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ELDX bullets and close shots #18929159 11/15/23 Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,854 Smoky Mountains, TN bwinters OP Campfire Outfitter OP bwinters Campfire Outfitter Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,854 Smoky Mountains, TN What has been the collective experience with the ELDX bullet at close range - say 30-40 yards being launched around 2900-3000? I called Hornady to get a bit of info on the 175 ELDX loads and discussing what I had in mind, he recomended against the ELDX for shots at that range and velocity (7PRC for reference). He opined it would not give an exit - which I'd expect - but did not give a glowing review of encounters with shoulder bones at that distance/velocity. Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18929245 11/15/23 Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,854 Smoky Mountains, TN bwinters OP Campfire Outfitter OP bwinters Campfire Outfitter Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,854 Smoky Mountains, TN I'd also add the 175 gr Accubond LR to the inquiry on close shots at 2900-3000. Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18929292 11/15/23 Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 8,235 Likes: 1 PA Teeder Campfire Outfitter Teeder Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 8,235 Likes: 1 PA My only "experience" was in Newfoundland a couple of years ago. Two different guys in camp, both using ELDX's in 30 cal, 1 in a .308 and the other .30-06. I think they were 178's??? The guy with the .308 shot a caribou at about 60 yards, quartering away. The bullet made it to the 1st lung. It ran a long ways before dropping. The bullet was in pieces. Horrible penetration. I saw the bullet pieces. The guy with the .30-06 shot a nice bull moose at about the same distance, broadside. According to the guide, the first shot was well placed in the lungs. He had enough time to empty his gun and get into his pack for more ammo, before it dropped. None of the other bullets were placed very well after the bull started moving. Later examination showed the first bullet barely made it into the first lung and was in many pieces. I saw the pieces. I'll never use that bullet. Ready to get flamed.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18929357 11/15/23 Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 17,247 Likes: 1 Northern Louisiana JPro Campfire Ranger JPro Campfire Ranger Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 17,247 Likes: 1 Northern Louisiana I'd say to use them like you are shooting an SST or old-school 1980's-1990's NBT. My limited experience with them at sub-2700fps impact velocity has shown them to not be serious penetrator. They are not advertised as being such, so no real issue for me if I know that when I pick my shot. A 2900-3000fps impact can put a lot of stress on nearly any cup/core bullet. Now with even more aplomb

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18929431 11/15/23 Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,004 Likes: 3 Winchester, WY USA M memtb Campfire Outfitter memtb Campfire Outfitter M Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,004 Likes: 3 Winchester, WY USA Originally Posted by bwinters What has been the collective experience with the ELDX bullet at close range - say 30-40 yards being launched around 2900-3000? I called Hornady to get a bit of info on the 175 ELDX loads and discussing what I had in mind, he recomended against the ELDX for shots at that range and velocity (7PRC for reference). He opined it would not give an exit - which I'd expect - but did not give a glowing review of encounters with shoulder bones at that distance/velocity. I can testify only of the 143 from a CM @ 30 yrds……😂😂😂! memtb Last edited by memtb; 11/15/23. You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel “I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18929437 11/15/23 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Not the ELD-X, but I’ve seen the 180 ELD-M impact a bull moose on a frontal shot at ~30 m. The bullet was launched at 2930 fps at the muzzle. Impact was above the brisket, and the bullet penetrated about 4’ of moose before exiting at the rear of the rib cage. Moderate wound channel and the bull had 4 hooves in the air about as fast as I could blink after the shot. Don’t see that all that often with moose. I was quite impressed with both the bull’s reaction and the bullet performance.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18929469 11/15/23 Joined: Feb 2023 Posts: 148 Canada 8MMX57JS Campfire Member 8MMX57JS Campfire Member Joined: Feb 2023 Posts: 148 Canada This was from last year. Quote Had the opportunity to partake in a moose hunt last week. My friend got the chance to test his load on a bull and thought id share some of the details. 300 WIN Mag 24" inch barrel 1:10" twist rate 220gr ELD-x MV: 2800 FPS Shot took place at 200 yards, bullet hit center shoulder and penetrated to the off side. 2 Shoulders taken out. Very violent entry, almost the size of a tennis ball, lots of damage. Core and jacket stayed together and ended up weighing 120grs. About 55% weight retention.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Jordan Smith #18929485 11/15/23 Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA B beretzs Campfire Ranger beretzs Campfire Ranger B Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Not the ELD-X, but I’ve seen the 180 ELD-M impact a bull moose on a frontal shot at ~30 m. The bullet was launched at 2930 fps at the muzzle. Impact was above the brisket, and the bullet penetrated about 4’ of moose before exiting at the rear of the rib cage. Moderate wound channel and the bull had 4 hooves in the air about as fast as I could blink after the shot. Don’t see that all that often with moose. I was quite impressed with both the bull’s reaction and the bullet performance. That's pretty serious penetration really on a moose. I like the ELD's myself but I'd never have expected it to stay on point like that for 4 ft of moose. I have used the 147's a decent amount around the 2700 start speed and they've acted great on deer. I used the 212 on a bull started at 2700 from an 06 at 390 yards and it crushed both front legs and was found on the hide. I think a close shot with the ELD X when started above 2700 might be really messy myself. That is only my opinion and Jordan proves they work there. I'd love to blast one into jugs up close just to see what comes out, knowing it isn't an animal, but it is a good stress test on the bullet. I don't have crap for animal data of ABLR's up close, other than a bunch I [bleep] into jugs at 25 yards. They'd lose about 50-60% and the expanded base was recovered which, is so similar to the 175's we just recovered out of 2 elk shot at 595 and 605 yards. So I ain't answered anything, but those are my experiences with both. I do have a feeling the 175 has enough mass to get deep enough, whereas the example of the 178's on moose and caribou are kind of the light end of the thinly jacketed bullets to perform real well. 212 from the elk at 390 from an 06 212 at 25 yards in jugs 210 ABLR from a 300 Wby Last edited by beretzs; 11/15/23. Semper Fi

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18929506 11/15/23 Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA B beretzs Campfire Ranger beretzs Campfire Ranger B Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA I forgot to mention, I sold my Ridgeline 300 RUM to one of my great buddies at work. He has 4 bulls to it's credit since I sold it, all using the Hornady 220 ELD's. He hasn't found a bullet, but he doesn't dig around like some of us animals. He does mention no elk has MOVED after the bullet touched down. I was worried about it when we first started setting his gun up. Apparently it was an unfounded worry cause he is pounding elk with them, from 150 to 400 yards. Semper Fi

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots beretzs #18929517 11/15/23 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Originally Posted by beretzs Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Not the ELD-X, but I’ve seen the 180 ELD-M impact a bull moose on a frontal shot at ~30 m. The bullet was launched at 2930 fps at the muzzle. Impact was above the brisket, and the bullet penetrated about 4’ of moose before exiting at the rear of the rib cage. Moderate wound channel and the bull had 4 hooves in the air about as fast as I could blink after the shot. Don’t see that all that often with moose. I was quite impressed with both the bull’s reaction and the bullet performance. That's pretty serious penetration really on a moose. I like the ELD's myself but I'd never have expected it to stay on point like that for 4 ft of moose. I have used the 147's a decent amount around the 2700 start speed and they've acted great on deer. I used the 212 on a bull started at 2700 from an 06 at 390 yards and it crushed both front legs and was found on the hide. I think a close shot with the ELD X when started above 2700 might be really messy myself. That is only my opinion and Jordan proves they work there. I'd love to blast one into jugs up close just to see what comes out, knowing it isn't an animal, but it is a good stress test on the bullet. I agree, Scott. I never would have expected such performance from the ELD-Ms before I started using them, being standard tipped C&C bullets, but I have been impressed by the terminal performance of the high-SD models. Again, my experience is mainly with the ELD-M, not the ELD-X. Quite frankly, I was pretty surprised/impressed with the performance of the 180 impacting at ~2900 on that frontal shot on the bull moose. Wasn’t expecting that kind of penetration, for sure. But after seeing a bunch of critters fall to the 147 and 180 ELD-M, from about 30-500 m, I’ve come to expect deep penetration, moderate wound channels, and 1.25-1.5” exits. Surprisingly, I haven’t caught one yet, but that is likely due to the type of shot I typically take with the ELD-M, versus something like a LRX, which I’m much more willing to send through bone and tough angles. My recovery rate of the 127 LRX has been higher than the 147 ELD in the last few years. In fact, I caught another 127 LRX this year on a slightly quartering away shot on a big MD buck. The bullet entered near the 3rd-from-rear rib and crashed into the offside humerus, where it chipped some bone and stopped. It fairness, it was the largest bodied deer I’ve ever seen on the ground.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18929535 11/15/23 Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA B beretzs Campfire Ranger beretzs Campfire Ranger B Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA That's great intel. You could almost talk me into trying one in the Mashburn.. Semper Fi

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18929602 11/15/23 Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 2,238 Wet Side, WA P Puddle Campfire Regular Puddle Campfire Regular P Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 2,238 Wet Side, WA I recall the first season I was using the 143 gr. ELD-X on elk. This was during Covid when dang near anything bonded was unobtainium. I had an elk quartering-to right around 60 yards in the dark woods. Because of the ELD-X I chose to just stare at 'em until it walked off. Next day however, I got a nice 150 yard shot tight behind the leg crease. No drama ensued. It's you and the bullet, and all the rest is secondary.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18929700 11/15/23 Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 23,510 Likes: 11 C Calvin Campfire Ranger Calvin Campfire Ranger C Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 23,510 Likes: 11 Only at creed speeds. You would think there would be enough ass in a 175 to do the job even if the front half blew up

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18929731 11/15/23 Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA B beretzs Campfire Ranger beretzs Campfire Ranger B Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA My buddy just sent me the other 175 ABLR we pulled out of the elk. Semper Fi

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18929747 11/15/23 Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 17,247 Likes: 1 Northern Louisiana JPro Campfire Ranger JPro Campfire Ranger Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 17,247 Likes: 1 Northern Louisiana Only ELDX I recovered. Others have been stopped by hogs but I did not go digging for them. Only ABLR I recovered. Others were also stopped by hogs and I didn't go digging for them. Now with even more aplomb

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots beretzs #18929800 11/15/23 Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,854 Smoky Mountains, TN bwinters OP Campfire Outfitter OP bwinters Campfire Outfitter Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,854 Smoky Mountains, TN To me that looks excellent. Starting vel? Distance? Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18929802 11/15/23 Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 23,510 Likes: 11 C Calvin Campfire Ranger Calvin Campfire Ranger C Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 23,510 Likes: 11 Yeah those eldx core/jackets come apart. But they sure kill well.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18929849 11/15/23 Joined: Jun 2016 Posts: 56 Salmon, ID W wildfire45 Campfire Greenhorn wildfire45 Campfire Greenhorn W Joined: Jun 2016 Posts: 56 Salmon, ID Wife shot a relatively heavy bodied forky mule deer this year at 115 yards, broadside but slightly uphill shot. 150 gr ELD-X factory 7mm-08. It was like the buck was hit with a lightning bolt, straight dead before he hit the ground. I had her reload quickly thinking she may have spine stunned it and anticipating him getting back up, he never even twitched. This sounds like a glowing review and its hard to argue with an instantly dead deer but it did catch the bullet and I was NOT impressed with what was left. My scale is refusing to work so I don't have a weight on it but essentially 80% of the jacket stayed intact and it shed essentially everything else. Bullet was pretty badly mangled, no "petals" or "mushroom", the base was intact but so shallow it surprised me. I had thought/hoped this load might do well on elk for her rifle and it might at a more extended range but I would not shoot an elk with one myself after analyzing this one. Unfortunate because it is quite accurate in her Ruger American with a B&C stock (great upgrade) and I had bought 5 boxes at a good price. It's probably ok for deer and antelope but I cannot in good faith recommend this bullet for reliable penetration within 150 yards, and that's at factory 7mm-08 velocities. She did not hit the shoulder bone but did get a rib and nicked the spine due to the angle, messed up a chunk of backstrap which caught the bullet. Ill be sticking to Partitions or Mono's for elk and load the same as this brass becomes used.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18930007 11/15/23 Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA B beretzs Campfire Ranger beretzs Campfire Ranger B Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA I think it’s all in what we wanna see and our experience but that kinda performance on deer is what I want actually. Understand totally what you mean about elk though, but one of them in the ribs would’ve likely netted the same results Hornadys don’t usually look pretty recovered but they do kill pretty well it seems. Great account of the shot though. Semper Fi

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18930414 11/15/23 Joined: Nov 2018 Posts: 1,490 C Cascade Campfire Regular Cascade Campfire Regular C Joined: Nov 2018 Posts: 1,490 My last elk, earlier this year, was a cow at 405 yards the 178 gr ELD-X from the 30-06 did well, but... For elk at modest range, I'd feel more comfortable with Partition, bonded or mono bullets. I don't hunt elk often and like stacking the odds in my favor with a tougher bullet for elk. Guy

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18930936 11/15/23 Joined: Apr 2018 Posts: 8,749 Likes: 12 Abilene J Jackson_Handy Campfire Outfitter Jackson_Handy Campfire Outfitter J Joined: Apr 2018 Posts: 8,749 Likes: 12 Abilene Eldm's did fine at 40yds with a muzzle velocity around 2700fps. Wouldn't worry at all.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18931089 11/15/23 Joined: May 2018 Posts: 393 Vermont 1eyedmule Campfire Member 1eyedmule Campfire Member Joined: May 2018 Posts: 393 Vermont Good information. Following along. I wonder if Jordan Smith's observation about "high-SD" models explains the difference between the performance of the .284 180 on his moose and Teeder's account of the .30 178's? Makes sense that a longer bullet is going to hold together better. "One should not talk to a skilled hunter about what is forbidden by the Buddha." - Hsiang-yen by way of Gary Snyder

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18931560 11/16/23 Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 8,235 Likes: 1 PA Teeder Campfire Outfitter Teeder Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 8,235 Likes: 1 PA I wonder if they have a different ratio of jacket thickness that keeps them together better?

