Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only "Walkin Around In Bear Country" Big Bore

Have a couple choices for back country hiking rifle in Montana/Wyoming next spring. Definitely black bear areas with a chance of brown bear being around.
458 with 450 TSX at 2350fps, in an over 10 pound rifle.
or
375 Ruger with 270 TSX at 2850, about 9 pound rifle.
The 375 has lots of use and some scratches, so I am leaning towards that but the 458 is definitely a thumper. Any thoughts?

Go lighter and make your walking more enjoyable, this coming from a guy who used to pack a 9lb .375 everywhere. I walk around alot in bear country. My favorite defense rifles are two bolt actions and one lever action. The bolts are both Model 70 classic stainless models with Talley QDs, a .416 Taylor that weighs 7.5 lbs and a 9.3x62 that weighs 7.25lbs. For walking around they wear the peep sight. My levergun option is a 6 lb .444 Marlin.

I would prefer the 9# over the 10#.
Cartridge wise, in my opinion, the 458 definitely strikes a heavier blow. But, I frequently moose hunt with a 20" 375 Ruger and a 270 grain TSX and/or LRX. At times, I will use an 8#, 20" 375 Ruger when hiking.

My personal "near ideal" off the shelf, bolt action hiking rifle would be the older 20" Ruger Alaskan in 416 Ruger with a 325-350 grain. This is also an 8#'ish rifle.

I also like a couple of 20" Marlin 45-70's. I have recently considered 16-1/4 to 18" versions.

You're fine with a 270 or 30-06. Used to guide in the Bob Marshall

Colorado, what’s your experience stopping charging brown bears?

Stopped two at less than 20 feet. Of course that was in my early 20s and they were only mountain grizzlies (around 400 lbs). A 150g Partition just above the nose between the eyes did the trick. I had the master guide backing me up with a a Model 12 loaded with 00 buckshot. He didn't want to use the shotgun, cause it would ruin the pelt. Of course now that I'm much older and been on too many forums, my 375 Weatherby seems a little small for the job now Probably bring my 500 Jeffery if I have a chance go to Kodiak to look for a 10 footer

86,

PA and I have discussed topics similar to this a fair bit over the years. W/O getting into everything, I can vouch for his credentials. He definitely has the background and experience when it comes to the topic.

I spend a lot of time in large bear territory. That said, I very rarely choose to carry a long gun, as I find them to be cumbersome and frankly they get heavy quickly if you are covering the miles. If there is a definite problem bear in the area then that is another story, but common sense goes a long way. You take certain precautions, such as avoiding areas with thick brush, and places where the noise such as running water from a creek/stream can mask the sound of a large animal. Going off trail and going around those areas is simply easier than putting yourself into situations you don't need to.

I was reminded of this just this week on another forum as someone linked a short article that was written by a guy who has lived in the same general geographical area and takes the same basic approaches to such things.

As far as long guns, going with shorter barrels and something that you can handle with a level of unconscious competence is (in my opinion) more important than the particular cartridge, to a degree. A rifle that you can operate without even thinking about and is absolutely dead nuts reliable is far more important than getting the next biggest thing out there.

Bullets matter far more then cartridges, and another vital thing to prioritize is the reliability of the gun.

Having killed game from 70 pounds to 6 tons in several states and in 5 countries I can tell anyone who's interested that a good reliable and deep penetrating bullet is probably the most important factor in defending one's self against big game that's too close.

I live on the edge of grizzly country and I go into it all the time. Speaking only for myself, I feel 100% confident with several of my rifles in calibers from 308s, 30-06s, 300 H&H, 8X57, 358 Win, 9.3X57s 9.3X62, 375H&H and 404 Jeffery.

Speaking also from experience I can assure you that some cartridges that have more power don't use that power well on game under 700 pounds. That's why when I killed deer with my 416s my 458 Winchesters and my 375H&H, if I used very tough RN or FMJ bullets none of those deer fell as fast as the ones I killed with 25-06 or 270 Winchester. Why? Because it's like shooting a cardboard box with those big guns and the wrong bullets. They just make a bullet size hole and keep going. All died yes, but it was more like killing them with a good broadhead from a bow then it was a good killing rifle.
(Note: most bullets in the 375 are fine. Only the FMJs were unimpressive)

Bears can be tough for sure and they can be dangerous when wounded. That's not news to anyone. But you need a bullet that holds together and yet expands well, and one that will go fairly straight in the game after it hits the skin.

