Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles 30-30 subs

Ok. This info may have already been hashed here, but I'm failing to find it. If there is a good string, please link.

I'm in the process of building out a new single shot 30-30 carbine with a 20" barrel from a Savage M219 that I'm taking the barrel down from 26" to 20". I'm wanting to develop some subsonic-ish loads with the Hornady 175 Sub-X bullets. I'm ok if it's actually 1200 FPS or so.

This is a just because build, etc, for my enjoyment and I like to entertain myself. Old colonel used to say it keeps you out of the pool hall. End goal will be a European style "Stutzen" carbine to be used on TX hogs. I'll also take another Savage M219 with the 26" barrel down the path of an upgraded stalking rifle. Using pointy 125ish grain bullets. Nice thing about single shots.

The Hornady Sub-X data from Hornady is all supersonic and starts at 1700fps. I'm guessing that is because the Hornady loaded Sub-X powder is still not available to the public.

So any suggestions on proven load data?

Thank you!

This should get you there - it's cast bullet data, but I've used it for jacketed bullets too

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

My fav's are IMR-4227, Unique and W-231 for low velocity rifle loads.

You could also ask SeaFire if he has Blue Dot loads for the .30-30

Yep, and a copy of Lyman's handbook (either the regular one or the cast bullet handbook) will help you too. There's a ton of suitable powders that'll be your friend in that project. I would go a step further and wrestle up a 180-200 grain bullet mold and never be a slave to the whims of the bullet makers ever again!

Thank you both. I guess I missed that data on my Lyman book.

However, thanks for the gmdr.com link. very helpful!

As for casting my own bullets, not sure I have the time and space at this point to pick up one more item to have in the workshop (garage)....

Doesn't fall into the category of subsonic loads, but a long passed old friend loaded 220 grain cast bullets in a .30-30, with what amounted to about a caseful of 4350 (not nearly a dangerous load). He haunted the Virginia Blue Ridge and over into West Virginia and it was a rare year he didn't get his bear - with a Savage 340 .30-30 and that load.

Never thought of trying that heavy of a bullet in a 1x12 twist 30 cal.

The length of the bullet has a big effect, not just the weight. A stubby heavy bullet is easier to stabilize than a lighter javelin.

The 30/30 is one of my favorite cartridges. My two "unicorn" unobtainable rifle combos I lust after, are a Model 54 Winchester in 30/30, and a Model 30 S Remington in 30 Remington.

I've used a lot of low velocity loads over the years in my 30/30s, pretty much out of the Lyman Cast bullet manuals.
I've loaded these up also for kids, here in Boy Scouts as a shooting instructor, and also for women out on their first deer
hunts.
a common one that has been very effective on blacktails here in Oregon at 100 yds or under have been 110 grain SP/ RN bullets, meant for a 30 carbine, and fueled by 10 grains of Unique. Women or 10 yr old kids have no problem shooting them.

On the other end, someone once asked about what was the biggest punch someone could get out of a 30/30 case.
The inquiry peaked my interest, and also coincided with one of the range managers, wanted to bear hunt and all he had was a single shot NEF, and asked about doing the biggest punch out of the gun he could get.

I worked up using a 180 grain RN ( to run thru the action of a lever rifle), and after that worked real well, also used a 220 grain RN/SP. Using a Model 64 Winchester, my dad bought at the base rod and gun club, when we were coming home from him being stationed in England in 1966...I was able to push the 220 grain RN, thru a 20 inched barrel Model 64 30/30 at 2100 fps. Powder used was W 748.

I took 10 pieces of once fired brass, loaded them up to the 35 grains of W 748 that I had worked up, seated the 220 grain RN into the case deep enough it would cycle thru the 30/30. I loaded those 10 pieces of brass 10 times, and fired them thru the Model 64 Lever action...the 64 is a Model 94, and was the number given to it, after they redid some of the manufacturing in 1964, just like they did on the Model 70s.

The rifle digested them fine with NO issues... although the recoil made one stand up and notice, compared to a regular 30/30 load. After testing the 10 cartridges with 10 reloads, and checking the primer pockets EACH time... I did an 11th reload on them. On the 11th reload, the primers still went in nice and tight, so I called it good.