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18931621 11/16/23 Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 17,101 G gitem_12 Campfire Ranger gitem_12 Campfire Ranger G Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 17,101 162 eldx 28 Nosler, 3,245 fps at muzzle. one deer was a neck shot at 47 yrds. deer dropped at shot, wound damage looked no different than a 150 Gr Sierra from a 308 another was the same load info on a frontal chest shot at 2'63 yards. bullet entered front chest and exited left side behind last rib high on the body The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18933115 11/16/23 Joined: Jan 2012 Posts: 708 Paha Sapa T TakeEm Campfire Regular TakeEm Campfire Regular T Joined: Jan 2012 Posts: 708 Paha Sapa Very close to your question with the 7 PRC; I shot a WT buck with a 7mm Rem Mag and 162 ELD-X at about 30 yards. MV was ~3,000 fps. No exit, bang-flop. Thoracic cavity was soup. Shot just behind shoulder. I shot my buck (WT) last year at about 350 yards with a 6mm Creedmoor and 103 ELD-X about two feet of penetration on a quartering shot, no exit. Last weekend, I put down a third WT buck with the same combo that was wounded after jumping it at about 50 yards, Texas heart shot, took out a foot of spine, top of liver, and stopped under the hide. I found the bullet on that one, looked like the rear half with jacket still intact. I'd guess 50-60% weight retention. They are coming out around 3050 out of my 26" barrel with suppressor. Planning on the 168 Berger out of my 7RM for my buck this year. It launches them at 3,000 fps with a SD of 15 and five shot groups well under an inch. Isaiah 6:8

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18933133 11/16/23 Joined: Mar 2017 Posts: 4,350 Oregon L longarm Campfire Tracker longarm Campfire Tracker L Joined: Mar 2017 Posts: 4,350 Oregon For what it's worth, here are three that I have recovered. Should point out that generally they pass completely through with a nice ~1" exit. 6.5 CM 143gr ELD-X, Hornady factory ammo. From top to bottom: 1. 38 yards blacktail buck. Facing me, shot under chin. Broke neck. 2. 168 yard Antelope buck . Again facing me, shot in brisket, penetrated to right side ham. 3. 286 yard blacktail buck. First shot was a pass through just behind the heart. The buck, however, stood up afterwards and started awkwardly making it towards the woods from the clear cut. This poorly placed bullet broke both femurs adjacent to the pelvis.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18933620 11/16/23 Joined: Aug 2017 Posts: 9,115 Likes: 7 T TimberRunner Campfire Outfitter TimberRunner Campfire Outfitter T Joined: Aug 2017 Posts: 9,115 Likes: 7 I know of one elk outfitter that recommends clients don't shoot their factory precision hunter ammo. I had one bad experience with an elk at 320 yards and then moved on, mostly because of convenience. I shot a few small whitetails at 80-100 yards, but mostly used them at longer distances.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18934050 11/16/23 Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,702 Dallas, TX Lou_270 Campfire Regular Lou_270 Campfire Regular Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,702 Dallas, TX Personally, I would listen to Hornady on eldx. It is their bullet after all. As for ablr, not used the 175 ablr but have used the 165 ablr in 6.8W at closer ranges and it has exited on several good sized pigs this past summer. I expect 175 ablr would be good to go. My impression with all the long range bullets is you are giving up some toughness/penetration at close range to get some extra expansion at longer ranges. The bonding of ablr and thick jackret at base helps with that but it also a more expensive bullet. As Craig Boddington likes to say bullet weight covers sins in bullet construction so if using a heavy for game bullet probably ok Lou Last edited by Lou_270; 11/16/23.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18934221 11/17/23 Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 8,235 Likes: 1 PA Teeder Campfire Outfitter Teeder Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 8,235 Likes: 1 PA "As Craig Boddington likes to say bullet weight covers sins in bullet construction so if using a heavy for game bullet probably ok" Isn't that essentially what Elmer was doing with those 300 grain .338 bullets?

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Teeder #18934462 11/17/23 Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 7,185 MT J Just a Hunter Campfire Tracker Just a Hunter Campfire Tracker J Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 7,185 MT Originally Posted by Teeder "As Craig Boddington likes to say bullet weight covers sins in bullet construction so if using a heavy for game bullet probably ok" Isn't that essentially what Elmer was doing with those 300 grain .338 bullets? Just what I was thinking. I wonder if we would have the Nosler Partition if Cup and Core bullets worked every time.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18934513 11/17/23 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada The higher the impact speed of C&C bullets, the less predictable their terminal performance tends to be. Which is why heavy, high-SD C&C bullets launched from standard-velocity cartridges tend to work quite well. I try to stick with a sub-3000 fps launch speed, but 2700-2800 fps may be even better for C&C terminal repeatability. With monos, it seems to be the opposite.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Jordan Smith #18934731 11/17/23 Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA B beretzs Campfire Ranger beretzs Campfire Ranger B Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA Originally Posted by Jordan Smith The higher the impact speed of C&C bullets, the less predictable their terminal performance tends to be. Which is why heavy, high-SD C&C bullets launched from standard-velocity cartridges tend to work quite well. I try to stick with a sub-3000 fps launch speed, but 2700-2800 fps may be even better for C&C terminal repeatability. With monos, it seems to be the opposite. Maybe not gospel, but I tend to stick with that. Nosler Ballistic Tips seem a touch beefier and can be fine a little higher, but I still don't try to hurt them with speed most of the time. Semper Fi

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Jordan Smith #18934744 11/17/23 Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 17,247 Likes: 1 Northern Louisiana JPro Campfire Ranger JPro Campfire Ranger Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 17,247 Likes: 1 Northern Louisiana Originally Posted by Jordan Smith The higher the impact speed of C&C bullets, the less predictable their terminal performance tends to be. Which is why heavy, high-SD C&C bullets launched from standard-velocity cartridges tend to work quite well. I try to stick with a sub-3000 fps launch speed, but 2700-2800 fps may be even better for C&C terminal repeatability. With monos, it seems to be the opposite. I agree with that notion also. Even moderate-weight cup/cores at 2800 or less are generally great killers and don't tend to want to come completely apart on game. They can be fantastic killers at high velocity too, but things start to be far less predictable with regards to penetration and overall performance. If you ask the average hunter around here about day-in, day-out, reliable performance over the decades, most will likely point to the boring old 308 and 30-06 with cup/cores at standard velocities. When we start adding case capacity, bullet construction becomes more of a topic. Now with even more aplomb

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18935333 11/17/23 Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 42,070 Likes: 8 Huntn/Fishn Heaven-NW Ontario New_2_99s Campfire 'Bwana New_2_99s Campfire 'Bwana Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 42,070 Likes: 8 Huntn/Fishn Heaven-NW Ontario Originally Posted by Jordan Smith The higher the impact speed of C&C bullets, the less predictable their terminal performance tends to be. Which is why heavy, high-SD C&C bullets launched from standard-velocity cartridges tend to work quite well. I try to stick with a sub-3000 fps launch speed, but 2700-2800 fps may be even better for C&C terminal repeatability. With monos, it seems to be the opposite. Jordan, So I shouldn't have bought 2 boxes Precision Hunter 110gr ELD-X, for my TC 25-06, to be used on Whitetails ? Occasional 200 metre shot, but most are 50-100 in our boreal. Well, at least they were on special ! ************************************************************ TEST BARREL (24") 3140fps Product Features Featuring the radically superior ELD-­X bullet with Heat Shield tip, Precision Hunter is the ideal load for ANY hunting situation because of its effective terminal performance at ALL practical ranges. Featuring ELD­-X® Bullets with Heat Shield® tip DEVASTATING CONVENTIONAL RANGE PERFORMANCE With high velocity, 0-­400 yard impact, the bullet continually expands throughout its penetration path. The thick shank of the jacket and high InterLock ring keep the core and jacket together providing 50­-60% weight retention. ************************************************************ None of this suggests, blow up upon impact ! Maybe, I'm just naive ! Paul. "Kids who grow up hunting, fishing & trapping, do not mug little old Ladies"

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots New_2_99s #18935824 11/17/23 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Originally Posted by New_2_99s Originally Posted by Jordan Smith The higher the impact speed of C&C bullets, the less predictable their terminal performance tends to be. Which is why heavy, high-SD C&C bullets launched from standard-velocity cartridges tend to work quite well. I try to stick with a sub-3000 fps launch speed, but 2700-2800 fps may be even better for C&C terminal repeatability. With monos, it seems to be the opposite. Jordan, So I shouldn't have bought 2 boxes Precision Hunter 110gr ELD-X, for my TC 25-06, to be used on Whitetails ? Occasional 200 metre shot, but most are 50-100 in our boreal. Well, at least they were on special ! ************************************************************ TEST BARREL (24") 3140fps Product Features Featuring the radically superior ELD-­X bullet with Heat Shield tip, Precision Hunter is the ideal load for ANY hunting situation because of its effective terminal performance at ALL practical ranges. Featuring ELD­-X® Bullets with Heat Shield® tip DEVASTATING CONVENTIONAL RANGE PERFORMANCE With high velocity, 0-­400 yard impact, the bullet continually expands throughout its penetration path. The thick shank of the jacket and high InterLock ring keep the core and jacket together providing 50­-60% weight retention. ************************************************************ None of this suggests, blow up upon impact ! Maybe, I'm just naive ! That's not to say that they don't work outside of that regime, but IME the predictability of terminal performance tends to drop as C&C muzzle speed rises beyond about 3000 fps.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #18935844 11/17/23 Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,476 Where the wild things are. Sakoluvr Campfire Outfitter Sakoluvr Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,476 Where the wild things are. Jordan, including the M version? Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is. dogzapper After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box. Italian Proverb

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Sakoluvr #18936002 11/17/23 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Originally Posted by Sakoluvr Jordan, including the M version? I'm not talking specific bullets here, just a general trend that I've noticed with C&C bullets. I've had predictable and desirable performance from AM and ELD-M bullets fired at 2950-3150 fps on a couple handfuls of animals at fairly close range, but I don't kid myself into believing that such an operational window results in terminal results that are as reliably predictable as when the same bullets are fired at ~2700-2800 fps at the muzzle. Individual C&C bullet designs result in varying terminal reliability, but as a rule, more stress placed on the bullet means a higher chance of integrity failure, especially if there are no design features (a mono shank, a partition, etc.) to prevent disintegration.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Sakoluvr #18936494 11/17/23 Joined: May 2018 Posts: 393 Vermont 1eyedmule Campfire Member 1eyedmule Campfire Member Joined: May 2018 Posts: 393 Vermont Originally Posted by Sakoluvr Jordan, including the M version? What I'm wondering, too. Probably academic at this point. The 175 X has the thicker base jacket but a much bigger cavity in the nose. Where the 180 M doesn't have the thicker copper at the base but has a smaller cavity. And, I guess if you're shooting factory loads the 180 M Hornady at 2,812fps is going 64fps slower than the 175 X Hornady load and 115fps slower than the 175 X Federal load if you're getting the same numbers I am. Maybe the ELD M at factory speed is the best of both worlds - fantastic way out there and perfectly adequate up close. Thank goodness they didn't load it too fast! "One should not talk to a skilled hunter about what is forbidden by the Buddha." - Hsiang-yen by way of Gary Snyder

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19073763 01/03/24 Joined: Dec 2023 Posts: 58 S shoreacres1 Campfire Greenhorn shoreacres1 Campfire Greenhorn S Joined: Dec 2023 Posts: 58 Killed 2 moose with eldx 200 gr at 2875fps. Both moose under 50 yds. Flopped both one shot. Just as effective as nosler accubond IMHO.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19077749 01/05/24 Joined: May 2016 Posts: 3,744 Sandy, Utah J Jim_Knight Campfire Tracker Jim_Knight Campfire Tracker J Joined: May 2016 Posts: 3,744 Sandy, Utah I used a bunch of early soft NBTs on deer only. I haven't killed anything with them since they are made tougher, but have shot them. I always considered the 7mm 150 ELDX like an accurate "soft" NBT. Jacket is just too thin, but the bullet is excellent for accuracy! So for me, out of my long barreled 7x57 loaded hot, I think it would be excellent of coyotes, deer and antelope, lung shots always. My last elk outfitter shot the 6.5/300Wby and loved the 143? ELDX on elk! He shot many at very long range, but some shots were close. Go figure!

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19078003 01/05/24 Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 13,219 Likes: 4 Willamette Valley, Oregon P Pharmseller Campfire Outfitter Pharmseller Campfire Outfitter P Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 13,219 Likes: 4 Willamette Valley, Oregon Nothing closer than about 80 yards except one antelope at about 50 yards. Blew up the heart and exited. Everything we’ve shot with them (162 gr out of 7mm Rem Mags and 150 gr out of 7mm-08s) has died and right now. Pretty much all I load these days. P Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved. ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~ Member #547 Join date 3/09/2001

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19079524 01/05/24 Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,847 B bamagun01 Campfire Regular bamagun01 Campfire Regular B Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,847 I shot a deer a month ago using a 6.5CM Hornady 143g. ELD-X bullet. 50yd shot broad side. He ran about 75yds and dropped. The bullet never exited his opposite shoulder but he was still dead. The spent bullet weighed 107g after recovery. I’d rather a bullet make a complete pass through to make a better blood trail. Luckily that one was in a cut field so it was an easy recovery. "If I couldn't laugh I would go insane." JB

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19079821 01/06/24 Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 499 N.E. Georgia Crowkiller Campfire Member Crowkiller Campfire Member Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 499 N.E. Georgia I'll not use an EldX bullet again. I have had multiple experiences with game shot at closer ranges with a 6.5 Creedmoor that showed inadequate penetration. One deer and several hogs. One hog had two shots that made it into the near lung, but barely. I hunt in areas that have thick cover, and a blood trail is almost necessary if an animal runs after the shot. With the EldX, you may get penetration into the vitals at close range, but generally no exit and a small entrance. That means little to no blood trail. The older Amax does auch better job of penetrating, and I have shot lots of game with it in various calibers at ranges from 15 yards to 380 yards with no issue. In speaking with the guy who answered the phone at Hornady, he implied but wouldn't come out and definitely state that the EldM is the Amax with a new tip. I shot a doe at close range a couple of weeks back with an EldM and it seems to be true. It broke bone on the way in and exited the far shoulder. If I had needed the blood trail, it was there. TANSTAAFL

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19079902 01/06/24 Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 6,878 Likes: 3 s.tex R RIO7 Campfire Tracker RIO7 Campfire Tracker R Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 6,878 Likes: 3 s.tex Crowkiller, Your ELD-X experience varies greatly from mine, near and far. Rio7

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Crowkiller #19079997 01/06/24 Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 10,111 Likes: 3 Whttail_in_MT Campfire Outfitter Whttail_in_MT Campfire Outfitter Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 10,111 Likes: 3 Originally Posted by Crowkiller In speaking with the guy who answered the phone at Hornady, he implied but wouldn't come out and definitely state that the EldM is the Amax with a new tip. mathman posted a photo showing that's not the case. Originally Posted by mathman Some of the designs are slicked up. If I can get done handling some unexpected obligations this evening I'll post a pic of a 168 grain, .308" Amax next to a similar weight ELD-M. Originally Posted by mathman .308", 168 grain side by side, Amax on the left

