Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Custom Build Questions

My son is looking at getting his first custom rifle put together. This will be his "do-all" rifle for some time moose, elk, deer, bear, antelope.
Mine are built on Defiance actions, but I have no experience with them post buy out so what else is good? Looking for the following:
1. 30 caliber magnum
2. Sub 7 pound bare rifle
3. 22-24" barrel
4. Magazine capacity of 3 or more

What can be done? I know what I would do, but I'd like to see some ideas that I wouldn't have thought of.

Since ding dong bought Defiance the prices are retarded.
I'd either shop for a used 700 or one of the 1000 dollar clones.
Keep it simple
300 win mag.
In a mag I prefer a 24 inch barrel .. hate giving up free velocity.
Stock to suit you.
dave

I don’t imagine a 7lb magnum would be a picnic to shoot. For that weight I would shoot a mild 7mm but it’s his money and his shoulder. Does he need SS? Will he be a reasonable man and realize 95 percent of all the game he will ever shoot in his life will likely be killed at less than 200 yards? A lot of people convince themselves a magnum answers all questions. Perhaps a year after f toting a Kimber Ascent in that caliber would give him a chance to decide if that is really the solution. There has been a lot of ink spilled over the years about the 30 06 for good reason. I am partial to Winchesters and Mausers. Properly set up with a good barrel they will generally shoot better than most people are capable of shooting. Hopefully it’s a fun project for him!

My old M700 KS .300 Win Mag checked all of those boxes. It was 6.75 pounds bare, and a kicker.

I heard that Defiance will be lowering prices, will have to wait to see if that's true...

That’d be a good thing. I’d like to see the CRF and 3 pos safety come back.

I know you asked for "custom", and I understand the desire for exactly what you want, but there are a lot of off the shelf options now that a person can consider.

The Havak Element if he wants sub 7 lbs.

The Havak PH2 if he thought 7.2 lbs (in long action mag) wasn't to heavy.

Both are available with 3 round magazines, in various mag chamberings, and 22" (Element) and 26" (PH2) barrel lengths.

Still, I understand if he's set on a custom.

I'd like to see them bring back their Mutant action. They were gearing up to do that when they were sold.

Check out the Classic action by Defiance, there selling for $990. Looks a lot like the AnTi action.

BAT Vampire action (pricey but a VERY GOOD action)

300 PRC or 300 Win Mag

24" barrel (Krieger, Bartlein, or Benchmark)

BDL style bottom metal (usually 1 round in chamber & 3 down)

McMillan stock light as you can get for caliber


Probably gonna be heavier than what you stated....all depends on component choices.

What was that Mike?

If your looking for a custom action for under 1,000 then my top 3 are KaugerSST 950.00 nitrided thats a very good deal. Kelbys and Mac Bros EVO. I like nitrided actions only thing I didn't like about the EVO Mac bros recommended to me not to nitride there action.
I believe AL Nyhus thought they were a good action for the price.
If I was looking at upper end Custom Bat or Borden.
I would also be looking at a break, I tried to shoot my 30-28 Nos without one it was brutal.

The Mutant is/was their single shot action designed for tube gun chassis such as Gary Eliseo makes. He told me they had mailed him one out of the blue to verify the specs before machining another run. That was right before they were bought out by the new owner.

.30 caliber Magnums and light weight don't often go well together even if you have a pretty good tolerance for recoil. Unless you have an exceptional stockmaker who can design a stock that alleviates some of the recoil, it will be brutal- to the point working up loads and practicing at the range isn't enjoyable. A little weight can be your friend here IMO.

A budget number would probably help in recommending an action or any other specs on a custom. Also, what other features is he particularly interested in? Does he want a CRF action or would a push feed like a Remington 700 style work for him? Does he want stainless for inclement weather hunting or would he prefer deep hot blue, or????? Wood stock or high end fiberglass? All of this leads back to where he wants to start... what kind of time frame is he looking at? A lot of customs are going to be a long term wait - especially if he wants to go with a custom action that may not be on the shelf immediately in the configuration he is looking for. This is where something like a Rem 700 or Win Model 70 donor can save some time and money toward a build. But be warned- don't shoot the donor!

Does he reload or would he be buying ammo off the shelf? Big difference in price for ammo between a 300 WM, a 300 Wby, and a 300 RUM... also, a huge difference in recoil and the larger you go, the less efficient the cartridges get for the components invested. Also, wildcat or rounds like the 300 RUM may not be on the shelf just everywhere you plan to hunt if it becomes necessary.

