, and some also bugged them about making a "bonded" Partition. Instead Nosler decided to bond Ballistic Tips, and when they did tested the bonded version to see how it penetrated. In some of the bullets the bonding made a difference, and in others it didn't--so they dropped some of the Ballistic Tips in favor of the AccuBond model, usually larger-caliber bullets. The 260-grain .375 Ballistic Tips, for example, only existed for a year or so before being turned into AccuBonds.

So yes, if you section Ballistic Tips and AccuBonds of the same caliber and weight, they'll usually appear identical. But the bonding process Nosler uses (and many other companies do as well) involves heating the bullet until the core melts slightly, so gets soldered to the jacket.

However, this also softens the jacket slightly, but that doesn't matter as long as its bonded to the core. AccuBonds still tend to retain more weight than Ballistic Tips due to the bonding, but also often "mushroom" wider, which can reduce penetration.

This also doesn't matter much, especially in the larger-caliber models. One of my favorites is the 250-grain 9.3mm, which I've used on a bunch of big game up to kudu and grizzly. Have only recovered one, from the third shot at the grizzly.

It went down at the first shot, taken at around 65 yards as the boar quartered away. I aimed behind the near shoulder, hoping to break the far shoulder, and the bear immediately dropped. But it got back up again almost as quickly, and ran back along the path it had been walking--which brought it closer to me and my guide. We both shot at the same instant, but missed, because the bear turned to bite at the entry wound.

My third shot was taken as it angled away, the bullet entering the right ribs, and the bear sank into some tall grass. We approached very cautiously, but it was dead--probably due to the first shot as much as anything, which made a big hole in both lungs and exiting--but missed the far shoulder by maybe an inch.

The last bullet ended up under the hide on the left side of the neck. It retained over 80% of its weight, because larger-caliber AccuBonds, like larger Partitions, are designed to retain more of their weight.

But AccuBonds also a brief problem about a year and a half after being introduced. They immediately became very popular, so much that one of the guys in the Nosler assembly line decided to speed up his job--which resulted in the cores not bonding. Since the jacket was softened, those bullets came apart even worse than some early Ballistic Tips. The problem was caught quickly, because Nosler tests small batches of each manufacturing run both for accuracy and penetration, but a few did get sent to stores and distributors.

I started using AccuBonds as soon as they appeared, and never ran into any of those unbonded bullets, but a few people did, so still don't trust AccuBonds--much like those who used some of the early Ballistic Tips.

Of course, some other bullets have gone through growing pains. I never got consistent results with Barnes Xs, whether accuracy or opening, until a decade or so after they appeared, and later learned from Randy Brooks that was due to inconsistent copper. Once he regularly got good copper the problems went away, and after the grooved TSX bullets appeared, if I recall correctly in 2004, Xs became far more popular.