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Jordan Smith #19080163 01/06/24 Joined: Dec 2022 Posts: 2,335 C Coyote10 Campfire Regular Coyote10 Campfire Regular C Joined: Dec 2022 Posts: 2,335 Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Not the ELD-X, but I’ve seen the 180 ELD-M impact a bull moose on a frontal shot at ~30 m. The bullet was launched at 2930 fps at the muzzle. Impact was above the brisket, and the bullet penetrated about 4’ of moose before exiting at the rear of the rib cage. Moderate wound channel and the bull had 4 hooves in the air about as fast as I could blink after the shot. Don’t see that all that often with moose. I was quite impressed with both the bull’s reaction and the bullet performance. Eld-m stands for murder. Eld-x stands for don't use. I tried to like the eldx. Fly great. But was finicky at different ranges. My experience was sst like up close and little to be desired past 250. This was from a 6.5x284 running 2930. Went to 129 interlocks and turned into a lightning bolt. Shoot a heavy interlock and forget about it. Your cartridge won't look "cool" bit it'll dang sure work. If you must use a tipped bullet, maybe an accubond?I'd recommend Barnes but I have no experience with solids.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19080249 01/06/24 Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 5,182 Likes: 1 Middle Georgia T TrueGrit Campfire Tracker TrueGrit Campfire Tracker T Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 5,182 Likes: 1 Middle Georgia I had bad experiences with the 6mm 103 ELD-X on deer. I'm going to give the ELD-M a try this week when we start culling does and doing bullet testing. Both of the 6mm Hornady bullets shoot so good in my rifles that I have a hard time not using them. Some of the local 6.5 knuckleheads that I shoot with swear that the ELD-X doesn't expand and just punches hole through a deer. IDK what's happening with them, I just know what my results are. Life is good live it while you can.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19080280 01/06/24 Joined: Dec 2022 Posts: 2,335 C Coyote10 Campfire Regular Coyote10 Campfire Regular C Joined: Dec 2022 Posts: 2,335 If you want super violence for anything smaller than say a cow elk, try an sst. They are carnage. Those suckers open immediately, but the farther out you shoot stuff with them, the hold together the more they slow down. I shot 2 does the other day. One at 418ish and the other at like 390. It destroyed every single amount of lung tissue they had and exited with golf ball sized holes. This was from a 280 rem at 2990. If your looking for consistency and a bullet to go from varmints to elk sized, run that interlock. Like a 165 from an 06 or a 140 in a 6.5. Can't go wrong.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Whttail_in_MT #19080446 01/06/24 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT Originally Posted by Crowkiller In speaking with the guy who answered the phone at Hornady, he implied but wouldn't come out and definitely state that the EldM is the Amax with a new tip. mathman posted a photo showing that's not the case. Originally Posted by mathman Some of the designs are slicked up. If I can get done handling some unexpected obligations this evening I'll post a pic of a 168 grain, .308" Amax next to a similar weight ELD-M. Originally Posted by mathman .308", 168 grain side by side, Amax on the left It depends on the specific model. When the ELD-M was first released, I took a series of measurements on both the .224” 75 AM and 75 ELD-M. They were identical to within typical lot-to-lot variation.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Crowkiller #19080506 01/06/24 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Originally Posted by Crowkiller The older Amax does auch better job of penetrating, and I have shot lots of game with it in various calibers at ranges from 15 yards to 380 yards with no issue. In speaking with the guy who answered the phone at Hornady, he implied but wouldn't come out and definitely state that the EldM is the Amax with a new tip. I shot a doe at close range a couple of weeks back with an EldM and it seems to be true. It broke bone on the way in and exited the far shoulder. If I had needed the blood trail, it was there. I’ve seen a pile of game killed with various models of the old AM and the newer ELD-M. Terminal performance is very similar in all cases, with moderate wound channels, deep penetration, and typically an exit. I remember sending a 162 AM launched at ~3100 fps through the shoulder blades of a broadside MD at 20 yards, and was surprised to see a moderate wound channel and 1-1.5” holes through both blades and a 1.25-1.5” exit. Another memorable 162 AM was sent at 2650 fps through a quartering bull moose at 150 yards, and penetrated the onside ribs, vitals, offside shoulder blade, and left a 1.5” exit. The bull took a couple of steps and went down. The same has been the case for myself and family members and friends with the 147 ELD-M from various 6.5 CMs at ~2650-2700 fps at the muzzle, on numerous elk, MD, WT, PH, etc. We have had exits in each case, even on quartering shots. I’ve seen more game killed with the 147 ELD-M than the 127 LRX, but yet we’ve managed to catch more 127s (3 so far) than 147s, surprisingly.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Jordan Smith #19080579 01/06/24 Joined: Dec 2022 Posts: 2,335 C Coyote10 Campfire Regular Coyote10 Campfire Regular C Joined: Dec 2022 Posts: 2,335 Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT Originally Posted by Crowkiller In speaking with the guy who answered the phone at Hornady, he implied but wouldn't come out and definitely state that the EldM is the Amax with a new tip. mathman posted a photo showing that's not the case. Originally Posted by mathman Some of the designs are slicked up. If I can get done handling some unexpected obligations this evening I'll post a pic of a 168 grain, .308" Amax next to a similar weight ELD-M. Originally Posted by mathman .308", 168 grain side by side, Amax on the left It depends on the specific model. When the ELD-M was first released, I took a series of measurements on both the .224” 75 AM and 75 ELD-M. They were identical to within typical lot-to-lot variation. I noticed lot to lot on the 6.5 143s that you have to measure from the ogive. Tip to tip I've seen as much as .01 difference. That's a ton! The beat bullet as far as that goes is a berger vld. Hands down.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19080751 01/06/24 Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,903 Great Lakes B brinky72 Campfire Tracker brinky72 Campfire Tracker B Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,903 Great Lakes I wouldn’t hesitate to shoot anything I normally hunt (bear and deer) at any range with an ELD X. Like any bullet, know what you’re shooting, know what the ideal performance envelope is, and adjust your shot placement accordingly. I’m not going to try and break down a large elk at 10 yards with an ELDX going over 3K fps and wonder why I had less than ideal results. If my target is within a hundred yards I’d say put it through the slats. Outside of that range I wouldn’t worry about hitting heavy bone but I wouldn’t count on an exit with any bullet when hitting heavy bones. Shoulder and heavy leg bone can catch the best monos. Just an add. I shot a whitetail buck that dressed around a 185 lbs. at about 12 feet with a 6.5 Creedmoor 143 ELDX factory load. He was hot on a doe (literally about 5 feet behind her, fun to watch) and never noticed me. That load went through and though the boiler room punching a tennis ball sized hole in the off side. He spun around and fell over dead. It happened so fast that the doe he was chasing turned around and looked at him dead before she bolted off. I couldn’t have asked for better performance at close range. Sometimes I think I should grow my man bun back and get another 6.5 Creedmoor. 😆. Last edited by brinky72; 01/06/24. Keep your powder dry and stay frosty my friends.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Jordan Smith #19081118 01/06/24 Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 499 N.E. Georgia Crowkiller Campfire Member Crowkiller Campfire Member Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 499 N.E. Georgia Originally Posted by Jordan Smith I’ve seen a pile of game killed with various models of the old AM and the newer ELD-M. Terminal performance is very similar in all cases, with moderate wound channels, deep penetration, and typically an exit. I remember sending a 162 AM launched at ~3100 fps through the shoulder blades of a broadside MD at 20 yards, and was surprised to see a moderate wound channel and 1-1.5” holes through both blades and a 1.25-1.5” exit. Another memorable 162 AM was sent at 2650 fps through a quartering bull moose at 150 yards, and penetrated the onside ribs, vitals, offside shoulder blade, and left a 1.5” exit. The bull took a couple of steps and went down. The same has been the case for myself and family members and friends with the 147 ELD-M from various 6.5 CMs at ~2650-2700 fps at the muzzle, on numerous elk, MD, WT, PH, etc. We have had exits in each case, even on quartering shots. I’ve seen more game killed with the 147 ELD-M than the 127 LRX, but yet we’ve managed to catch more 127s (3 so far) than 147s, surprisingly. I'm glad to hear it, as my stash of Amax bullets can't last forever! Originally Posted by RIO7 Crowkiller, Your ELD-X experience varies greatly from mine, near and far. Rio7 I know several people that swear by them, maybe I've had bad luck. But I've had enough bad luck to be done with them. TANSTAAFL

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19081173 01/06/24 Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 28,268 Likes: 7 W. Texas J JGRaider Campfire Ranger JGRaider Campfire Ranger J Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 28,268 Likes: 7 W. Texas Good to know the famous Amax melting tips don't hinder killing power. It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots JGRaider #19081491 01/06/24 Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 8,235 Likes: 1 PA Teeder Campfire Outfitter Teeder Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 8,235 Likes: 1 PA Originally Posted by JGRaider Good to know the famous Amax melting tips don't hinder killing power. Maybe they act like a flamethrower!

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots beretzs #19082143 01/06/24 Joined: Dec 2022 Posts: 2,335 C Coyote10 Campfire Regular Coyote10 Campfire Regular C Joined: Dec 2022 Posts: 2,335 [/quote] That's a good looking combo right there.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19082740 01/06/24 Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 13,108 Kodiak & AZ D dennisinaz Campfire Outfitter dennisinaz Campfire Outfitter D Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 13,108 Kodiak & AZ I have yet to have a bad experience with the ELD-X. I'M limited to the 178 30 caliber and the 143 6.5. I killed a big mule deer and and an Elk in December with the 143 out of my 6.5-284. Both hit the spine. The deer exited, the elk was the first ELD-X I have recovered. I killed 5 Sitka blacktails with the 178 from my 308, all died within a few feet. Seems to be a very good killer for me. I bought a bunch when i couldn't get Bergers and continue to kill chit with them. NRA Benefactor Member Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19083610 01/07/24 Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,688 SE Tennessee TN deer hunter Campfire Regular TN deer hunter Campfire Regular Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,688 SE Tennessee I miss the Hornady Interbond. I shot the 150gr out of a 300 WSM @ 3,300 fps and it was the hammer of thor from 10yds to 300yds always had full penetration with a quarter to golf ball size exit. At one time I had 15 straight kills and none of them took a step. I also shot these in a 30-06 and did recover a couple and they were a perfect mushrooms with about 1/2-3/4" diameter and weight retention was usually around 75%. The scientific name for an animal that doesn't either run from or fight its enemies is lunch. - Michael Friedman

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Jordan Smith #19084056 01/07/24 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Originally Posted by Jordan Smith The same has been the case for myself and family members and friends with the 147 ELD-M from various 6.5 CMs at ~2650-2700 fps at the muzzle, on numerous elk, MD, WT, PH, etc. We have had exits in each case, even on quartering shots. I’ve seen more game killed with the 147 ELD-M than the 127 LRX, but yet we’ve managed to catch more 127s (3 so far) than 147s, surprisingly. Ironically, after several years and many critters with the 147, and always getting exits, a hunting partner killed an elk yesterday and caught our group’s first two 147s. Tough shots with lots of tissue and bone smashed, and bullets just under the hide.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Jordan Smith #19084209 01/07/24 Joined: Oct 2000 Posts: 30,291 Likes: 2 Brad Campfire 'Bwana Brad Campfire 'Bwana Joined: Oct 2000 Posts: 30,291 Likes: 2 Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Originally Posted by Jordan Smith The same has been the case for myself and family members and friends with the 147 ELD-M from various 6.5 CMs at ~2650-2700 fps at the muzzle, on numerous elk, MD, WT, PH, etc. We have had exits in each case, even on quartering shots. I’ve seen more game killed with the 147 ELD-M than the 127 LRX, but yet we’ve managed to catch more 127s (2 so far) than 147s, surprisingly. Ironically, after several years and many critters with the 147, and always getting exits, a hunting partner killed an elk yesterday and caught our group’s first two 147s. Tough shots with lots of tissue and bone smashed, and bullets just under the hide. Jordan, would love to see pics of those bullets if you can. Thanks! “Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Jordan Smith #19084367 01/07/24 Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 1,718 Likes: 11 P pathfinder76 Campfire Regular pathfinder76 Campfire Regular P Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 1,718 Likes: 11 Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Originally Posted by Jordan Smith The same has been the case for myself and family members and friends with the 147 ELD-M from various 6.5 CMs at ~2650-2700 fps at the muzzle, on numerous elk, MD, WT, PH, etc. We have had exits in each case, even on quartering shots. I’ve seen more game killed with the 147 ELD-M than the 127 LRX, but yet we’ve managed to catch more 127s (3 so far) than 147s, surprisingly. Ironically, after several years and many critters with the 147, and always getting exits, a hunting partner killed an elk yesterday and caught our group’s first two 147s. Tough shots with lots of tissue and bone smashed, and bullets just under the hide. Interested in seeing those as well

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Brad #19084379 01/07/24 Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,854 Smoky Mountains, TN bwinters OP Campfire Outfitter OP bwinters Campfire Outfitter Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,854 Smoky Mountains, TN Me too. Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19085448 01/07/24 Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,476 Where the wild things are. Sakoluvr Campfire Outfitter Sakoluvr Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,476 Where the wild things are. I will never hunt with an ELD X again. Once was enough to never trust the 175gr .284 https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...e-a-175-eld-x-on-game-again#Post19014238 Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is. dogzapper After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box. Italian Proverb

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Brad #19085936 01/07/24 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Originally Posted by Brad Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Originally Posted by Jordan Smith The same has been the case for myself and family members and friends with the 147 ELD-M from various 6.5 CMs at ~2650-2700 fps at the muzzle, on numerous elk, MD, WT, PH, etc. We have had exits in each case, even on quartering shots. I’ve seen more game killed with the 147 ELD-M than the 127 LRX, but yet we’ve managed to catch more 127s (2 so far) than 147s, surprisingly. Ironically, after several years and many critters with the 147, and always getting exits, a hunting partner killed an elk yesterday and caught our group’s first two 147s. Tough shots with lots of tissue and bone smashed, and bullets just under the hide. Jordan, would love to see pics of those bullets if you can. Thanks! Shots taken at 591 meters. The second bullet smashed the humerus on a quartering away shot.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Jordan Smith #19085950 01/07/24 Joined: Oct 2000 Posts: 30,291 Likes: 2 Brad Campfire 'Bwana Brad Campfire 'Bwana Joined: Oct 2000 Posts: 30,291 Likes: 2 Wow Jordan, impressive! Thanks for sharing. “Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Jordan Smith #19086193 01/08/24 Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 10,111 Likes: 3 Whttail_in_MT Campfire Outfitter Whttail_in_MT Campfire Outfitter Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 10,111 Likes: 3 Thanks, Jordan. Were those out of a 6.5 CM too?

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Jordan Smith #19086386 01/08/24 Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 8,235 Likes: 1 PA Teeder Campfire Outfitter Teeder Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 8,235 Likes: 1 PA " yet we’ve managed to catch more 127s " What do the 127's look like?

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Whttail_in_MT #19086472 01/08/24 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT Thanks, Jordan. Were those out of a 6.5 CM too? Yessir.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Teeder #19086476 01/08/24 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Originally Posted by Teeder " yet we’ve managed to catch more 127s " What do the 127's look like? I’ll see if I can scrape up a couple of photos.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Jordan Smith #19086647 01/08/24 Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 10,111 Likes: 3 Whttail_in_MT Campfire Outfitter Whttail_in_MT Campfire Outfitter Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 10,111 Likes: 3 Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Originally Posted by Teeder " yet we’ve managed to catch more 127s " What do the 127's look like? I’ll see if I can scrape up a couple of photos. Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT What they look like after going through a deer at about a hundred yards and into the ground. Also out of an 18" suppressed 6.5 CM.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Jordan Smith #19086664 01/08/24 Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 10,111 Likes: 3 Whttail_in_MT Campfire Outfitter Whttail_in_MT Campfire Outfitter Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 10,111 Likes: 3 Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT Thanks, Jordan. Were those out of a 6.5 CM too? Yessir. A target bullet, a Creedmoor, an elk, and 650 yards. You're going to break the Internet.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Whttail_in_MT #19086674 01/08/24 Joined: Oct 2000 Posts: 30,291 Likes: 2 Brad Campfire 'Bwana Brad Campfire 'Bwana Joined: Oct 2000 Posts: 30,291 Likes: 2 Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT Thanks, Jordan. Were those out of a 6.5 CM too? Yessir. A target bullet, a Creedmoor, an elk, and 650 yards. You're going to break the Internet. LOL! Truth is, I'd rather use the 147 ELDM at that range than any mono. “Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Brad #19086697 01/08/24 Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 8,235 Likes: 1 PA Teeder Campfire Outfitter Teeder Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 8,235 Likes: 1 PA Originally Posted by Brad Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT Thanks, Jordan. Were those out of a 6.5 CM too? Yessir. A target bullet, a Creedmoor, an elk, and 650 yards. You're going to break the Internet. LOL! Truth is, I'd rather use the 147 ELDM at that range than any mono. Absolutely. I'll never know, though, because I don't shoot game at those ranges.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Jordan Smith #19086742 01/08/24 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Originally Posted by Teeder " yet we’ve managed to catch more 127s " What do the 127's look like? I’ll see if I can scrape up a couple of photos. MD buck, estimated 350+ lbs live weight. Quartering away at 280 m. Entered rear ribs, came to rest against offside humerus without breaking it. Lost one petal which came to rest next to the bullet; likely broke off when the bullet impacted the humerus. Explained in image:

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Jordan Smith #19087018 01/08/24 Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 8,235 Likes: 1 PA Teeder Campfire Outfitter Teeder Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 8,235 Likes: 1 PA Thanks Jordan! What was the estimated ranges for those?