Were it me wanting a multi purpose rifle I would make one 700 magnum action all done up, with three Remage barrels. A 338 WM, A 300 WM and a 7mm RM. Put three scopes on it, one for each barrel, with Warne QC bases and Warne Tactical QC rings. Your son would have the best of all worlds without an unnecessary self thrashing when used on light game, plus extra punch for heavy stuff. The 7mm is very accurate with 140s at moderate velocities and the 338 with 225-250s is a real crusher.

Not a pipe dream, I currently have a switch barrel M-70 Classic in 338/7mm, that I built, pre-Remage. if I had a 300 WM barrel for it, it would have three barrels. Right now it has two Japanese scopes for it and it shoots sub 1/2" at 100 with either barrel, and corresponding scope, accuracy is better than needed for game hunting.

We had Kevin Weaver do a rifle sorta like what you're asking about. We used a SS M70 Classic action, 3.6" magazine box, had Kevin lighten the action (flute the bolt, relieve some steel on the action, short shank the barrel) We used a #2 Krieger 308 1-8 twist barrel, chambered it in the plain old 300 Win Mag, nestled it in a carbon shelled Echols Legend. I believe we finished the barrel at 23" and with the brake is about 24 1/2". The gun weighed a touch under 7 pounds finished and is about 8 1/2 with a NF 2.5x10 Compact on it. Shoots factory as well as handloads and is a great do it all sorta rifle. My brother and I wanted something that could do about anything, wasn't restricted to handloads, but could use the longer, pointier bullets as well, within the mag confines. It is sort of a boring build, but man, it's a good one. Oh, I think it was nitrided as well.





I don't have any good glamour shots of it, but this was the rifle that stoned this bull at 675 yards a few weeks after getting it from Kevin.

Just me, but I wouldn't want a 300 Win over 7lb's bare myself. Somewhere between 6 3/4 and 7 would be about right after optics are mounted, depending on what you put on it. I'd really think through all the bit and pieces with weight in mind, cause if you get a pig from the smith, you aren't going to really wanna carry it.

Appreciate all the thoughts. I have an excellent local smith that I trust a great deal. I have a 1200 yard range that I shoot from my front porch. The rifle will be used to shoot big game from as close to point blank as possible out to wherever he feels comfortable. I have taken game out to 860 yards with mine. The ability to do so completely changes the game in open country. We reload and aren't beginners, which is seldom evident when someone asks a question on the internet. I'm looking for ideas I haven't considered.

My thoughts are a carbon fiber AG Composite stock, PTG AICS detachable 5 round flush fit, 22-24" Proof Sendero, Bix n Andy trigger, on a Defiance Classic. Not sure on chambering. Looking at the 300 SAUM. I have a similar rifle in 7 SAUM and I'm a fan, but only 2 fit in the belly with BDL bottom. This rifle is a pussycat with 180s at 2800fps. My biggest conundrum is what the best 30 caliber magnum chambering is going to be. All of my long range rifles have a break and recoil very little. We also shoot suppressed and prefer a shorter barrel so they handle better.

So, with more information, what am I missing? 300 SAUM or go long action and try the 300 PRC? What is going to be better than what I've considered? Where am I all wrong?

Sounds amazing by default.

To save a little weight....go with a 300WSM. You can use the XM length actions from Defiance with their XM "BDL" kit....they feed slick as snot.

I don't think you're wrong at all, but I'd pick the bullet and speed you wanna launch it then pick the wrapper that more than adequately suits that purpose. I'd also look into buying a couple 100 of the best cases you can get for said chambering first, before having the rifle built. 300 WSM, PRC, Nosler, Win Mag are all pretty close, so I'd really look at the great brass out there and get what you can, then let that be the decider as far as which action you get. All the rest sounds like a great set up.

Excellent point on the brass.

Might be obvious but a lot of gunsmiths will chamber the barrel with the full length shank still on...which usually adds about 1/2 lb to the barrel weight. So maybe be sure to tell the builder to cut the shank as short as possible.

Exactly, I ask for a Fwt style shank myself these days. I don't need all the extra meat on that bone.

Unless you’re going to launch 230+ gr bullets, given your intended application, I’d be firmly in 7WSM or 7PRC mode shooting the 180 ELD for long stuff and practice, and the 145 LRX for crushing bone at close range (mainly to keep lead bits out of my meat). To beat it from an external ballistic perspective, you’ve got to go 230+ in .308” and burn a pile of powder.

More love for the WSM than I'm accustomed to seeing. The SAUM is king in these parts when talking long range rig. I have had no trouble finding ADG brass for my SAUM. Hadn't considered ensuring that the shank is good and short. Great advice. Perhaps the 7 SAUM is the better choice than a 30 cal magnum, bearing in mind the performance of 180s in it. That's the kind of knowledge/ experience I was looking for. Much appreciated!

