Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Predators and Varmints Set Up fer 'Yotes at Night?

On our farm, I've been shooting coyotes and feral cats during the day with a 12ga and #4 buckshot and an AR with 50gr V-Max's, and at night using a spotlight and truck headlights with just the 12ga. With the 12ga, day or night, I've killed both out to around 100yds and mortally wounded a few 'yotes out to about 125yds. With the AR in 5.56/.223 in daylight, DRT out to 400+/- (if I do my part right), and mortally wounded a couple of 'yotes out to a little over 500yds. There are several places where I can take shots to well over 600 to 700yds, but about 550 to 600yds is about as far as I want to go, right now.

BUT, let me make this clear, this is NOT just sport, but necessity. The coyotes and feral cats have already destroyed our bobwhite population (haven't heard a quail whistle in over two years now), and are well on their way to totally wiping out our turkeys, and the coyotes have noticeably reduced the deer population. But I'm reluctant to try poisoning them for several reasons, and I am NOT a trapper (no aversion to it, just don't have the skills or equipment).

I badly need to up my game for night hunting the coyotes. Been reading here about thermals, rifles and such. Going to have to quit hunting at night out of our vehicles because they've gotten wise to them. I've got ARs in 5.56/.223, 6.5 Grendel, and 7.62x39. Got bolts in .22 Hornet, .223, .22-250, .243, .250-3000, 6.5 Gren, and up. The .22-250 is out because it's a Win Coyote Heavy Varmint - weighs 11+ lbs.

I want to get a thermal to mount on either the .243 or the AR 6.5 Gren (probably the Gren, and use the .243 with standard scope to extend my range during daylight). I'd like to be able to bust 'yotes at night to at least 300 yds, but I know not to believe most of the advertising hype. My budget for a thermal is around $2500. Are there any at that price point that: #1) are reliable and durable, and #2) are able to, in the real world, in field conditions, accurately resolve and enable hits on coyotes at 300 yds (or more)?

TIA

I got a Thor 4 to put on my 24 Varmint upper, with a can. The can is not for suppression of nose but muzzle flash in the dark. The 24 Varmit is a necked down and blown out 6.8 SPC. Designed to shoot up to 6mm 105-110s in an AR-15 mag. You can check on the ATN site and the Mad Dog Weapons System site, the 6mm Mongoose is also one of their babies, uses LC 223 brass by design. I have both and the do shoot sub 1/2" at 100.

always be sure to check local rules and regulations for night hunting, that being said, this is my opinion on the matter; Don't go out at night looking for 300yd shots. I have had very much success during daytime hunting in the past. I have recently been easing my way into night hunting with my thermal and believe I have learned enough to give you a little advice, I love my AGM rattler. I have it mounted on a Bergara sidekick pistol in 223 wild. The gun was expensive, but the optic was under $1200 and I am more than happy with it. I do not believe most people need to be taking shots past 100 yds at night. I believe walking has been my key to success in predator hunting. walking in and just keep walking and calling on Low volume. call for 10 minute stands, stop calling, stay seated/standing, wait at least 5 more minutes then move further in. the guys on YouTube that just start slinging lead at night out past 100yds just worry me. if you can be 100% sure that you are perfectly aligned with the area and that area is large enough, get after it I guess. I will say though, just a few weeks ago a very avid gun writer shot a mule deer during the day along with another hunter and between the two of them they Swiss cheesed this deer and still there is know clear evidence as to who actually should take the deer. look up Backfire on you tube, he covers this well. Now keep in mind that happened during the day. with a professional hunter as part of the mix. and the deer was wearing a collar! we should all be vary wary of night hunting and understand the responsibility we take on in doing so.


All that said I highly recommend the AGM rattler. They are awesome and I bought the cheapest one as it is also the lightest. you can detect far enough out to get ready for the shot and clearly id at 150. that all depends on conditions though, wind, temp, humidity, etc. All thermals suffer the same. when you are watching videos on you tube they are in perfect conditions for thermal imaging.

While a Thermal scope is great, a thermal monocular (to me) is a more critical part of the puzzle for hunting at night.
Spotting your prey is a lot easier and safer with a monocular than using your rifle scope double duty.
My recommendation is to save up a little more and get an AGM TM15-384 and an AGM Adder TS35-384.
The TM15-384 is the cheapest monocular with a nice field of view, big display and it can be helmet mounted.
My backup rig is topped with an AGM Adder TS35-384, has a 3x base mag for taking longer shot's and because it's a tube style scope, it can be mounted on AR's and bolt rifles without crazy high cheek risers.
I've used that combo for years of hard hunting in the mountains of NY without fail.
I would also get a call or hunt over bait piles and take shots as close as you can.
A thermal optic for shooting long range is going to run almost four times your pain threshold.