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19087079 01/08/24 Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 39,237 Likes: 37 Flyover Country Teal Campfire 'Bwana Teal Campfire 'Bwana Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 39,237 Likes: 37 Flyover Country 280 meters Me

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Sakoluvr #19087159 01/08/24 Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,094 Likes: 1 D DonFischer Campfire Regular DonFischer Campfire Regular D Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,094 Likes: 1 Originally Posted by Sakoluvr I will never hunt with an ELD X again. Once was enough to never trust the 175gr .284 https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...e-a-175-eld-x-on-game-again#Post19014238 It's a strange thing. I use either Hornady Spire Points, sorry inter locks, or Speer Hot Cores. Never recovered a bullet to take a photo of other than some I shot into newspaper at 100 yds. Near as I can tell my junk cup and core bullet's merely kill things when properly placed. Somehow I have this feeling that pretty much any bullet properly placed will just kill things. Bear in mind the present #2 grizzly in the world was killed with a single shot rim fire rifle and a 22 long! One more surprise, doesn't seem to matter the dia or even weight of the bullet used, place it right and the animal is dead! Last time I used a 243 on deer I was out hunting coyote's and had only 75gr V-Max ammo with me. Have found that at 200yds shooting into a paper target taped to 2" foam backer the bullet's explode. At about 150 yds on a nice buck the bullet went into the chest, tore it up inside and the buck fell down right there! Probably should have shot it in the neck! never found the bullet or an exit!

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Teeder #19087242 01/08/24 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Originally Posted by Teeder Thanks Jordan! What was the estimated ranges for those? 280 m and 90 m. We caught a third 127 LRX in a bull moose. Frontal shot in the brisket. The bullet smashed the bottom processes of several vertebrae and wound up in the guts somewhere, but we never did find it, despite looking for it while field dressing.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19087434 01/08/24 Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 57,494 Alaska R rost495 Campfire Kahuna rost495 Campfire Kahuna R Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 57,494 Alaska Originally Posted by bwinters What has been the collective experience with the ELDX bullet at close range - say 30-40 yards being launched around 2900-3000? I called Hornady to get a bit of info on the 175 ELDX loads and discussing what I had in mind, he recomended against the ELDX for shots at that range and velocity (7PRC for reference). He opined it would not give an exit - which I'd expect - but did not give a glowing review of encounters with shoulder bones at that distance/velocity. From watching moose and brown bears hit with it off the shoulder from about 40 yards out to about 175 so far, rib cages give no exits. Dead animals obviously but it bothers me if leg bones may get hit. Obviously scapula are not all the tough but big bones can be tough. Flip side too, something hard can really change the angle of travel too and if you hit that hard spot first... rather than last.. but thats another subject and so far even breaking my own rules we have been lucky. But there is always me there to get in another shot if I can and its needed We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Brad #19088179 01/08/24 Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,141 1 10at6 Campfire Regular 10at6 Campfire Regular 1 Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,141 Originally Posted by Brad Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT Thanks, Jordan. Were those out of a 6.5 CM too? Yessir. A target bullet, a Creedmoor, an elk, and 650 yards. You're going to break the Internet. LOL! Truth is, I'd rather use the 147 ELDM at that range than any mono. I would use any match bullet long before using a mono. And most C and C's

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Teeder #19111304 01/15/24 Joined: May 2005 Posts: 7,098 Likes: 4 A AussieGunWriter Campfire Tracker AussieGunWriter Campfire Tracker A Joined: May 2005 Posts: 7,098 Likes: 4 Originally Posted by Teeder "As Craig Boddington likes to say bullet weight covers sins in bullet construction so if using a heavy for game bullet probably ok" Isn't that essentially what Elmer was doing with those 300 grain .338 bullets? Except Elmer used .333 caliber Jeffreys bullets. If he had a .338 caliber cartridge, he could have used Nosler Partitions on those safaris back in the late 50's. When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots 10at6 #19111631 01/15/24 Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,004 Likes: 3 Winchester, WY USA M memtb Campfire Outfitter memtb Campfire Outfitter M Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,004 Likes: 3 Winchester, WY USA Originally Posted by 10at6 Originally Posted by Brad Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT Thanks, Jordan. Were those out of a 6.5 CM too? Yessir. A target bullet, a Creedmoor, an elk, and 650 yards. You're going to break the Internet. LOL! Truth is, I'd rather use the 147 ELDM at that range than any mono. I would use any match bullet long before using a mono. And most C and C's 🤦‍♂️ JFW! No comment necessary, as this should be pretty self explanatory! memtb You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel “I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19111838 01/15/24 Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 5,182 Likes: 1 Middle Georgia T TrueGrit Campfire Tracker TrueGrit Campfire Tracker T Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 5,182 Likes: 1 Middle Georgia Shoulder shot a doe yesterday at 95yds with a 168gr TTSX just see. Excellent result same as one that I shot in the upper neck that almost took her head off. We my not use the 168gr TTSX on elk next year but it will forever be our deer bullet of choice. Life is good live it while you can.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots memtb #19111875 01/15/24 Joined: Apr 2018 Posts: 8,749 Likes: 12 Abilene J Jackson_Handy Campfire Outfitter Jackson_Handy Campfire Outfitter J Joined: Apr 2018 Posts: 8,749 Likes: 12 Abilene Originally Posted by memtb Originally Posted by 10at6 Originally Posted by Brad Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Originally Posted by Whttail_in_MT Thanks, Jordan. Were those out of a 6.5 CM too? Yessir. A target bullet, a Creedmoor, an elk, and 650 yards. You're going to break the Internet. LOL! Truth is, I'd rather use the 147 ELDM at that range than any mono. I would use any match bullet long before using a mono. And most C and C's 🤦‍♂️ JFW! No comment necessary, as this should be pretty self explanatory! memtb You are so gawd dam stupid

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19112759 01/15/24 Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 17,805 Likes: 2 Wyoming W WyoCoyoteHunter Campfire Ranger WyoCoyoteHunter Campfire Ranger W Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 17,805 Likes: 2 Wyoming Handy is refering to himself and his vast knowledge of hunting and firearms. Molon Labe

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots WyoCoyoteHunter #19113373 01/15/24 Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,004 Likes: 3 Winchester, WY USA M memtb Campfire Outfitter memtb Campfire Outfitter M Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,004 Likes: 3 Winchester, WY USA Originally Posted by WyoCoyoteHunter Handy is refering to himself and his vast knowledge of hunting and firearms. 👍 👏 memtb You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel “I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots WyoCoyoteHunter #19113460 01/15/24 Joined: Apr 2018 Posts: 8,749 Likes: 12 Abilene J Jackson_Handy Campfire Outfitter Jackson_Handy Campfire Outfitter J Joined: Apr 2018 Posts: 8,749 Likes: 12 Abilene Originally Posted by WyoCoyoteHunter Handy is refering to himself and his vast knowledge of hunting and firearms. No, I was directly addressing memtb, obviously. !!!!! Last edited by Jackson_Handy; 01/15/24.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots AussieGunWriter #19113592 01/15/24 Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 60,180 Likes: 20 Banana Belt, Montana M Mule Deer Campfire Kahuna Mule Deer Campfire Kahuna M Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 60,180 Likes: 20 Banana Belt, Montana Originally Posted by AussieGunWriter Originally Posted by Teeder "As Craig Boddington likes to say bullet weight covers sins in bullet construction so if using a heavy for game bullet probably ok" Isn't that essentially what Elmer was doing with those 300 grain .338 bullets? Except Elmer used .333 caliber Jeffreys bullets. If he had a .338 caliber cartridge, he could have used Nosler Partitions on those safaris back in the late 50's. Elmer used 300-grain steel-jacketed .333 Kynoch bullets on his first safari in 1958, both "solids" and "softs," in his .333 OKH. The softs blew up so badly (one didn't even exit a Thompson's gazelle about the size of a big coyote) that he used the solids for the rest of the safari. They were the typical round-nosed solids of the era, which didn't kill very well either, even though they penetrated. I know this from reading his book Safari numerous times, which was pretty rare due to being a private printing. I have enormous respect for Elmer in most ways, the reason I re-read Hell, I Was There every 2-3 years--and also own or have owned all his other books. For one thing, he often mentioned how little meat damage heavier, slower bullets caused, something many "gun writers" never mention--perhaps because the meat isn't important to them. For another Lorraine always seemed to be very happy, which counts for a lot in my world. Also corresponded briefly with him toward the end of his life, and have one of his letters on the wall of my office--which deals with the .338-06 and the best bullets and loads. But he was also more "resistant" to how changes in bullet construction affected consistent performance, whether penetration or expansion or whatever. One example is how he wrote at least once that the 250-grain .338 Nosler Partition should have weighed 300 grains. I have killed a bunch of big game weighing up to 1500 pounds with the 250 .338 and have yet to recover one.... “Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Mule Deer #19114038 01/15/24 Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16 Wyoming JohnBurns Campfire Outfitter JohnBurns Campfire Outfitter Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16 Wyoming Originally Posted by Mule Deer Originally Posted by AussieGunWriter Originally Posted by Teeder "As Craig Boddington likes to say bullet weight covers sins in bullet construction so if using a heavy for game bullet probably ok" Isn't that essentially what Elmer was doing with those 300 grain .338 bullets? Except Elmer used .333 caliber Jeffreys bullets. If he had a .338 caliber cartridge, he could have used Nosler Partitions on those safaris back in the late 50's. Elmer used 300-grain steel-jacketed .333 Kynoch bullets on his first safari in 1958, both "solids" and "softs," in his .333 OKH. The softs blew up so badly (one didn't even exit a Thompson's gazelle about the size of a big coyote) that he used the solids for the rest of the safari. They were the typical round-nosed solids of the era, which didn't kill very well either, even though they penetrated. I know this from reading his book Safari numerous times, which was pretty rare due to being a private printing. I have enormous respect for Elmer in most ways, the reason I re-read Hell, I Was There every 2-3 years--and also own or have owned all his other books. For one thing, he often mentioned how little meat damage heavier, slower bullets caused, something many "gun writers" never mention--perhaps because the meat isn't important to them. For another Lorraine always seemed to be very happy, which counts for a lot in my world. Also corresponded briefly with him toward the end of his life, and have one of his letters on the wall of my office--which deals with the .338-06 and the best bullets and loads. But he was also more "resistant" to how changes in bullet construction affected consistent performance, whether penetration or expansion or whatever. One example is how he wrote at least once that the 250-grain .338 Nosler Partition should have weighed 300 grains. I have killed a bunch of big game weighing up to 1500 pounds with the 250 .338 and have yet to recover one.... Elmers last bull elk was killed with the 275 Gr Speer in a .338 KT. Bullet fragmented and but did kill that spike. A 130gr VLD from a 6.5mmCM would have done just as well. Recovering bullets is a ho hum thing. Recovering game is pretty important. John Burns I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots TN deer hunter #19114192 01/15/24 Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 10,035 Likes: 4 Idaho B Burleyboy Campfire Outfitter Burleyboy Campfire Outfitter B Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 10,035 Likes: 4 Idaho Originally Posted by TN deer hunter I miss the Hornady Interbond. I shot the 150gr out of a 300 WSM @ 3,300 fps and it was the hammer of thor from 10yds to 300yds always had full penetration with a quarter to golf ball size exit. At one time I had 15 straight kills and none of them took a step. I also shot these in a 30-06 and did recover a couple and they were a perfect mushrooms with about 1/2-3/4" diameter and weight retention was usually around 75%. The interbonds hit incredibly hard. I ran the 165g through a 300 wsm at 3100 for a few years in the early 2000s. I was impressed with how they killed. I recovered one from a large bodied mule deer buck and it had a nice mushroom of twice diameter and still weight around 140g iirc. I actually found some 7mm 154g interbonds on clearance recently and bought about 700. They may not have the best bc for a tipped boat tail but if one of my rifles likes them I'll hunt with them. I used the 180 eldm from a 7 prc at 2850mv to take my cow elk on Halloween day at 470 yards. It worked but I only recovered some small bullet fragments. It dug deeper than a 150 eldx from my 18" fieldcraft 7-08 did on a cow a few years back. Bb