When I am out among the grizzlies the rifle I carry about 50% of the time is an M1 Garand loaded with 220 grain RN bullets. (the other 50% I carry one of abut 9 others) I use 3031 powder so the port pressure is correct for the old M1 rifle and it's been 100% reliable and I can hit a nickel with it at 50 yards, yet I can also hit running rabbits with it probably 6 times out of 8 shots. The 30-06 with a 220 grain RN bullet was (probably still is) a "standard" in Alaska for big bears and the M1 allows me to fire both fast AND accurately. It's not a rifle that most sportsman think of right off when talking about guns and cartridges for defense against anything of 2000 pounds or less, yet my experience with the round proves to me its very capable, and the M1 is a very easy rifle to shoot fast and shoot well, BOTH AT THE SAME TIME!

I own several classic rifles that are fine for DG from my 9.3s and my 375H&H and also a classic 404 Jeffery. I have owned four different 416s, 6 different 45-70s and also 5 different 458 as well as a 460 and because I was not using them much I sold them all, keeping my 375 and my 404 to more then cover the bases there.

But for bears I find I grab my M1 most times. One other that gets some recent use and carry is my AR10 style in 358 Winchester.

But in summery, I feel the bullet and then the gun itself as far more important then the cartridge. I am 100% serious when I say if I had to choose between my 270 with 160 gr Nosler Partitions or a 300 magnum with any 150 to 220 grain bullets that broke up badly, I'd take the 270 every single time without the slightest hesitation. Having killed about 100 horses and cattle on our old ranch with my 270s I know exactly what the bullet will do and I need not guess about it any more.

Such a bullet design in a more powerful rifle is going to be better still, so I am not some small-bore trickster. I have big guns and tent to love them.

I am just saying most folks miss the highly important things and focus on the less important things in such decisions.

Thanks Mackay. I did some walking around and fishing yesterday.........





The 6lb .444 is shown with my bear alert companion. At one o'clock from the rifle you can see what looks like cement on the ground. That's fish laden brown bear crap.

I'm very glad things worked out for you Colorado. If you end up hitting them just right in the head with a good bullet things can work out, but that's a big risk. I find stout bullets of greater diameter with sufficient penetration provide alot more leeway for the less than ideal angles you get presented with. And don't discount a bear based on small size. Browns/grizzlies are dangerous regardless of size, and most people killed and eaten by black bears are done in by animals less than 300 pounds in weight.

I know one guy who shot a brown bear in the face with a .308 at 15 yards, hitting it just left of center above the eye. It recoiled as if it had been punched and then ambled off. It died after a few more bullets to the lungs. That bear wasn't being aggressive but was authorized to be killed after becoming totally habituated to humans. If it had been bent on hurting him things would've been much more interesting.

Yeah, seems I have read, that someone on a guided hunt used a 375 Wby with 375 H&H 300 A-Frames. I believe they stated words to the effect that it did not feel too large at the time.

I'm pretty sure that brown bears haven't made it down to Montana yet. They're pretty married to the coast.
I live in Kodiak and we actually do have brown bears here. I can't imagine being so worried about bears that i would pack my 458 around . All the DLP bears i have killed have been with 12 ga or 308 Winchester.
Mostly i just carry a handgun unless I'm looking for trouble.

Great pictures PA.

Having that dog there to watch your back and raise the alarm sounds like a very good plan. That rifle turned out great.

For a backcountry hiking rifle I would want short and light, my current choice would be my Rossi stainless trapper in 44 mag stoked with 320 gr WFN hardcast at 1300fps.
Ghost ring peep, fast , hard hitting, light and handy. In fact it's also my yard gun, never know when grizz will show up raiding my garbage....

That was me lol. I am no longer 20 and immortal

[img]https://i.imgur.com/c5FiRIO.jpg?1[/img]

That was me lol. I am no longer 20 and immortal

https://i.imgur.com/c5FiRIO.jpg

Walk with what you want but speed and hitting your target is where it’s at for me. I walk every week in BB and Griz country and I am perfectly fine with a Glock 23, 19, or 47. Carry 686 7 shot as well and 629s. (250s at 950-1100) When I lived in AK remote I was attacked by a black bear and had what I consider One of THE worst gun I probably could have had, a super Blackhawk at full tilt with 320s. I missed at point black range, mostly because I couldn’t draw fast enough.

A super Blackhawk bobbed to 4 5/8” and properly holstered is a whole other gun.
Drawing and presentation of the gun is indeed very important.
Your other choices are good as well!
F01

Guy I fished with in Alaska had a 458 Win Mag leaned up in the corner. Most of the people we saw walking around on shore had a pump 12 or a Marlin Lever big bore. I didn't see anybody but me with no gun on Chicagof Island except in town.

I just noticed that Bucktail is "wrong handed". My condolences

A revolver (44 Mag) or pistol (10mm or 45 Super) on you is a lot better than a rifle or shotgun leaning on a tree while you're in the stream fishing. I've been there