SJC

Agree 100% to get a thermal scanner first. As mentioned the AGM taipan in either 15-384 or 19-384 is a great entry level scanner or the iRay cabin 19. You will use the scanner 95% of the time if not more. If your budget cannot support both a thermal scanner and scope I recommend looking at a NV scope. They are easier to identify animals and priced much cheaper. Take a look at the newer Rix Tourer T20 NV at $600. With any NV, an upgraded IR light will make it way better.

Rattler is good along with Thor -4 just make sure its 384 or higher. When comes to thermals you get what you pay for, buy cheap get cheap and lacks in many areas. Forget about a spotter thermal and just get a Bogpod rifle rest and scan with scope so that way a coyote comes into view you on it and ready, spotter scope just one more thing to carry and get in the way.

If you really want to put a dent in the coyote population, buy a couple dozen traps and learn how to use them. Those traps are hunting coyotes 24/7. I know you said you don’t have the expertise or equipment. Both are attainable.

On thermal, I’ve done some with a friend who has Pulsar monoculars and a rifle scope.they cost about $2000, and $5000 respectively. He started his thermal hunting with optics that cost substantially less, and said they were expensive junk.

Good luck on your coyote control.

Trapping cool but most states have a daily trap check which costs gas money, as you have to check them weather one in it or its empty. Then you also have to deal with weather, rain, snow, mud and freezing ground ect.

Using a rifle on a tripod as a scanner gets real old real quick. When a guy has to scan a minimum of 180 degrees, it makes much more sense to have a scanner so that you can stand in one spot and rotate your body while standing still, instead of walking a half circle back and forth and back and forth until you spot a coyote. Heck, some of my spots, I have to scan dang near 360 degrees and I'm sure many others do too.
A guy spends 95% of his time on stand scanning. Makes much more sense to use a dedicated scan tool. They are light and really don't weigh much, so it's really a no-brainer to use them. Just have your rifle set up on a tri-pod, and once you spot a target, then simply get on the rifle until the shot.

Im guessing you never used a Bogpod? You can scan 360 with a scoped rifle no different than using a spotter. and if you call with a partner then less area you have to scan as other will cover the rest. Scanners are expensive as well. On a humid night you will see less with a cheap scanner so what did you gain. money better spent on having another thermal for another rifle.

I personally have never scanned with my gun but have hunted with guys who have and after the first night out they were sick of it. I have a decent setup for tripod (rt90c with RRS leveling base) and I still would not want to scan with the rifle. It is also a lot of movement to use the gun walking potentially a circle around your tripod vs standing in a single position behind your tripod/gun and using a monocular. The only movement is my head/torso with the ability to see 360*.

For thermal I'm running an ATN scanner and scope. Are they incredible? No, but they work. Coyotes are worth little or nothing so I'm not spending 3 times the price. I do have a night vision scanner and scope. Bought a Sight Mark Wraith 4-32x 50 which is a fine piece of equipment. NV scanner is a Bushnell Equinox. It works, not well but I didn't pay retail for it. Using a Bogpod but not for scanning with the rifle. I'm usually watching at least 180 degrees and scanning with the rifle just doesn't work. Too much shuffling around to stay behind the scope when compared to a scanner.

Sure but when you scan with a rifle and a coyote shows up you already on it, vrs. the scramble of putting scanner down and then going to the rifle. And scanning with rifle on Bogpod not the big of a deal if you get out and hunt more than one night a month. If a guy can't rotate around 360 with a bogpod then a coyote probably heard, you walk in to begin with. LOL

If it works for you scanning with the gun that’s great but I’d rather save my back and limit movement. I hunt 1-2 times a week and have no issue transitioning from the scanner to the gun. Most scanners have less base mag and bigger fov, catch then coming in quicker and you can scan an area quicker. How often do you shoot a coyote within the first 5 seconds of detection? The time to transition won’t limit your chance at getting on the animal.

Exactly. My scanner is 4-8, kinda wish I had bought 3-6 or maybe even 2-4. I've had several "where the he$$ did you come from moments" but they still caught the lead.

Maybe this

Just remember to shout
"FREEZE GOPHER !"

Maybe the physically challenged should use two scanners then just go home after you see one. I take it not many use a Bogpod either.

You know, I joined this site just a few days ago. But if this is the kind of rude, arrogant BS that goes on here, I probably don't need it after all. I'm betting nobody here really appreciates your slander, put downs and just plain crappy Bertha better than you attitude.