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Mule Deer #19114517 01/15/24 Joined: May 2005 Posts: 7,098 Likes: 4 A AussieGunWriter Campfire Tracker AussieGunWriter Campfire Tracker A Joined: May 2005 Posts: 7,098 Likes: 4 Originally Posted by Mule Deer Originally Posted by AussieGunWriter Originally Posted by Teeder "As Craig Boddington likes to say bullet weight covers sins in bullet construction so if using a heavy for game bullet probably ok" Isn't that essentially what Elmer was doing with those 300 grain .338 bullets? Except Elmer used .333 caliber Jeffreys bullets. If he had a .338 caliber cartridge, he could have used Nosler Partitions on those safaris back in the late 50's. Elmer used 300-grain steel-jacketed .333 Kynoch bullets on his first safari in 1958, both "solids" and "softs," in his .333 OKH. The softs blew up so badly (one didn't even exit a Thompson's gazelle about the size of a big coyote) that he used the solids for the rest of the safari. They were the typical round-nosed solids of the era, which didn't kill very well either, even though they penetrated. I know this from reading his book Safari numerous times, which was pretty rare due to being a private printing. I have enormous respect for Elmer in most ways, the reason I re-read Hell, I Was There every 2-3 years--and also own or have owned all his other books. For one thing, he often mentioned how little meat damage heavier, slower bullets caused, something many "gun writers" never mention--perhaps because the meat isn't important to them. For another Lorraine always seemed to be very happy, which counts for a lot in my world. Also corresponded briefly with him toward the end of his life, and have one of his letters on the wall of my office--which deals with the .338-06 and the best bullets and loads. But he was also more "resistant" to how changes in bullet construction affected consistent performance, whether penetration or expansion or whatever. One example is how he wrote at least once that the 250-grain .338 Nosler Partition should have weighed 300 grains. I have killed a bunch of big game weighing up to 1500 pounds with the 250 .338 and have yet to recover one.... That "Safari" book is a good read. Have a signed copy and interestingly Elmer hand wrote corrections throughout the book where misprints occured. Have a bunch of others as well, as his writing made a lot of sence. Interestingly, I never heard of Jack O'Connor until Guns&Ammo published a newsstand book of his best of stories after his death. Liked that too, although being a special edition, didn't know anything about his association to the .270 until I got on this web site. When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots AussieGunWriter #19114574 01/15/24 Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,004 Likes: 3 Winchester, WY USA M memtb Campfire Outfitter memtb Campfire Outfitter M Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,004 Likes: 3 Winchester, WY USA Originally Posted by AussieGunWriter Originally Posted by Mule Deer Originally Posted by AussieGunWriter Originally Posted by Teeder "As Craig Boddington likes to say bullet weight covers sins in bullet construction so if using a heavy for game bullet probably ok" Isn't that essentially what Elmer was doing with those 300 grain .338 bullets? Except Elmer used .333 caliber Jeffreys bullets. If he had a .338 caliber cartridge, he could have used Nosler Partitions on those safaris back in the late 50's. Elmer used 300-grain steel-jacketed .333 Kynoch bullets on his first safari in 1958, both "solids" and "softs," in his .333 OKH. The softs blew up so badly (one didn't even exit a Thompson's gazelle about the size of a big coyote) that he used the solids for the rest of the safari. They were the typical round-nosed solids of the era, which didn't kill very well either, even though they penetrated. I know this from reading his book Safari numerous times, which was pretty rare due to being a private printing. J I have enormous respect for Elmer in most ways, the reason I re-read Hell, I Was There every 2-3 years--and also own or have owned all his other books. For one thing, he often mentioned how little meat damage heavier, slower bullets caused, something many "gun writers" never mention--perhaps because the meat isn't important to them. For another Lorraine always seemed to be very happy, which counts for a lot in my world. Also corresponded briefly with him toward the end of his life, and have one of his letters on the wall of my office--which deals with the .338-06 and the best bullets and loads. But he was also more "resistant" to how changes in bullet construction affected consistent performance, whether penetration or expansion or whatever. One example is how he wrote at least once that the 250-grain .338 Nosler Partition should have weighed 300 grains. I have killed a bunch of big game weighing up to 1500 pounds with the 250 .338 and have yet to recover one.... That "Safari" book is a good read. Have a signed copy and interestingly Elmer hand wrote corrections throughout the book where misprints occured. Have a bunch of others as well, as his writing made a lot of sence. Interestingly, I never heard of Jack O'Connor until Guns&Ammo published a newsstand book of his best of stories after his death. Liked that too, although being a special edition, didn't know anything about his association to the .270 until I got on this web site. Jack O’Conner, single handedly is the reason that I despise the 270 Win. 😁 memtb You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel “I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Mule Deer #19114844 01/16/24 Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 8,235 Likes: 1 PA Teeder Campfire Outfitter Teeder Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 8,235 Likes: 1 PA Originally Posted by Mule Deer Originally Posted by AussieGunWriter Originally Posted by Teeder "As Craig Boddington likes to say bullet weight covers sins in bullet construction so if using a heavy for game bullet probably ok" Isn't that essentially what Elmer was doing with those 300 grain .338 bullets? Except Elmer used .333 caliber Jeffreys bullets. If he had a .338 caliber cartridge, he could have used Nosler Partitions on those safaris back in the late 50's. Elmer used 300-grain steel-jacketed .333 Kynoch bullets on his first safari in 1958, both "solids" and "softs," in his .333 OKH. The softs blew up so badly (one didn't even exit a Thompson's gazelle about the size of a big coyote) that he used the solids for the rest of the safari. They were the typical round-nosed solids of the era, which didn't kill very well either, even though they penetrated. I know this from reading his book Safari numerous times, which was pretty rare due to being a private printing. I have enormous respect for Elmer in most ways, the reason I re-read Hell, I Was There every 2-3 years--and also own or have owned all his other books. For one thing, he often mentioned how little meat damage heavier, slower bullets caused, something many "gun writers" never mention--perhaps because the meat isn't important to them. For another Lorraine always seemed to be very happy, which counts for a lot in my world. Also corresponded briefly with him toward the end of his life, and have one of his letters on the wall of my office--which deals with the .338-06 and the best bullets and loads. But he was also more "resistant" to how changes in bullet construction affected consistent performance, whether penetration or expansion or whatever. One example is how he wrote at least once that the 250-grain .338 Nosler Partition should have weighed 300 grains. I have killed a bunch of big game weighing up to 1500 pounds with the 250 .338 and have yet to recover one.... Thanks for clearing that up. My memory isn't what it used to be.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots JohnBurns #19115120 01/16/24 Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA B beretzs Campfire Ranger beretzs Campfire Ranger B Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA Originally Posted by JohnBurns Originally Posted by Mule Deer Originally Posted by AussieGunWriter Originally Posted by Teeder "As Craig Boddington likes to say bullet weight covers sins in bullet construction so if using a heavy for game bullet probably ok" Isn't that essentially what Elmer was doing with those 300 grain .338 bullets? Except Elmer used .333 caliber Jeffreys bullets. If he had a .338 caliber cartridge, he could have used Nosler Partitions on those safaris back in the late 50's. Elmer used 300-grain steel-jacketed .333 Kynoch bullets on his first safari in 1958, both "solids" and "softs," in his .333 OKH. The softs blew up so badly (one didn't even exit a Thompson's gazelle about the size of a big coyote) that he used the solids for the rest of the safari. They were the typical round-nosed solids of the era, which didn't kill very well either, even though they penetrated. I know this from reading his book Safari numerous times, which was pretty rare due to being a private printing. I have enormous respect for Elmer in most ways, the reason I re-read Hell, I Was There every 2-3 years--and also own or have owned all his other books. For one thing, he often mentioned how little meat damage heavier, slower bullets caused, something many "gun writers" never mention--perhaps because the meat isn't important to them. For another Lorraine always seemed to be very happy, which counts for a lot in my world. Also corresponded briefly with him toward the end of his life, and have one of his letters on the wall of my office--which deals with the .338-06 and the best bullets and loads. But he was also more "resistant" to how changes in bullet construction affected consistent performance, whether penetration or expansion or whatever. One example is how he wrote at least once that the 250-grain .338 Nosler Partition should have weighed 300 grains. I have killed a bunch of big game weighing up to 1500 pounds with the 250 .338 and have yet to recover one.... Elmers last bull elk was killed with the 275 Gr Speer in a .338 KT. Bullet fragmented and but did kill that spike. A 130gr VLD from a 6.5mmCM would have done just as well. Recovering bullets is a ho hum thing. Recovering game is pretty important. KT pretty similar to the 340 Wby? Semper Fi

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Burleyboy #19115405 01/16/24 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Originally Posted by Burleyboy Originally Posted by TN deer hunter I miss the Hornady Interbond. I shot the 150gr out of a 300 WSM @ 3,300 fps and it was the hammer of thor from 10yds to 300yds always had full penetration with a quarter to golf ball size exit. At one time I had 15 straight kills and none of them took a step. I also shot these in a 30-06 and did recover a couple and they were a perfect mushrooms with about 1/2-3/4" diameter and weight retention was usually around 75%. The interbonds hit incredibly hard. I ran the 165g through a 300 wsm at 3100 for a few years in the early 2000s. I was impressed with how they killed. I recovered one from a large bodied mule deer buck and it had a nice mushroom of twice diameter and still weight around 140g iirc. I actually found some 7mm 154g interbonds on clearance recently and bought about 700. They may not have the best bc for a tipped boat tail but if one of my rifles likes them I'll hunt with them. I used the 180 eldm from a 7 prc at 2850mv to take my cow elk on Halloween day at 470 yards. It worked but I only recovered some small bullet fragments. It dug deeper than a 150 eldx from my 18" fieldcraft 7-08 did on a cow a few years back. Bb I take it, no exit with that 180, Bb? What was penetration like?

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots beretzs #19115427 01/16/24 Joined: May 2005 Posts: 7,098 Likes: 4 A AussieGunWriter Campfire Tracker AussieGunWriter Campfire Tracker A Joined: May 2005 Posts: 7,098 Likes: 4 Originally Posted by beretzs Originally Posted by JohnBurns Originally Posted by Mule Deer Originally Posted by AussieGunWriter Originally Posted by Teeder "As Craig Boddington likes to say bullet weight covers sins in bullet construction so if using a heavy for game bullet probably ok" Isn't that essentially what Elmer was doing with those 300 grain .338 bullets? Except Elmer used .333 caliber Jeffreys bullets. If he had a .338 caliber cartridge, he could have used Nosler Partitions on those safaris back in the late 50's. Elmer used 300-grain steel-jacketed .333 Kynoch bullets on his first safari in 1958, both "solids" and "softs," in his .333 OKH. The softs blew up so badly (one didn't even exit a Thompson's gazelle about the size of a big coyote) that he used the solids for the rest of the safari. They were the typical round-nosed solids of the era, which didn't kill very well either, even though they penetrated. I know this from reading his book Safari numerous times, which was pretty rare due to being a private printing. I have enormous respect for Elmer in most ways, the reason I re-read Hell, I Was There every 2-3 years--and also own or have owned all his other books. For one thing, he often mentioned how little meat damage heavier, slower bullets caused, something many "gun writers" never mention--perhaps because the meat isn't important to them. For another Lorraine always seemed to be very happy, which counts for a lot in my world. Also corresponded briefly with him toward the end of his life, and have one of his letters on the wall of my office--which deals with the .338-06 and the best bullets and loads. But he was also more "resistant" to how changes in bullet construction affected consistent performance, whether penetration or expansion or whatever. One example is how he wrote at least once that the 250-grain .338 Nosler Partition should have weighed 300 grains. I have killed a bunch of big game weighing up to 1500 pounds with the 250 .338 and have yet to recover one.... Elmers last bull elk was killed with the 275 Gr Speer in a .338 KT. Bullet fragmented and but did kill that spike. A 130gr VLD from a 6.5mmCM would have done just as well. Recovering bullets is a ho hum thing. Recovering game is pretty important. KT pretty similar to the 340 Wby? More similar than different. I've had a couple of 340's and a full sized 338/378 and the only difference in the field was the recoil, headaches and muzzle roar. A case volume in between wouldn't have any notable difference and no benefits. When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19115515 01/16/24 Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA B beretzs Campfire Ranger beretzs Campfire Ranger B Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA Thanks AGW. Semper Fi

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19115526 01/16/24 Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 17,805 Likes: 2 Wyoming W WyoCoyoteHunter Campfire Ranger WyoCoyoteHunter Campfire Ranger W Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 17,805 Likes: 2 Wyoming beretzs, Elmer and Thompson pushed the shoulder back about a quarter of an inch on his .338/378. He felt a full lenght case was too over bore for 4831. He gained a bit of speed over the .340 I am not sure now how much. I am also not sure about the 275 gr Speer blowing up in the spike. He never mentioned a failure with that bullet that I remember reading about. I know it was his 50th elk for his own use. As much as I respect Elmer he had his short comings, but who doesn't. He was always concerned about the loss of meat. Something few other writers ever mentioned. Molon Labe

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19115585 01/16/24 Joined: Jul 2014 Posts: 2,556 Nebraska S sbhooper Campfire Regular sbhooper Campfire Regular S Joined: Jul 2014 Posts: 2,556 Nebraska The ELD-x bullets have always had a hit-and-miss reputation for reliability. I have read and seen a bit of both, although I have never tried them. The ones that I tested were very accurate. I think that they were developed with long shots in mind and consequently do not do as well up close. I have, however, shot quite a few deer from close, to out past 400 yards with the 147 ELD-M, from a Creedmoor. It has performed well at all distances. It seems strange that a target bullet does better than their hunting bullet, but it does. There is obviously a design difference, but maybe the key is long-for-caliber demensions. In my opinion, the old SST was garbage. I had them come apart on small white-tailed does, shot from a moderate-velocity .308. Never again would I use that bullet. The old A-max, performed much as the ELD-M does now. It seemed to be reliable on deer and elk-from what I have seen and read, but I never used them. My experience is that the standard Interlock beats the new, fancy bullets hands down for hunting at all reasonable ranges. I realize that they do not have the pretty little tips, but that is irrelevant anyway. That bullet from nearly any cartridge has never let me down and are as accurate as I can shoot. The 129 in the Creed and .260 perform great. I will not use a mono in a moderate-velocity cartridge, as it is just not necessary and they are expensive. Last edited by sbhooper; 01/16/24. You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it. A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck. Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots sbhooper #19115611 01/16/24 Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 57,494 Alaska R rost495 Campfire Kahuna rost495 Campfire Kahuna R Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 57,494 Alaska Originally Posted by sbhooper The ELD-x bullets have always had a hit-and-miss reputation for reliability. I have read and seen a bit of both, although I have never tried them. The ones that I tested were very accurate. I think that they were developed with long shots in mind and consequently do not do as well up close. I have, however, shot quite a few deer from close, to out past 400 yards with the 147 ELD-M, from a Creedmoor. It has performed well at all distances. It seems strange that a target bullet does better than their hunting bullet, but it does. There is obviously a design difference, but maybe the key is long-for-caliber demensions. In my opinion, the old SST was garbage. I had them come apart on small white-tailed does, shot from a moderate-velocity .308. Never again would I use that bullet. The old A-max, performed much as the ELD-M does now. It seemed to be reliable on deer and elk-from what I have seen and read, but I never used them. My experience is that the standard Interlock beats the new, fancy bullets hands down for hunting at all reasonable ranges. I realize that they do not have the pretty little tips, but that is irrelevant anyway. That bullet from nearly any cartridge has never let me down and are as accurate as I can shoot. The 129 in the Creed and .260 perform great. I will not use a mono in a moderate-velocity cartridge, as it is just not necessary and they are expensive. if the cost of something like a TTSX or hammer etc... is too much then there are other issues at hand. We can blame it on many things but cost is not one of those. We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots sbhooper #19115657 01/16/24 Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 60,180 Likes: 20 Banana Belt, Montana M Mule Deer Campfire Kahuna Mule Deer Campfire Kahuna M Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 60,180 Likes: 20 Banana Belt, Montana Originally Posted by sbhooper In my opinion, the old SST was garbage. I had them come apart on small white-tailed does, shot from a moderate-velocity .308. Never again would I use that bullet. The old SST was garbage, but as Nosler did with the early, fragile Ballistic Tips, Hornady fixed the SSTS not long after the initial poor results. Among several instances I've witnessed in the past several years Including bull elk taken with a 180 SST from a Hornady factory load) was a hunt I went on in South Texas in 2017 with some other gun-industry people. We all used Franchi Momentum bolt-action rifles in .308 Winchester and factory ammo with the 150-grain SST at a listed 2820 fps. We took 20 whitetails and pigs--and never recovered a bullet, so don't know how much weight the bullets retained. The biggest buck weighed around 200 pounds on the ranch scale, and was taken at around 100 yards, almost facing the hunter. The bullet entered the chest inside the left shoulder and exited the right ham. The biggest pig also weighed right around 200, and was shot through both shoulders at around 60 yards--and the bullet broke both shoulders and exited. “Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots sbhooper #19115741 01/16/24 Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,004 Likes: 3 Winchester, WY USA M memtb Campfire Outfitter memtb Campfire Outfitter M Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,004 Likes: 3 Winchester, WY USA Good morning Sid, good to see that you’re still around and kick’n! Have a great New Year my friend! memtb You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel “I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Mule Deer #19115757 01/16/24 Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,004 Likes: 3 Winchester, WY USA M memtb Campfire Outfitter memtb Campfire Outfitter M Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,004 Likes: 3 Winchester, WY USA Sounds like pretty good bullet performance with those SSTS’s ! memtb You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel “I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots AussieGunWriter #19115892 01/16/24 Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 1,659 R Riflehunter Campfire Regular Riflehunter Campfire Regular R Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 1,659 Originally Posted by AussieGunWriter Originally Posted by beretzs Originally Posted by JohnBurns Originally Posted by Mule Deer Originally Posted by AussieGunWriter Originally Posted by Teeder "As Craig Boddington likes to say bullet weight covers sins in bullet construction so if using a heavy for game bullet probably ok" Isn't that essentially what Elmer was doing with those 300 grain .338 bullets? Except Elmer used .333 caliber Jeffreys bullets. If he had a .338 caliber cartridge, he could have used Nosler Partitions on those safaris back in the late 50's. Elmer used 300-grain steel-jacketed .333 Kynoch bullets on his first safari in 1958, both "solids" and "softs," in his .333 OKH. The softs blew up so badly (one didn't even exit a Thompson's gazelle about the size of a big coyote) that he used the solids for the rest of the safari. They were the typical round-nosed solids of the era, which didn't kill very well either, even though they penetrated. I know this from reading his book Safari numerous times, which was pretty rare due to being a private printing. I have enormous respect for Elmer in most ways, the reason I re-read Hell, I Was There every 2-3 years--and also own or have owned all his other books. For one thing, he often mentioned how little meat damage heavier, slower bullets caused, something many "gun writers" never mention--perhaps because the meat isn't important to them. For another Lorraine always seemed to be very happy, which counts for a lot in my world. Also corresponded briefly with him toward the end of his life, and have one of his letters on the wall of my office--which deals with the .338-06 and the best bullets and loads. But he was also more "resistant" to how changes in bullet construction affected consistent performance, whether penetration or expansion or whatever. One example is how he wrote at least once that the 250-grain .338 Nosler Partition should have weighed 300 grains. I have killed a bunch of big game weighing up to 1500 pounds with the 250 .338 and have yet to recover one.... Elmers last bull elk was killed with the 275 Gr Speer in a .338 KT. Bullet fragmented and but did kill that spike. A 130gr VLD from a 6.5mmCM would have done just as well. Recovering bullets is a ho hum thing. Recovering game is pretty important. KT pretty similar to the 340 Wby? More similar than different. I've had a couple of 340's and a full sized 338/378 and the only difference in the field was the recoil, headaches and muzzle roar. A case volume in between wouldn't have any notable difference and no benefits. The modern ballistic equivalent to Elmer's shortened .338-378 is the .338 Lapua. The Lapua case doesn't have the useless belt and is strengthened around the web, but otherwise, very similar. The .378 case was "inspired" by the .416 Rigby case, which of course doesn't have a belt. Elmer's shortened .338-378 is just another example of how clever he was, as the .338 Lapua is still considered the standard for long-range shooting with a medium bore.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19115945 01/16/24 Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,004 Likes: 3 Winchester, WY USA M memtb Campfire Outfitter memtb Campfire Outfitter M Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,004 Likes: 3 Winchester, WY USA Elmer's shortened .338-378 is just another example of how clever he was, as the .338 Lapua is still considered the standard for long-range shooting with a medium bore We have a winner here! Someone that appreciates Elmer Keith and his contributions. 👍 memtb You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel “I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots WyoCoyoteHunter #19116025 01/16/24 Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA B beretzs Campfire Ranger beretzs Campfire Ranger B Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA Originally Posted by WyoCoyoteHunter beretzs, Elmer and Thompson pushed the shoulder back about a quarter of an inch on his .338/378. He felt a full lenght case was too over bore for 4831. He gained a bit of speed over the .340 I am not sure now how much. I am also not sure about the 275 gr Speer blowing up in the spike. He never mentioned a failure with that bullet that I remember reading about. I know it was his 50th elk for his own use. As much as I respect Elmer he had his short comings, but who doesn't. He was always concerned about the loss of meat. Something few other writers ever mentioned. Thanks WCH. Semper Fi