A 7mm PRC or WSM with a 180 is splitting hairs with a 300WSM and 215- 220.
64 gr give or take with H4350, RL23 or RL16 isn't a pile of powder.

One other thought. If you're really trying to keep the weight down because you might run a suppressor (I run cans on all my guns so I'm always fighting weight), then Beretzs's barrel choice (#2) will save about *one pound* vs using a proof barrel.

I try to keep bare rifle weight to 6 lbs because dialable scopes are 20-26 oz, and most light cans are in the 10 ounce range (at least) with mounts. With a can I end up at 8-8.5lbs.

A 30 cal fluted short-shanked Rem sporter contour barrel at 21-22" comes in around 32 ounces. A #2 will be almost identical. Vs 48-50 ounces for the Proof, at least from what I can see.

All the barrel makers have the Rem Sporter contour programmed. As far as I can tell it's the best suppressor mounting contour bc it's light but the still muzzle finishes at .650 so it's got plenty of shoulder if you thread the muzzle 9/16x24. Most #2 contours finish closer to .600 or .610 at 22" so there's less meat to torque the suppressor mount against.

Personally I worry more about enough thickness around the crown so it doesn't bell the end of the barrel, in my opinion. 150 min.from the minor dia. A 9/16 has just over .500, 5/8 = .565.
In my opinion nothing less than .650 for 7mm and .670 for .30 cal if you can do a 9/16 thread.
If I was gonna get a .650 barrel threaded 5/8 which i prefer for more meat at the crown I would have it shouldered at the end of the barrel.

That works, too!

That depends on several factors. Wind speed? Distance? Etc. The more difficult the conditions, the more the 7mm shines and outpaces the .300. Like I said, if you step up to a large-bore .300 and 230+ gr bullets, the tables turn.

curious as to what a "large-bore .300" is ?

A figure of speech. I had an inkling someone would take issue with the intentional verbal inaccuracy.

A 7mm 180 Berger at 2950 and a 30 cal 215 at 2850 are virtually identical for wind drift at 1,000 yards. If your a energy person the 215 is about 150lbs better at 1,000.
The only thing the 7mm does is dial about 1.25 m.o.a less at 1,000 but who cares dialing is dialing.

Bullets matter. Swap the 180 Berg for a 180 ELD.

How many Hornys you see on a 1,000 yard line and how many Bergers? Theres a reason its just about all Bergers or custom.

Plenty of Hornady in the PRS games I play. I've shot a fair bit of Berger and a lot of Horn, and both have been very easy to tune. Speaking of splitting hairs...

How many in the BR and F-Class game?

One thing about Bergers is they have very consistent BCs bullet to bullet. I do know a few long range prone shooters who use Hornadys due to cost, but they do sort them. The F Class guys seem to all shot Bergers or Sierras here at the Ben Avery range at least.

My electronic target also shows, to me at least, that published BCs are often optimistic. Haven't noticed that with Bergers when comparing velocity readings at the 1000 yard target face.

I've been having them barreled with #5 contour Benchmarks with deep spiral flutes at 22". The exact same rifle with a Proof is lighter by about 12oz. Mine come in at 6# 2oz bare. That's with the AnTi action - seems like the Classic is within a couple oz.

We're planning an AK hunt for a couple years in the future and I'm leaning heavy toward the 30 cal magnum because I like the idea of heavy bullets for moose. The 7 SAUM with 180s is ample for elk, but I'd like a little more anchoring ability for moose near water. I've also come to the conclusion that elk and bigger critters require bullets that hold together better than the Bergers and ELD M type. They work just fine when everything goes right, but when it doesn't, lack of penetration creates a rodeo.

Sound logic

Nothing for nothing, and I don't hunt as far as some of you all, but the 175 ABLR's kicked out of the 7 Mashburn at 3090 was a very wicked bullet. I realize it isn't near the BC of others mentioned, but they shot great to 800 during pre season shooting and flat pounded 3 elk for us this year (between 490 and 605 yards), no elk moving under it's own power after the bullet touched down. We recovered 2 out of the three bullets during skinning. One elk took it through the front legs, while the others were rib shots at quartering angles and man, it was devastation left in their wake.

I am sure 10 other bullets would have done as well, but I felt a little better with the bonded bullet up close. All in my head maybe, but they worked as advertised.

That is light for those barrel contours! What stock are you using?