Oh sorry if I hurt your feelings! Best get use to it happening to you as a coyote going to bust your ass most days and make you look foolish and then when you may think you got a handle on it one going to bust your ass again. Pick yourself up, knock off the dirt and go on or just lay there and kick the ground and cry about it. LOL
.

I wouldn't use a bogpod if given to me. They are junk and not very stable. If you've ever used anything of quality you will agree.

Physically challenged or never used one. LOL So what would be better choice if you have to stand up on stand? Almost forgot, you can't scan 360 if you are sitting on the ground.

Anyone that's truly spent significant time using the rifle to scan quickly figures out a way to somehow afford a handheld scanner to pair with a scope.
Not to mention that sweeping the entire countryside with a loaded rifle isn't exactly deemed safe handling of a firearm.

Handheld waste of money bought a second thermal instead. Its plenty safe as long as you not hunting in town or in farmyard. LOL But hey you need a scanner then have at one. LOL

Nothing wrong with another scope but you can only use one at a time - unless you're using the second one as a scanner, then that's a good plan and you've got a backup scope to boot....That's what my hunting partner does.

I prefer LRF in both scanner and scope - the scanner gets used beyond just coyote hunting.

I hunt at least a few hours every night of furbearer season here. things I have learned:

1) scanners are great tools
2) scanning with your rifle is retarded, and I see no benefit to it instead of using a combination of a handheld scanning light and thermal scanner. my scanning light and thermal are on lanyards just like my caller remote, and its nothing to drop them to my side to get on the rifle or pick the slung shotgun off of the deathgrip as well as not having to deal with the unnecessary increased movement of swinging around a tripod.

I thought it - you took it a step further and put it in writing.

uum you still have to move if using a scanner and you can't scan 360 if you are sitting down. scanner held by hand which means less support when looking through it must really screw up your vision. LOL I may scan with extra scope before I walk into a stand, but I won't use one on stand, that's retarded if you do. You gain nothing by using both. Oh what's the I.D range on a scanner by the way 400 yards. LOL And if you not using a scanner with 384x 288 you not seeing [bleep]. And worse yet if you live in a hi humidity part of the country.

Quote; deathgrip Unquote: I believe Yeahkkyle said those are junk! LOL

Also I been a member since 2006 so tell me something I don't know.

I have 2 friends who have bogpods and they all agree they wish they would've spent a little extra for something better. Most immediately ditch the hog saddle for a decent ball head. I have panned with their guns but never shot off them. I run an Innorel RT90C with RRS leveling base, had a RRS Anvil-30 previously. About as solid as you are going to get without spending $800 for just a tripod. It makes a difference.

I wouldn't recommend anything less than 384 whether its a scanner or scope. I use a 640 scanner and scope and have no problem identifying 400+.

Movements with a handheld are much, much more minimal than swinging behind a rifle mounted on a tripod. using a scanner immediately before we start the call allows us to better tailor a calling strategy ( type, volume etc) to that particular stand. and who the fugg sits down on a stand at night? keep telling folks you don;t know [bleep] about night hunting without actually saying it.

Sooooo, you carry an extra scope just for grins?

400 yards? Laffin'....Not sure what equipment you're using but 400+ isn't a problem.


Tell us you're trolling without telling us you're trolling.

You kidding right? Lots of guys sit but they also have a area to do that, you need to get out more often and mingle with others. I use Bogpog guessed you missed that. LOL Tailor strategy? You kidding again right? If you been calling awhile, you should know what sounds work and what sounds don't and volume. LOL Full volume don't need any less volume, start stand with same sounds regardless if you have a coyote out in front hunting.

Sooooo, you carry an extra scope just for grins?

400 yards? Laffin'....Not sure what equipment you're using but 400+ isn't a problem. No I don't carry extra scope, I always bring two rifles along with thermal incase friend shows up or I get in a more open area. Well if positive I.D. range with a scanner more than 400 yards money would of been better spent on another thermal, just saying.

this is why the government owns us and we have such little freedom. Jesus help us.

sorry to hear that. Last ten years we been gaining our freedoms back because we stick together as a whole. Night light laws passed, use of a suppresser passed, Use of thermal passed, use of electric callers passed, Had two wolf seasons. Don't have to have guns cased when traveling the countryside.

You may have to double check your last sentence.
“…. or traveling to or from a site the person intends to hunt lawfully that day or has hunted lawfully that day”
And as you printed may not enter a town with a population of 2500 or more at anytime with a long gun that is not unloaded, cased entirely or unloaded and secured in the trunk. Exception being bringing it home unloaded after purchase.
That’s a far cry from carrying long guns openly in a vehicle at any time.