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Mule Deer #19116316 01/16/24 Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 5,182 Likes: 1 Middle Georgia T TrueGrit Campfire Tracker TrueGrit Campfire Tracker T Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 5,182 Likes: 1 Middle Georgia Originally Posted by Mule Deer Originally Posted by sbhooper In my opinion, the old SST was garbage. I had them come apart on small white-tailed does, shot from a moderate-velocity .308. Never again would I use that bullet. The old SST was garbage, but as Nosler did with the early, fragile Ballistic Tips, Hornady fixed the SSTS not long after the initial poor results. Among several instances I've witnessed in the past several years Including bull elk taken with a 180 SST from a Hornady factory load) was a hunt I went on in South Texas in 2017 with some other gun-industry people. We all used Franchi Momentum bolt-action rifles in .308 Winchester and factory ammo with the 150-grain SST at a listed 2820 fps. We took 20 whitetails and pigs--and never recovered a bullet, so don't know how much weight the bullets retained. The biggest buck weighed around 200 pounds on the ranch scale, and was taken at around 100 yards, almost facing the hunter. The bullet entered the chest inside the left shoulder and exited the right ham. The biggest pig also weighed right around 200, and was shot through both shoulders at around 60 yards--and the bullet broke both shoulders and exited. With that said, what would you expect the SST to do at longer ranges and lower velocities? And why can't the bullet companies make a partition or interlock bullet with a high BC? Life is good live it while you can.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots TrueGrit #19116328 01/16/24 Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 30,967 Likes: 5 USA J jwp475 Campfire 'Bwana jwp475 Campfire 'Bwana J Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 30,967 Likes: 5 USA Originally Posted by TrueGrit Originally Posted by Mule Deer Originally Posted by sbhooper In my opinion, the old SST was garbage. I had them come apart on small white-tailed does, shot from a moderate-velocity .308. Never again would I use that bullet. The old SST was garbage, but as Nosler did with the early, fragile Ballistic Tips, Hornady fixed the SSTS not long after the initial poor results. Among several instances I've witnessed in the past several years Including bull elk taken with a 180 SST from a Hornady factory load) was a hunt I went on in South Texas in 2017 with some other gun-industry people. We all used Franchi Momentum bolt-action rifles in .308 Winchester and factory ammo with the 150-grain SST at a listed 2820 fps. We took 20 whitetails and pigs--and never recovered a bullet, so don't know how much weight the bullets retained. The biggest buck weighed around 200 pounds on the ranch scale, and was taken at around 100 yards, almost facing the hunter. The bullet entered the chest inside the left shoulder and exited the right ham. The biggest pig also weighed right around 200, and was shot through both shoulders at around 60 yards--and the bullet broke both shoulders and exited. With that said, what would you expect the SST to do at longer ranges and lower velocities? And why can't the bullet companies make a partition or interlock bullet with a high BC? If you want a higher BC than the Partition then use the Accubond. They are a very good bullet I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19116688 01/16/24 Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 2,251 raleigh, nc F fats Campfire Regular fats Campfire Regular F Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 2,251 raleigh, nc I know my experience is with a smaller caliber but I had four NC whitetails die via the Hornady 22 creedmoor 80 grain eld-x load thats supposedly moving at 3300 out of a 24" barrel (my gun has a 24" barrel). Three of the shots ranged form 100-175 and those didn't exit. Terminal damage was unreal (like the 77 grain TMK destruction out of the 5.56) DRT. The lone doe around 225 had an exit. Classic behind the shoulder shot, quarter sized exit, deer ran 50 yards in a thicket. Last edited by fats; 01/16/24.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19117652 01/16/24 Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,116 Oklahomahunter Campfire Regular Oklahomahunter Campfire Regular Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,116 I’ve probably shot 40ish animals weighing from 100 to 650 pounds with either ELDX or AMAX bullets. I’ve killed LOTS more, but these would be the “big game” weight sample size. I don’t recall losing one, and anything that’s made it more than 50 yards wasn’t shot what I’d call correctly. I’ve used 75/80 grain in 22 caliber in either a 223 or 22-250, 150 gr in 7mm, and 178/210 in 30 caliber. The largest was a very large nilgai at 170 yards shot directly into the shoulder. There was no exit and he ran around 50 yards. That’s not the bullet I really wanted to use, but it’s what I had and it worked. I’ve had great luck on deer and pigs using the 150gr in my 7-08. Shots from 10-450 yards have all resulted in dead deer, and most have been dead within 10-15 yards.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots TrueGrit #19117660 01/16/24 Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 60,180 Likes: 20 Banana Belt, Montana M Mule Deer Campfire Kahuna Mule Deer Campfire Kahuna M Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 60,180 Likes: 20 Banana Belt, Montana Originally Posted by TrueGrit Originally Posted by Mule Deer Originally Posted by sbhooper In my opinion, the old SST was garbage. I had them come apart on small white-tailed does, shot from a moderate-velocity .308. Never again would I use that bullet. The old SST was garbage, but as Nosler did with the early, fragile Ballistic Tips, Hornady fixed the SSTS not long after the initial poor results. Among several instances I've witnessed in the past several years Including bull elk taken with a 180 SST from a Hornady factory load) was a hunt I went on in South Texas in 2017 with some other gun-industry people. We all used Franchi Momentum bolt-action rifles in .308 Winchester and factory ammo with the 150-grain SST at a listed 2820 fps. We took 20 whitetails and pigs--and never recovered a bullet, so don't know how much weight the bullets retained. The biggest buck weighed around 200 pounds on the ranch scale, and was taken at around 100 yards, almost facing the hunter. The bullet entered the chest inside the left shoulder and exited the right ham. The biggest pig also weighed right around 200, and was shot through both shoulders at around 60 yards--and the bullet broke both shoulders and exited. With that said, what would you expect the SST to do at longer ranges and lower velocities? And why can't the bullet companies make a partition or interlock bullet with a high BC? What do you consider a high BC? “Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19117919 01/16/24 Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 1,659 R Riflehunter Campfire Regular Riflehunter Campfire Regular R Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 1,659 I consider a bc over .500 for many bullets I use as acceptable and over .600 as high. For example, the .308 180 grain Accubond has a bc of .507 which is acceptable. A 140 grain .270 bullet is acceptable to me if the bc is over .500 such as the TGK and Berger, the Badlands 140 has a .650 bc which is high. The 100 grain 6mm TGK has an acceptable bc of .515, whereas the Badlands 100 grain 6mm has a high bc of .600. A 225 grain .338 TTSX at .514 bc is acceptable and a 225 E-tip in .338 at around .600 is high. But of course, the heavier for caliber the bullet is, the higher the bc it needs to have to be "high" or "acceptable" for example a 175 grain .277 bullet with a bc of just over .500 isn't acceptable to me.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Riflehunter #19117936 01/16/24 Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 8,901 Likes: 1 Montana P prairie_goat Campfire Outfitter prairie_goat Campfire Outfitter P Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 8,901 Likes: 1 Montana Originally Posted by Riflehunter I consider a bc over .500 for many bullets I use as acceptable... Acceptable for what purpose? Does that mean a bullet with a sub-.500 bc is unacceptable?

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots prairie_goat #19117944 01/16/24 Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 1,659 R Riflehunter Campfire Regular Riflehunter Campfire Regular R Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 1,659 Originally Posted by prairie_goat Originally Posted by Riflehunter I consider a bc over .500 for many bullets I use as acceptable... Acceptable for what purpose? Does that mean a bullet with a sub-.500 bc is unacceptable? Sub -.500 bc is unacceptable for me for a hunting bullet. Especially if there are alternative bullets of that weight that fall into the "acceptable" category. Except when talking cartridges designed for short range such as on dangerous game or smaller bores such as .224 or less. It is the year 2024, bullet manufacturers should be able to manufacture bullets that are accurate, reasonable bc, good terminal performance and without them being excessively expensive. Last edited by Riflehunter; 01/16/24.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19118377 01/17/24 Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 8,235 Likes: 1 PA Teeder Campfire Outfitter Teeder Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 8,235 Likes: 1 PA Luckily for me, I don't need to shoot very far, so bc is completely irrelevant. I could load a Partition in backwards and still get by.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Riflehunter #19118807 01/17/24 Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 8,901 Likes: 1 Montana P prairie_goat Campfire Outfitter prairie_goat Campfire Outfitter P Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 8,901 Likes: 1 Montana Originally Posted by Riflehunter Originally Posted by prairie_goat Originally Posted by Riflehunter I consider a bc over .500 for many bullets I use as acceptable... Acceptable for what purpose? Does that mean a bullet with a sub-.500 bc is unacceptable? Sub -.500 bc is unacceptable for me for a hunting bullet. Especially if there are alternative bullets of that weight that fall into the "acceptable" category. Except when talking cartridges designed for short range such as on dangerous game or smaller bores such as .224 or less. It is the year 2024, bullet manufacturers should be able to manufacture bullets that are accurate, reasonable bc, good terminal performance and without them being excessively expensive. Have you seen a difference in the field between an acceptable bc bullet and an unacceptable bullet? Say for instance you made a shot with a 140 grain 270 Berger that you wouldn't have been able to make with a 140 Partition due to a wind call, or perhaps you experienced inadequate terminal performance from a 140 Partition at the lower end of its velocity envelope?

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots prairie_goat #19119435 01/17/24 Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 1,659 R Riflehunter Campfire Regular Riflehunter Campfire Regular R Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 1,659 Originally Posted by prairie_goat Originally Posted by Riflehunter Originally Posted by prairie_goat Originally Posted by Riflehunter I consider a bc over .500 for many bullets I use as acceptable... Acceptable for what purpose? Does that mean a bullet with a sub-.500 bc is unacceptable? Sub -.500 bc is unacceptable for me for a hunting bullet. Especially if there are alternative bullets of that weight that fall into the "acceptable" category. Except when talking cartridges designed for short range such as on dangerous game or smaller bores such as .224 or less. It is the year 2024, bullet manufacturers should be able to manufacture bullets that are accurate, reasonable bc, good terminal performance and without them being excessively expensive. Have you seen a difference in the field between an acceptable bc bullet and an unacceptable bullet? Say for instance you made a shot with a 140 grain 270 Berger that you wouldn't have been able to make with a 140 Partition due to a wind call, or perhaps you experienced inadequate terminal performance from a 140 Partition at the lower end of its velocity envelope? What happens is rather than see differences in performance on game between two bullets with different attributes such as bc, accuracy or terminal performance is you get to know what that particular bullet does or doesn't do well, and you adjust your hunting style accordingly, to minimize the risk of failure. For example, on a very long shot in the mountains with a strong wind, you simply do not take the shot which you might otherwise attempt with a higher bc bullet that is very accurate. But this happens only at the margin, in a very small percentage of shots. Again, on long shots, you tend to know that Bergers often give a higher percentage of DRT's where finding something that you shoot might be difficult. So that's the situation rather than "if you hit them in the vitals with either bullet they won't know the difference". Another area where you adjust your hunting style is on close range shots with bullets that, from experience, you know come apart easily. Instead of taking a shoulder shot that may anchor them faster with a tougher bullet, you might shoot into the lungs and avoid the shoulder...and they often run further. Or in thick cover, you avoid the shots at running game that you might otherwise take with a stouter bullet. Last edited by Riflehunter; 01/17/24.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19119463 01/17/24 Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 8,901 Likes: 1 Montana P prairie_goat Campfire Outfitter prairie_goat Campfire Outfitter P Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 8,901 Likes: 1 Montana So you have avoided real world shots because of bc differences, or due to bullet construction differences? If so, I'd be interested in reading about the circumstances.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots prairie_goat #19119552 01/17/24 Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 1,659 R Riflehunter Campfire Regular Riflehunter Campfire Regular R Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 1,659 Originally Posted by prairie_goat So you have avoided real world shots because of bc differences, or due to bullet construction differences? If so, I'd be interested in reading about the circumstances. Two examples where I avoided a shot: A monster blacktail in thick cover that saw me first and the only opportunity for a shot was a Texas heart shot before he disappeared. Didn't take the shot which I otherwise may have, if I had Barnes TSX loaded. Never saw him again. Another instance was on an overseas hunt high in the mountains of NZ after chamois. Avoided a 410 yard shot because of wind. Decided to stalk around the back of the mountain for a close shot. He was gone when I got to within 150 yards...never to be seen again. There are other instances as well such as an 850 yard shot that I had to empty the magazine before he was completely dead - the Bergers were accurate and had good terminal performance, but their bc wasn't very high and were getting blown around, together with shooter error. I don't shoot over 600 yards now (except for a 605 yard shot).