Interesting. I have seen the opposite, at least before Bryan Litz updated most of Berger’s BC values. In terms of Hornady, I saw the same thing with the older bullets, but the newer ELDs have matched published BC values very well, both when assessed via trajectory at distance as well as velocity loss via chrono. Again, IME.

Here's my 2 cents, I started shooting Bergers in 2005 for LR Hunting because my bullet of choice then the NP dropped like a rock after 500. Ive shot alot of Elk, deer and antelope with thec30 cal 215's and 140 6.5's and ive never had a failure they all have destroyed the vitals and basically DRT. They are consistent right out of the box and shoot better at LR than any other bullet I have tested against the Bergers. I do make sure all tips are not plugged with polishing compound. I am also am not in the camp of spinning them anymore than necessary by that I mean 10 twist for 215- 220, 6.5 - 8 twists for 140 and 7mm- 180, 9 twists. Ive heard all the the knocks on them but ive never seen it or heard from others i know of who shoot Bergers.
The only 2 bullet failures I've ever had were the Barnes when they first came out about 35 years ago a buddy and I tried them and him and I shot a deer 5 times before it died and all penciled through, later Barnes admitted they made those bullets out of 2 hard of copper. About 25 years ago I tried the Nos Balistic tips 140 with my wife's 7mm-08 and the bullet exploded on a WT ribs right behind the shoulder. That was a 6hr fiasco.
As far as moose with Bergers my Brother, Nephew and wife all shot really nice Yukon Moose with the 7mm 180 Bergers about 4 years ago and worked great even the guide was impressed with how they killed them..
Basically hit them were there suppose to go and theres plenty of bullets that will work, I just don't like leaving any accuracy on the table so to speak shooting LR

Sound logic, yes, but my experience has been that it doesn’t pan out in the real world until you step up to a much larger caliber. I believe JB has mentioned a couple of studies that bear this out, or arrive at a similar conclusion, at least.

If you want stopping power, whether in a .257” or a .308” bullet, pick a mono and crush bone in the vicinity of the CNS.

I was thinking the same myself.

And I’ve have 0 qualms about any moose with a good 7 and a good 175 bullet. The extra a 300 would give using equal bullets might take a lot to measure the difference in my opinion.

This, but we digress...

It is straight up wrong and disgusting to shoot moose with anything Hornady

Moose deserve far better than that

Sounds like a good option. I have 2 300wby magnums that weight 7 pounds on the nose. One an XTR sporter in a pacific research:


The other is a pre 64 model 70 in a Brown PoundR stock:



Scoped weight is 8 pounds.


The pre 64 holds 4 in the mag box.. That's how I'd roll. I could be talked out of the XTR, for the right price. The pre 64's I'm hanging on to for a while.

These rifles shoot pretty good, considering they are lightweight 300 magnums.

Is it the same as "high caliber" ? lol

Manner EH4 stock. Comes in at 6# 2.7 oz bare, according to the electronic scale. Those spiral flutes take off a TON of weight. With that said, the PROOF is still lighter.

I believe in logistics over ballistics (up to a point) so I’d start with the cartridge and work out from there. In a 24” barrel, the 30-06 will push a 180-grain bullet 2,800 fps. You’ll usually get five in the magazine, brass is common, and the barrel will last longer than with an overbore cartridge. 1:10 twist is standard, which works with long/heavy bullets.

Beyond that, I’d look at what kind of shooting your son anticipates: will he shoot standing in timber or prone in open country? What optics does he prefer? Will he shoot suppressed? What finished weight is he looking for? That should narrow your options.

The rifle shown below is a Model 70 Classic Sporter in 30-06 that has been pillar bedded into a Bansner stock. It’s 6.71 pounds without the Nightforce SHV 3-10 shown in this picture. For better long-range performance within the parameters you stated, I’d look at a 7mm cartridge.


Okie John

Rifle will be an all around - standing in timber or sloughs or prone on the prairie, antelope to moose and everything in between. Sub 7# finished weight on it. Will be scoped with a Leupold VX5 3-15x44. I would like to stay with a short action, but if the weight can be kept down, a long action wouldn't be out of the question. It will be shot suppressed or with a brake. I like the idea of a 30 caliber magnum, but the 7 SAUM would simplify the program if the same load shoots in both his rifle and mine (would be the same reamer). I prefer a 22" tube on a rifle that will have a suppressor on it, but acknowledge that a magnum round may need the extra 2" to optimize case capacity. I'm vacillating between 7mm and .308 magnums. If a guy goes long action, it would seem that the 300 PRC or the 300 Norma might be the ticket. In a short action, I lean toward the 7 SAUM. The discussion around the options and best choice of chambering have been very helpful and I much appreciate the discussion.