Osky

I live in town with less than 500 and I'm hunting soon as I back out of the driveway. too bad about big city folks or those that live next to a school.

I am not a dedicated coyote hunter. Rather a guy that has found that the woods come alive at night no matter what the temperature.

Thermal is a game changer.

My current set up is a Sig Cross in 308, Suppressed with a Nomad 30 Dead Air, Bering Optics Super Yoter.

For a couple years I used my Bering Optics Super Hogster as a scanner.

The SH has a 2.9 base mag. The SY has a 3.0 base Mag IIRC.

I've now lost several animals that I shot and were not recovered, and trying to identify/find an animal in thick brush with a 3x thermal optic is a non-starter.

I ended up buying the AGM Taipan 15-384 for the purpose of tracking up close. If I could have found a 1x Optic with a minimum of 384 resolution I would have got that instead.

It is amazing how much I employ that optic.

Most of my shots with thermal is between 30 and 160 yds, so the 1.5 base mag and distance to target suit me to a tee. I have good Leica 10 x 40 and 10 x 50 binocs. The thermal scanner has just about replaced those for spotting, even during the day. Nothing that has a body temperature above ambient hides. In fact the image just "Pops" out at ya.

I ended up leaving it at camp last Saturday evening. As most of my hunting is done from a stand, it became particularly noticeable how handicapped I was not being able to hold the scanner in my hand vs. wielding an 8+ lb. rifle in a 4' x 6' blind.

Here is a vid of the Taipan Thermal Scanner in use while using the Hot Tracking mode.

MY grandson was getting ready to be stationed in Antarctica for six months so we took him on a thermal hog hunt for his birthday



and the white object in the distant foreground......




IMHO, a thermal scanner and a thermal scope each having of a minimum resolution of 384 are the perfect combo for night hunting.

ya!

GWB

Nice hog right there.

I've started keeping my thermal scanner in my backpack, even on deer hunts as it certainly beats binoculars at early dawn and late dusk. I've watched several good bucks that were feeding just outside of the legal-shooting / naked-eye-visible window. Also handy for picking up deer in your lanes as you hike in before daylight or for scanning for bedded deer that you might not pick up with your naked eye / day optics.

From last Thursday night. It was cold, misting rain and a bit of fog. I shot this vid hand held, with the thermal scanner. Young buck is +/- 70 yds.

One can definitely see the degradation in the image between 1.5x and 6x and 12x.




ya!

GWB

How far was hog from you in Vid.?

Hard to say, as depth perception/distance with thermal is suspect unless one has a laser range finding optic. The Taipan's specs say that the unit has a detection range of 710 meters, on a 6' object, so I would believe it would be a lesser distance than that as the critter was detected. I asked my son who has an AGM optic that includes a laser range finder, but he indicated he did not range the total distance but said that the shot was between 130 and 150 yds. I was in the high rack vehicle and was not involved in the stalk, but IIRC It was a good 15 to 20 minutes from the time the stalk commenced until we heard the report of the suppressed rifle and the scream of a wounded pig. Having hunted this ranch on numerous occasions, its not unusual to walk up 300 to 400 yds to get into position for a shot.

For the most part, I shoot over bait at known distances, my longest shot to date has been +/- 160 yds.

Best,

GWB

PS: My main rest is a Carbon Fiber Bog Pod Death Grip, which I use with various rifles. I also employ a carbon fiber tripod with ball head and Arca-Swiss adapter plate on my main rifle, the Sig Cross. Due to the nature of the terrain, taken with the style of hunting I do, I very seldom have the need for more than a 270 degree arc.

I just bought the Bog Deathgrip Infinite CF tripod, well actually I bought the aluminum version first and thought it was pretty heavy but it’d be okay. Then I walked into a store the next day that had the carbon fiber version set up for display and I couldn’t believe how much lighter it was so I bought it.

I just installed Arca plates on two of my guns, getting rid of the clamp head saves another 1.5 pounds. Any issues you’ve seen with the Arca mounts?

geedubya what I'm getting at is if the range was 130-150 yards the thermals positive I.D. range isn't very good for that thermal. That pig was still a blur. something to think about if you ever get another thermal. I don't know how post pictures here but if you send a private message, we can exchange cell phone number and then text you what you should be seeing.

TWR finaly got a tripod? Great now you can toss the spotter scope.

Over the years I"ve employed various types of shooting sticks, bi-pods and tripods.



I like the Bog Pod Death Grip when using multiple rifle platforms.



Typically my rifles with traditional stocks are not set up for an Arca Swiss or Monfrotto type attachment.