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19119776 01/17/24 Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 8,901 Likes: 1 Montana P prairie_goat Campfire Outfitter prairie_goat Campfire Outfitter P Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 8,901 Likes: 1 Montana Thank you for sharing your experiences. It's certainly nice to have a setup that will work both near and far, as in my experience when one sets up for one extreme or the other, Mr. Murphy will arrive with his lawbook to present me with a shot that is the antithesis of what I had initially planned!

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19119785 01/17/24 Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 3,032 Likes: 4 NW Oregon B bowmanh Campfire Tracker bowmanh Campfire Tracker B Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 3,032 Likes: 4 NW Oregon Unless you are doing quite a bit of shooting past 400 yards, high BC's don't make all that much difference. I use a lot of Accubonds and they have decent BC's, mostly .450+ to a bit over .500 in the bullet weights and calibers that I use. I also use some mono's, mostly TTSX's, and they have slightly lower BC's than the Accubonds, especially since I usually move down a bullet weight with monos. But I am more likely to take a shot at 100 yards than over 400, so I want bullets that will perform at close ranges, even on angling shots. I'm not willing to trade a slightly higher BC for reliable performance at close range.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Mule Deer #19119868 01/17/24 Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 5,182 Likes: 1 Middle Georgia T TrueGrit Campfire Tracker TrueGrit Campfire Tracker T Joined: Jan 2020 Posts: 5,182 Likes: 1 Middle Georgia Originally Posted by Mule Deer Originally Posted by TrueGrit Originally Posted by Mule Deer Originally Posted by sbhooper In my opinion, the old SST was garbage. I had them come apart on small white-tailed does, shot from a moderate-velocity .308. Never again would I use that bullet. The old SST was garbage, but as Nosler did with the early, fragile Ballistic Tips, Hornady fixed the SSTS not long after the initial poor results. Among several instances I've witnessed in the past several years Including bull elk taken with a 180 SST from a Hornady factory load) was a hunt I went on in South Texas in 2017 with some other gun-industry people. We all used Franchi Momentum bolt-action rifles in .308 Winchester and factory ammo with the 150-grain SST at a listed 2820 fps. We took 20 whitetails and pigs--and never recovered a bullet, so don't know how much weight the bullets retained. The biggest buck weighed around 200 pounds on the ranch scale, and was taken at around 100 yards, almost facing the hunter. The bullet entered the chest inside the left shoulder and exited the right ham. The biggest pig also weighed right around 200, and was shot through both shoulders at around 60 yards--and the bullet broke both shoulders and exited. With that said, what would you expect the SST to do at longer ranges and lower velocities? And why can't the bullet companies make a partition or interlock bullet with a high BC? What do you consider a high BC? A BC of .500 would be acceptable, I'd rather have a BC of .600+ but not sure if it's actually needed. We like to hunt and target shoot with the same rifles and bullets. A 300wm shooting Barnes 168gr TTSX runs out of bullet past 1000yds, and you can't hit steel at 1200yds. Likewise when shooting 205gr Burger bullets with a higher BC hitting steel at 1200yds. isn't a problem. Life is good live it while you can.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots prairie_goat #19120033 01/17/24 Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 1,659 R Riflehunter Campfire Regular Riflehunter Campfire Regular R Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 1,659 Originally Posted by prairie_goat Thank you for sharing your experiences. It's certainly nice to have a setup that will work both near and far, as in my experience when one sets up for one extreme or the other, Mr. Murphy will arrive with his lawbook to present me with a shot that is the antithesis of what I had initially planned! And that is often what happens when you hunt in unfamiliar territory, where you expect the shots to be short range and it turns out the animal just happens to be in open country 350-450 yards away. So you end up taking a rifle and load that will work well for the longer shots but not perfect for thick cover (e.g. 20 inch barrel short action and lower bc bullets but with excellent close-range terminal performance). Last edited by Riflehunter; 01/17/24.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19122741 01/18/24 Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 8,901 Likes: 1 Montana P prairie_goat Campfire Outfitter prairie_goat Campfire Outfitter P Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 8,901 Likes: 1 Montana Yep. We more often see that mismatch in the opposite direction. Folks have visions in their heads that "Western" hunting is all long range shot opportunities, so sometimes will have clients who pack rifles with high powered scopes set up for uber distance, then they'll struggle when they're presented with a close range shot in the timber.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots prairie_goat #19124070 01/18/24 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Originally Posted by prairie_goat Originally Posted by Riflehunter Originally Posted by prairie_goat Originally Posted by Riflehunter I consider a bc over .500 for many bullets I use as acceptable... Acceptable for what purpose? Does that mean a bullet with a sub-.500 bc is unacceptable? Sub -.500 bc is unacceptable for me for a hunting bullet. Especially if there are alternative bullets of that weight that fall into the "acceptable" category. Except when talking cartridges designed for short range such as on dangerous game or smaller bores such as .224 or less. It is the year 2024, bullet manufacturers should be able to manufacture bullets that are accurate, reasonable bc, good terminal performance and without them being excessively expensive. Have you seen a difference in the field between an acceptable bc bullet and an unacceptable bullet? Say for instance you made a shot with a 140 grain 270 Berger that you wouldn't have been able to make with a 140 Partition due to a wind call, or perhaps you experienced inadequate terminal performance from a 140 Partition at the lower end of its velocity envelope? Years ago, I made a bad shot on a MD at about 300 yards due to a howling wind that caused more bullet drift than I anticipated. For conversation, the bullet I was shooting at the time, the 100 gr Sierra SBT launched at 3300 fps from a .25-06, drifts about 22" in a 30 mph full-value wind at 300 yards, while the 147 gr ELD-M fired at 2697 fps from a 6.5CM drifts 8" in the same wind at the same distance. I believe my hasty underestimate of the wind would have caused less of a problem that day if I had been shooting the higher-BC, but slower, 147 ELD rather than the 100 gr SBT.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots prairie_goat #19124071 01/18/24 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Originally Posted by prairie_goat Yep. We more often see that mismatch in the opposite direction. Folks have visions in their heads that "Western" hunting is all long range shot opportunities, so sometimes will have clients who pack rifles with high powered scopes set up for uber distance, then they'll struggle when they're presented with a close range shot in the timber. I'd certainly agree with that.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Jordan Smith #19124192 01/18/24 Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA B beretzs Campfire Ranger beretzs Campfire Ranger B Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Originally Posted by prairie_goat Originally Posted by Riflehunter Originally Posted by prairie_goat Originally Posted by Riflehunter I consider a bc over .500 for many bullets I use as acceptable... Acceptable for what purpose? Does that mean a bullet with a sub-.500 bc is unacceptable? Sub -.500 bc is unacceptable for me for a hunting bullet. Especially if there are alternative bullets of that weight that fall into the "acceptable" category. Except when talking cartridges designed for short range such as on dangerous game or smaller bores such as .224 or less. It is the year 2024, bullet manufacturers should be able to manufacture bullets that are accurate, reasonable bc, good terminal performance and without them being excessively expensive. Have you seen a difference in the field between an acceptable bc bullet and an unacceptable bullet? Say for instance you made a shot with a 140 grain 270 Berger that you wouldn't have been able to make with a 140 Partition due to a wind call, or perhaps you experienced inadequate terminal performance from a 140 Partition at the lower end of its velocity envelope? Years ago, I made a bad shot on a MD at about 300 yards due to a howling wind that caused more bullet drift than I anticipated. For conversation, the bullet I was shooting at the time, the 100 gr Sierra SBT launched at 3300 fps from a .25-06, drifts about 22" in a 30 mph full-value wind at 300 yards, while the 147 gr ELD-M fired at 2697 fps from a 6.5CM drifts 8" in the same wind at the same distance. I believe my hasty underestimate of the wind would have caused less of a problem that day if I had been shooting the higher-BC, but slower, 147 ELD rather than the 100 gr SBT. That's a damned solid example of why BC don't hurt us short rangers either! I like both of them, and shoot both, but it is good to have the knowledge to make smart decision. Not sharp shooting, but I get 14" of drift from the CM. The 25-06 of 22" is on. Still quite a difference. Last edited by beretzs; 01/18/24. Semper Fi

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19124226 01/18/24 Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 17,438 David_Walter Campfire Ranger David_Walter Campfire Ranger Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 17,438 I live and hunt in the desert south east of WA State. I was hunting one year at a farm I’d hunted the previous three years. Shots were between 200 and 300 yards. So, I zeroed at 200 and practiced out to 600. And a mulie jumped up from a ditch at 80 yards and I was “huh?” I aimed low and fired killing him. Luckily, my 4-14 was dialed down to 4, or I’d have lost him. When I take friends deer hunting now, I advise them to bring a 2-12, 3-15 or 4-16. The top magnifications are more than enough to clearly count points, and the bottom end is still useful for “jump shooting.” “Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots David_Walter #19124264 01/18/24 Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 1,659 R Riflehunter Campfire Regular Riflehunter Campfire Regular R Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 1,659 Originally Posted by David_Walter I live and hunt in the desert south east of WA State. I was hunting one year at a farm I’d hunted the previous three years. Shots were between 200 and 300 yards. So, I zeroed at 200 and practiced out to 600. And a mulie jumped up from a ditch at 80 yards and I was “huh?” I aimed low and fired killing him. Luckily, my 4-14 was dialed down to 4, or I’d have lost him. When I take friends deer hunting now, I advise them to bring a 2-12, 3-15 or 4-16. The top magnifications are more than enough to clearly count points, and the bottom end is still useful for “jump shooting.” Always walk around on low power such as 4 and zoom up if necessary...not the other way around.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots beretzs #19124279 01/18/24 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Originally Posted by beretzs Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Originally Posted by prairie_goat Originally Posted by Riflehunter Originally Posted by prairie_goat Originally Posted by Riflehunter I consider a bc over .500 for many bullets I use as acceptable... Acceptable for what purpose? Does that mean a bullet with a sub-.500 bc is unacceptable? Sub -.500 bc is unacceptable for me for a hunting bullet. Especially if there are alternative bullets of that weight that fall into the "acceptable" category. Except when talking cartridges designed for short range such as on dangerous game or smaller bores such as .224 or less. It is the year 2024, bullet manufacturers should be able to manufacture bullets that are accurate, reasonable bc, good terminal performance and without them being excessively expensive. Have you seen a difference in the field between an acceptable bc bullet and an unacceptable bullet? Say for instance you made a shot with a 140 grain 270 Berger that you wouldn't have been able to make with a 140 Partition due to a wind call, or perhaps you experienced inadequate terminal performance from a 140 Partition at the lower end of its velocity envelope? Years ago, I made a bad shot on a MD at about 300 yards due to a howling wind that caused more bullet drift than I anticipated. For conversation, the bullet I was shooting at the time, the 100 gr Sierra SBT launched at 3300 fps from a .25-06, drifts about 22" in a 30 mph full-value wind at 300 yards, while the 147 gr ELD-M fired at 2697 fps from a 6.5CM drifts 8" in the same wind at the same distance. I believe my hasty underestimate of the wind would have caused less of a problem that day if I had been shooting the higher-BC, but slower, 147 ELD rather than the 100 gr SBT. That's a damned solid example of why BC don't hurt us short rangers either! I like both of them, and shoot both, but it is good to have the knowledge to make smart decision. Not sharp shooting, but I get 14" of drift from the CM. The 25-06 of 22" is on. Still quite a difference. Yessir, my mistake. Thanks for pointing that out. I had the Coriolis effect and spin drift turned on in the 6.5CM profile of my app. With those confounding variables turned off, and isolating for just wind drift, I get 12.5" of drift for the 147 ELD and 25" for the 100 SBT, in my selected atmospheric conditions and 30 mph of FV wind.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots beretzs #19124296 01/18/24 Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 1,659 R Riflehunter Campfire Regular Riflehunter Campfire Regular R Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 1,659 Originally Posted by beretzs Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Originally Posted by prairie_goat Originally Posted by Riflehunter Originally Posted by prairie_goat Originally Posted by Riflehunter I consider a bc over .500 for many bullets I use as acceptable... Acceptable for what purpose? Does that mean a bullet with a sub-.500 bc is unacceptable? Sub -.500 bc is unacceptable for me for a hunting bullet. Especially if there are alternative bullets of that weight that fall into the "acceptable" category. Except when talking cartridges designed for short range such as on dangerous game or smaller bores such as .224 or less. It is the year 2024, bullet manufacturers should be able to manufacture bullets that are accurate, reasonable bc, good terminal performance and without them being excessively expensive. Have you seen a difference in the field between an acceptable bc bullet and an unacceptable bullet? Say for instance you made a shot with a 140 grain 270 Berger that you wouldn't have been able to make with a 140 Partition due to a wind call, or perhaps you experienced inadequate terminal performance from a 140 Partition at the lower end of its velocity envelope? Years ago, I made a bad shot on a MD at about 300 yards due to a howling wind that caused more bullet drift than I anticipated. For conversation, the bullet I was shooting at the time, the 100 gr Sierra SBT launched at 3300 fps from a .25-06, drifts about 22" in a 30 mph full-value wind at 300 yards, while the 147 gr ELD-M fired at 2697 fps from a 6.5CM drifts 8" in the same wind at the same distance. I believe my hasty underestimate of the wind would have caused less of a problem that day if I had been shooting the higher-BC, but slower, 147 ELD rather than the 100 gr SBT. That's a damned solid example of why BC don't hurt us short rangers either! I like both of them, and shoot both, but it is good to have the knowledge to make smart decision. Not sharp shooting, but I get 14" of drift from the CM. The 25-06 of 22" is on. Still quite a difference. Even if the wind isn't blowing that hard as in the above example, but is only slight or multi-directional (swirling), the higher bc bullet is more likely to still be in the vital zone if you aim without allowing for wind-drift.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Jordan Smith #19124300 01/18/24 Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA B beretzs Campfire Ranger beretzs Campfire Ranger B Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Originally Posted by beretzs Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Originally Posted by prairie_goat Originally Posted by Riflehunter Originally Posted by prairie_goat Originally Posted by Riflehunter I consider a bc over .500 for many bullets I use as acceptable... Acceptable for what purpose? Does that mean a bullet with a sub-.500 bc is unacceptable? Sub -.500 bc is unacceptable for me for a hunting bullet. Especially if there are alternative bullets of that weight that fall into the "acceptable" category. Except when talking cartridges designed for short range such as on dangerous game or smaller bores such as .224 or less. It is the year 2024, bullet manufacturers should be able to manufacture bullets that are accurate, reasonable bc, good terminal performance and without them being excessively expensive. Have you seen a difference in the field between an acceptable bc bullet and an unacceptable bullet? Say for instance you made a shot with a 140 grain 270 Berger that you wouldn't have been able to make with a 140 Partition due to a wind call, or perhaps you experienced inadequate terminal performance from a 140 Partition at the lower end of its velocity envelope? Years ago, I made a bad shot on a MD at about 300 yards due to a howling wind that caused more bullet drift than I anticipated. For conversation, the bullet I was shooting at the time, the 100 gr Sierra SBT launched at 3300 fps from a .25-06, drifts about 22" in a 30 mph full-value wind at 300 yards, while the 147 gr ELD-M fired at 2697 fps from a 6.5CM drifts 8" in the same wind at the same distance. I believe my hasty underestimate of the wind would have caused less of a problem that day if I had been shooting the higher-BC, but slower, 147 ELD rather than the 100 gr SBT. That's a damned solid example of why BC don't hurt us short rangers either! I like both of them, and shoot both, but it is good to have the knowledge to make smart decision. Not sharp shooting, but I get 14" of drift from the CM. The 25-06 of 22" is on. Still quite a difference. Yessir, my mistake. Thanks for pointing that out. I had the Coriolis effect and spin drift turned on in the 6.5CM profile of my app. With those confounding variables turned off, and isolating for just wind drift, I get 12.5" of drift for the 147 ELD and 25" for the 100 SBT, in my selected atmospheric conditions and 30 mph of FV wind. No sweat, didn't mean to sharp shoot. The gist is 1/2 as much basically and you'd likely had a bit less of a rodeo. Semper Fi