If anyone wants to research it in the Campfire Archive files, I'm sure you'll find it. It caught a fair amount of attention.

Cast bullet manuals ( lyman ) will have ALL the load data that TxTrout will be looking for, giving him many options.
Same with the campfire archives.

Best of luck on your quest.. sounds to me to be a good one...and fun one.

I've pulled the 220gr cast bullet trick myself (Lyman #311284) but admittedly not with 4350. I used H4831, a caseful right up to the base of the bullet. Accuracy was ok in a Savage M1899, kind of "minute of apple", certainly plenty good for woods loafing with venison in mind. In my Winchester 54 it did its own bragging, I didn't have to open my mouth. Both are twisted 1-12". (The Savage is for sure, the 54 might be 1-10" I forget.) Velocity nipped hard on the heels of 2000fps - 1850 fps or thereabouts. Not too shabby when you consider that the old .303 Savage load was a 190 at 2000fps out of a longish rifle barrel, and the .30-40 Krag was 220 grains at 2000fps - and both of them made their bones as decidedly good medicine for most of what prowls North America.

I just ordered the Lyman cast bullet book.

Off the top of my head I was just thinking that the 200+gn bullets would be too long for good stability since heavier is usually longer. Actually someone at Hornady said he thought that their 190 Sub-X would work with a 30-30, but perhaps not at subsonic-ish speeds.

220gn at 1900/2000fps would be noticable in recoil.

I thought that they improved the metal for the Model 64. It perhaps I'm thinking of something else so it would handle stouter cartridges.

Here’s a cheap alternative:

Thank you, Pappy. Those Berrys bullets are cheaper. I have forgotten about them. I've looked at them for pistol , but didn't even think about for rifle. The 180 gn for the BO might also be about perfect for me.

Cast them from softer alloy. A flat nose if you can but 8-12 bhn will flatten a bit and kill well. .310 or so on size.

Picture of the project. Hope to get the metal work and new stocks worked out this winter. Will also be wearing a smaller low power scope by then too. Once I figure out what I want to put on it.

I'm seriously thinking about this becoming a 30-30 Improved. So, while there are varing opinions on the benefits of improving a 30-30. What is your experience?

I also have a much nicer 219 single shot in 30-30 with the 26" barrel that might get the AI treatment instead as I work on 125 grainish spire style bullet loads for it.

For as another forum member calls TX deer, "goats". , I really shouldn't need much more. Looking at H223 CFE powder loads data, and the long barrel, I would be looking at about 2700fps. The people that have used the data are getting about 2500 with a 20" barrel and a standard chamber and very low standard deviation velocity. So it looks promising. Was originally thinking about Varget, but I'm now intrigued by H223.

As with many things, just a project and problem that I really don't need to solve, but I'm intrigued by it...

So as you can tell, I have two diverging paths for my 30-30s.

I don’t see an advantage to an AI subsonic barrel, you won’t need the extra case capacity and with the relatively low pressures standard case life will be fine. For the high-velocity version the AI will give you a 100+ fps more at the same pressures.

I’ve taken several deer with subsonic loads in my Contender carbine in .32-20 using the Sierra 220 RN. Launched at <1100 fps they create devastating wounds with total penetration in most cases. That barrel has a 1:10” twist, a slower twist may not stabilize them.


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Interesting. How is case life with that little beastie? Some guys I know in the Schuetzen single shot game have rifles chambered for .32-20 (and sometimes .30-20, based on the same case) and shoot long heavy bullets for 100yds., and shorter but still heavier than normal .32-20 bullets for 200 yards (in an effort to stay barely super-sonic out to that distance). While results are better than fair, the main complaint I hear is that case life sucks a bit. The thin brass doesn't stand up to many repeated loadings. Not personal experience mind you, just what I'm told. I've been contemplating doing the same thing with a spare Ballard action I have but don't want to if brass life is short - as like now when .32-20 brass is kinda scarce.

Yeah there ya go… souped up thurty thurty. Wonder how much better it can be ? Stay tuned ladies. 🤣

yeah defiantly some of the projects are QUEEF !!

Do you have a load manual ? if so there's plenty in there !