In addition I usually am hunting both before daylight in the AM and after dark in the PM,and while stand hunting having two rifles is not a problem. With the DGBP i can easily switch between platforms.


Although I do it from time to time, running and gunning at night with Thermal is not my usual style of hunting.



When I do, the lighter CF tripod with the ball head and Arca Swiss mount is the way to go IMHO, and you have 3 dimensional adjustment.

There are two perceived problems from my point of view with the Arca Swiss mount that I've encountered.


First is making sure that the plate/ball head locking mechanism is on the left where I can reach it, lock it in or make adjustments




Second, when I am on the move in the dark, it can be a problem mounting and securing the plate in the base,

What I have taken to doing when stalking is to take the rifle out of the tripod,while attached to the stem, then carry the tripod in one hand and the rifle in the other. I find that to be easier to re-attach in the dark.



Neither of which are significant as long as I pay attention.

ya!


GWB

Happy to take you up on your offer. Never can tell when one may discover a friend they have not met yet.

Anywho, just to clarify,

in the first 'Hot Tracking' vid, the white dot in the foreground, which was the hog, the distance could have been from anywhere up to the limit of the detection range. I hesitate to quantify the distance as I do not know definitively.

The distance from where i took the vid to the pig in the foreground definitely was not 130-150 meters. The shot distance was 130-150 yds.

The Taipan unit was purpose bought. My thermal scopes have a base mag of 3x. I would have preferred a 1X base mag for "blood tracking" (For lack of a better term). The Taipan had the lowest base mag at 1.5x that I could find that had a minimum of a 384 sensor and 12 micron sensitivity. All the 640 units i could find had a higher base mag, which IMHO defeated my purpose of being able to use the optic for finding critters that were not DRT while searching in heavy cover.



At this time I am supremely happy with the optic.

Ya!

GWB

So you scan while driving with a scope mounted on the rifle or use the spare scope as a scanner not mounted on a rifle ?
I find it much easier to scan with a scanner, then transition to the rifle for the shot, just like I do while hunting in the daytime using a binocular.



SJC

Thanks GW, a buddy of mine shared the same concerns of attaching it in the dark. I walk a lot and while I carry some extra weight like the can and caller, those are purposeful. Going with the Arca mount shaves a little weight.

I’ll have to try it a few times and just see I guess.

No intentions of tossing the scanner, it serves a purpose.

The tripod is dual purpose, it’ll hold my rifle while I hold my shotgun on some stands and standing is most always better where I hunt than sitting. You just simply see more.

i only sit on daytime stands in hilly country

Shoots100 I scan soon as I'm set up on stand with scoped rifle mounted in tri-pod. I know where my coyotes are and at times set up with one right in front of me out mousing. I see it and gun is already on it no switching around and carrying extra gear, bad enough dragging dam bipod along. LOL But like said I do have extra scope along to use for scanning if I wanted too prior, but I don't. Day time stands I will scan with bino's but only at end of a stand or if I see a Peaker off in distance. Day time calling and nighttime calling two different games and played differently.

But hey if a guy wants to spend money on a scanner rather than another scope or have to carry it as well then have at it.

I'm constantly scanning from the get go and have a thermal scanner or a bino in my chest rig at all times.
I've predator hunted day & night all over the country over the last 30+ years and I can count on my one hand the amount of hunters I hunted with at night that didn't have some type of scanner.
Those that didn't quickly took my offer to use my backup scanner and purchased a scanner soon after.
I don't just have a backup scope, I have a backup scope on a rifle all dialed in and ready to go and have had to use it many times or have loaned it to friends that have had issues with their rigs.
While I disagree with you about scanners, if your content to hunt without one than so be it, but I wouldn't want to hunt without one.

SJC

Let's see

What is the definition of a "provocateur"

Could it be......

someone who intentionally causes arguments or discussions, or intentionally makes other people feel angry, offended, or uncomfortable.


Quein Sabe,

GWB

im just saying, more for the new guys and not old guys set in there ways. Young guys starting out can't afford all that crap, keep it simple and they do just fine. some things and not a must have.

Same.

I don't know a single human that's done even a modicum of night coyote hunting that's not seen value in a separate scanning device.
Maybe I just don't personally know any mentally-challenged hunters?

SKane if you know your area and how your coyotes move and where they are you don't have to waste time with scanner. You ever go out and just locate coyotes? I also hunt more open country and the coyotes are down in thick stuff, that's where they feed and live, I call them out of there. no big deal.

Hell, I figured that out before I even started calling at night with a thermal. And do not regret the choice now, not one bit.