Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Grouping Question

Just had a question regarding 3 shot groups when testing new loads because I've noticed this on several different occasions and a good friend of mine that also reloads has also noticed it. I've tested alot of different loads in my particular rifle and have found a couple that shoot pretty good but something neither one of us can figure out is when we shoot a 3 shot group in his rifles and mine alot of times our first 2 shots are very close together and about the time we think we've found a good load we fire the third one and it might be 2-6 inches away from the first 2 and just crushes our hopes. With that being said I understand some of it could be the shooters fault but it seems to happen so much so often with that 3rd and final shot. Today we experienced this while I was testing some Barnes 7MM 120 grain TTSX in my model 70 extreme weather. To start off the groups wasnt bad but not as good as I wanted. I changed the seating depth from 2.800 to 2.750 with the same load of 50.0 grains of Big Game and the first two shots were only about an 1/8 inch apart and I looked at my buddy and told him if this third shot does what the first two did I'm not firing another shot today. Well after taking his air compressor and blowing air down the barrel for a few minutes to help the barrel cool quicker I fired the third shot and it hit about 2 inches from the other two. Any help with with this would be appreciated and if someone would like to see the target and don't mind posting the pictures for me I can text you a picture of the target.

believe it or not.... after those first two shots the barrel starts to warm up, and even if I let it cool of awhile, I tend to think I blew the shot, and I know I get to confident in my shooting, and when I am conscience of that it gets back in the huddle.

First thought that comes to mind is shooter error. It sounds like this happens a lot. A properly tuned rifle should never throw a shot out of the group by 2-6" away. Especially for a 3 shot group. Really, during load development you should be shooting 5 shots per group. If you are on a steady bench and sandbags or rests, you should be able to see a node develop. Groups either get bigger or smaller, as you increase charge weight. If a shot is thrown that wide, it is generally the shooter or a mechanical problem with the rifle. Just in reading your OP, it sounds like this happens "a lot". Hence the reason I say shooter error.

Try shooting a 10-shot group. Do you see double grouping or just one circular group? If double grouping, I’d suspect the scope. If just one large, circular group, the sample size of 3 shots just wasn’t large enough to show what the rifle/load/shooter are really capable of.

Good call... save 10 rounds. I try and go with scope issues. Bases and rings being loose, but it turns into a whirl wind.

When this happens to me, invariably it’s the rear sling swivel stud hanging up on the rear bag and obviously throwing the shot off. I take great pains to ensure something stupid like that never happens but I’m human.

Something similar for me with my rear rest.. my chin hits it and bothers but l focus and don’t let it bother me. The less distractions the better.

This was my first thought as well, but I guess it depends on your shooting setup.

I use an aluminum front rest (with owl ear ProtekTor bag) and a rear rabbit ear bag. If possible, I just remove the studs altogether when working up loads on a particular rifle. Otherwise, if I'm not paying close attention, sometimes I will see a 3rd shot flyer 2+ inches away.

I've never thought about taking the rear stud off before but I will definitely try it the next time I go shoot. Most of the time I'm shooting from a lead sled but i do also have a set of bags that I'll shoot off of occasionally.

There is not a lot of padding on back of a leadsled where the recoil pad sits and lack of movement of the rifle can transfer a lot of recoil into the scope. But I shot my 7mm-08 off a leadsled and never had a problem, but my 300 WM ruined a scope on a leadsled, I used bags now. But if you try all the above and nothing works, couldn't hurt to try a another scope off bags. But I would think a bad scope would be random, not every 3rd shot.

At this point after thinking about it and reading all of yalls post I'm starting to lean more towards it being me. What I'll probably do is load 5 more and go to the range and see how they do. I sure hope it's not a scope issue because I bought a new zeiss conquest V4 3-12x56 with 30mm tube right before the season started last year so it only has 1 hunting season of use. I completely started over with brand new scope, brand new talley one piece rings and torqued everything down to spec exactly as talley and winchester said to do.

This.

Additionally, you're using Barnes bullets. They can be more sensitive to power selection than other bullets. If your 5 and 10 shot groups don't look so hot, change powder. Load up a box of 20 with 4 minimum loads of 5, or visa versa. See what powder is seem to like best and work from there.

Double group could be fixed by dropping down .3 to .6 of a grain of powder on either side of the node. been there. Agreed powder change, it’s easier to find a good powder but not a bullet. Over confidence with two rounds and the third went away, is usually the shooter. No real reason to go beyond 3 rounds. Neck tension, finding charge node, and OAL, bullet that shoots better than others, doesn’t need to be proven beyond a few shots after a few fouling shots.