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots beretzs #19124308 01/18/24 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Originally Posted by beretzs Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Originally Posted by beretzs Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Originally Posted by prairie_goat Originally Posted by Riflehunter Originally Posted by prairie_goat Originally Posted by Riflehunter I consider a bc over .500 for many bullets I use as acceptable... Acceptable for what purpose? Does that mean a bullet with a sub-.500 bc is unacceptable? Sub -.500 bc is unacceptable for me for a hunting bullet. Especially if there are alternative bullets of that weight that fall into the "acceptable" category. Except when talking cartridges designed for short range such as on dangerous game or smaller bores such as .224 or less. It is the year 2024, bullet manufacturers should be able to manufacture bullets that are accurate, reasonable bc, good terminal performance and without them being excessively expensive. Have you seen a difference in the field between an acceptable bc bullet and an unacceptable bullet? Say for instance you made a shot with a 140 grain 270 Berger that you wouldn't have been able to make with a 140 Partition due to a wind call, or perhaps you experienced inadequate terminal performance from a 140 Partition at the lower end of its velocity envelope? Years ago, I made a bad shot on a MD at about 300 yards due to a howling wind that caused more bullet drift than I anticipated. For conversation, the bullet I was shooting at the time, the 100 gr Sierra SBT launched at 3300 fps from a .25-06, drifts about 22" in a 30 mph full-value wind at 300 yards, while the 147 gr ELD-M fired at 2697 fps from a 6.5CM drifts 8" in the same wind at the same distance. I believe my hasty underestimate of the wind would have caused less of a problem that day if I had been shooting the higher-BC, but slower, 147 ELD rather than the 100 gr SBT. That's a damned solid example of why BC don't hurt us short rangers either! I like both of them, and shoot both, but it is good to have the knowledge to make smart decision. Not sharp shooting, but I get 14" of drift from the CM. The 25-06 of 22" is on. Still quite a difference. Yessir, my mistake. Thanks for pointing that out. I had the Coriolis effect and spin drift turned on in the 6.5CM profile of my app. With those confounding variables turned off, and isolating for just wind drift, I get 12.5" of drift for the 147 ELD and 25" for the 100 SBT, in my selected atmospheric conditions and 30 mph of FV wind. No sweat, didn't mean to sharp shoot. The gist is 1/2 as much basically and you'd likely had a bit less of a rodeo. Yup. Still plenty of difference between them to have an impact in the field. In the scenario I described, if a guy mistakenly judges the wind speed at half of the true value, he'll be 6.25" off his POA with the 147 ELD, and 12.5" off with the 100 SBT.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19124316 01/18/24 Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA B beretzs Campfire Ranger beretzs Campfire Ranger B Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA For sure. That 147 is a demon. Semper Fi

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Riflehunter #19124319 01/18/24 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Originally Posted by Riflehunter Originally Posted by beretzs Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Originally Posted by prairie_goat Originally Posted by Riflehunter Originally Posted by prairie_goat Originally Posted by Riflehunter I consider a bc over .500 for many bullets I use as acceptable... Acceptable for what purpose? Does that mean a bullet with a sub-.500 bc is unacceptable? Sub -.500 bc is unacceptable for me for a hunting bullet. Especially if there are alternative bullets of that weight that fall into the "acceptable" category. Except when talking cartridges designed for short range such as on dangerous game or smaller bores such as .224 or less. It is the year 2024, bullet manufacturers should be able to manufacture bullets that are accurate, reasonable bc, good terminal performance and without them being excessively expensive. Have you seen a difference in the field between an acceptable bc bullet and an unacceptable bullet? Say for instance you made a shot with a 140 grain 270 Berger that you wouldn't have been able to make with a 140 Partition due to a wind call, or perhaps you experienced inadequate terminal performance from a 140 Partition at the lower end of its velocity envelope? Years ago, I made a bad shot on a MD at about 300 yards due to a howling wind that caused more bullet drift than I anticipated. For conversation, the bullet I was shooting at the time, the 100 gr Sierra SBT launched at 3300 fps from a .25-06, drifts about 22" in a 30 mph full-value wind at 300 yards, while the 147 gr ELD-M fired at 2697 fps from a 6.5CM drifts 8" in the same wind at the same distance. I believe my hasty underestimate of the wind would have caused less of a problem that day if I had been shooting the higher-BC, but slower, 147 ELD rather than the 100 gr SBT. That's a damned solid example of why BC don't hurt us short rangers either! I like both of them, and shoot both, but it is good to have the knowledge to make smart decision. Not sharp shooting, but I get 14" of drift from the CM. The 25-06 of 22" is on. Still quite a difference. Even if the wind isn't blowing that hard as in the above example, but is only slight or multi-directional (swirling), the higher bc bullet is more likely to still be in the vital zone if you aim without allowing for wind-drift. Exactly. BC value is proportional to allowance for error in wind estimation and correction.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19124343 01/18/24 Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 60,180 Likes: 20 Banana Belt, Montana M Mule Deer Campfire Kahuna Mule Deer Campfire Kahuna M Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 60,180 Likes: 20 Banana Belt, Montana A few comments: I've known prairie goat since 2010. He was a U.S. Army sniper in the Middle East for three tours, and has a also been a guide in Montana since his teens. He knows his stuff both about BC and hunting with various bullets, on game from pronghorns to elk. I have also been a guide in eastern Montana, and have seen the same assumptions/mistakes made by quite a few hunters, another reason to trust his comments. “Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Mule Deer #19125094 01/18/24 Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 1,659 R Riflehunter Campfire Regular Riflehunter Campfire Regular R Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 1,659 Originally Posted by Mule Deer A few comments: I've known prairie goat since 2010. He was a U.S. Army sniper in the Middle East for three tours, and has a also been a guide in Montana since his teens. He knows his stuff both about BC and hunting with various bullets, on game from pronghorns to elk. I have also been a guide in eastern Montana, and have seen the same assumptions/mistakes made by quite a few hunters, another reason to trust his comments. Well, it would be valuable to hear prairie goat's views on such things as: whether b.c. is important, bullet construction, whether bore size matters, the 6.5 CM, whether the .308 is a poor choice - given the experience he has. That's if he wants to.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19126551 01/19/24 Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 8,901 Likes: 1 Montana P prairie_goat Campfire Outfitter prairie_goat Campfire Outfitter P Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 8,901 Likes: 1 Montana I don’t think it much matters. Put a decent bullet at a decent speed into the vitals and stuff dies. The emphasis should be on ensuring the bullet is placed into the vitals, which means plenty of practice. More folks would be better off spending less time practicing long range and more time getting into position quickly and making shots at normal hunting ranges from a variety of field positions, as well as recognizing field expedient rests and quickly being able to utilize them. Have seen far more blown shot opportunities from people dicking around not getting into a solid position quickly than I have because of shots missed because of the distance. The practice issue brings me to the cartridge/bullet subject that is the most valuable in my mind: logistics. Being able to source a large supply of components that will ensure proper practice and a stash for hunting is a big deal. Having to rely on a boutique bullet maker (or even a company like Nosler, who seems to have a hard time coming up with component bullets) makes that sourcing expensive and difficult. I’ve gone to using 223s and 308s for most of my hunting because of that emphasis on streamlining of logistics. Make up a whole bunch of ammo in a variant that shoots fine in several rifles, and mass produce it. I also like to match speeds and BCs to where my 223s and 308s have basically the same trajectories and drift (within reason). Makes for easy transition between rifles. I certainly still dabble in experimenting with other rounds, but when it’s time to hit the hills I’ll grab a 223 or 308 the majority of the time.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19126581 01/19/24 Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA B beretzs Campfire Ranger beretzs Campfire Ranger B Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA PG what loads do you use to hunt with the 223 and 308 for hunting. Sounds like you’ve made your life simple mostly. Semper Fi

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19126634 01/19/24 Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 8,901 Likes: 1 Montana P prairie_goat Campfire Outfitter prairie_goat Campfire Outfitter P Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 8,901 Likes: 1 Montana 75 Amaxs and 155 Scenars over Varget are my primary loads. The simplicity is a big part of the appeal. It’s nice to just grab a box of ammo and a rifle and go hunting!

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19126661 01/19/24 Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA B beretzs Campfire Ranger beretzs Campfire Ranger B Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 15,337 Likes: 5 Northeast USA Makes sense to me. Semper Fi

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots prairie_goat #19126744 01/19/24 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Originally Posted by prairie_goat I don’t think it much matters. Put a decent bullet at a decent speed into the vitals and stuff dies. The emphasis should be on ensuring the bullet is placed into the vitals, which means plenty of practice. More folks would be better off spending less time practicing long range and more time getting into position quickly and making shots at normal hunting ranges from a variety of field positions, as well as recognizing field expedient rests and quickly being able to utilize them. Have seen far more blown shot opportunities from people dicking around not getting into a solid position quickly than I have because of shots missed because of the distance. This is one of the benefits of practical-style rifle matches; they give participants practice both in SR and LR shooting and in quickly devising and building solid shooting positions in field-type conditions. I will point out that high BC is very useful in accomplishing the two criteria that you mentioned, a bullet arriving at the intended POI at a decent speed. BC value isn't black and white, sufficient or insufficient. It's a continuous scale of helping the shooter place the bullet correctly and ensure it expands correctly when it arrives on target.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots prairie_goat #19126779 01/19/24 Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,854 Smoky Mountains, TN bwinters OP Campfire Outfitter OP bwinters Campfire Outfitter Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,854 Smoky Mountains, TN Originally Posted by prairie_goat 75 Amaxs and 155 Scenars over Varget are my primary loads. The simplicity is a big part of the appeal. It’s nice to just grab a box of ammo and a rifle and go hunting! How do those 155 Scenars act on elk at 308 vels both up close and out a ways? Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19127221 01/19/24 Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 8,901 Likes: 1 Montana P prairie_goat Campfire Outfitter prairie_goat Campfire Outfitter P Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 8,901 Likes: 1 Montana Originally Posted by bwinters Originally Posted by prairie_goat 75 Amaxs and 155 Scenars over Varget are my primary loads. The simplicity is a big part of the appeal. It’s nice to just grab a box of ammo and a rifle and go hunting! How do those 155 Scenars act on elk at 308 vels both up close and out a ways? As I recall the elk I've shot with Scenars were all medium range - like 200-300 yards or somewhere in there. The 155 Scenars like to exit! Frankly I've shot more elk with a 223, and it works fine too

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots prairie_goat #19127273 01/19/24 Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,854 Smoky Mountains, TN bwinters OP Campfire Outfitter OP bwinters Campfire Outfitter Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,854 Smoky Mountains, TN Thanks! Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots prairie_goat #19127406 01/19/24 Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 1,659 R Riflehunter Campfire Regular Riflehunter Campfire Regular R Joined: Aug 2021 Posts: 1,659 Originally Posted by prairie_goat I don’t think it much matters. Put a decent bullet at a decent speed into the vitals and stuff dies. The emphasis should be on ensuring the bullet is placed into the vitals, which means plenty of practice. More folks would be better off spending less time practicing long range and more time getting into position quickly and making shots at normal hunting ranges from a variety of field positions, as well as recognizing field expedient rests and quickly being able to utilize them. Have seen far more blown shot opportunities from people dicking around not getting into a solid position quickly than I have because of shots missed because of the distance. The practice issue brings me to the cartridge/bullet subject that is the most valuable in my mind: logistics. Being able to source a large supply of components that will ensure proper practice and a stash for hunting is a big deal. Having to rely on a boutique bullet maker (or even a company like Nosler, who seems to have a hard time coming up with component bullets) makes that sourcing expensive and difficult. I’ve gone to using 223s and 308s for most of my hunting because of that emphasis on streamlining of logistics. Make up a whole bunch of ammo in a variant that shoots fine in several rifles, and mass produce it. I also like to match speeds and BCs to where my 223s and 308s have basically the same trajectories and drift (within reason). Makes for easy transition between rifles. I certainly still dabble in experimenting with other rounds, but when it’s time to hit the hills I’ll grab a 223 or 308 the majority of the time. PG, thanks for your insights.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots prairie_goat #19127785 01/19/24 Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,575 AZ T Talus_in_Arizona Campfire Tracker Talus_in_Arizona Campfire Tracker T Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,575 AZ Originally Posted by prairie_goat I don’t think it much matters. Put a decent bullet at a decent speed into the vitals and stuff dies. The emphasis should be on ensuring the bullet is placed into the vitals, which means plenty of practice. More folks would be better off spending less time practicing long range and more time getting into position quickly and making shots at normal hunting ranges from a variety of field positions, as well as recognizing field expedient rests and quickly being able to utilize them. Have seen far more blown shot opportunities from people dicking around not getting into a solid position quickly than I have because of shots missed because of the distance. The practice issue brings me to the cartridge/bullet subject that is the most valuable in my mind: logistics. Being able to source a large supply of components that will ensure proper practice and a stash for hunting is a big deal. Having to rely on a boutique bullet maker (or even a company like Nosler, who seems to have a hard time coming up with component bullets) makes that sourcing expensive and difficult. I’ve gone to using 223s and 308s for most of my hunting because of that emphasis on streamlining of logistics. Make up a whole bunch of ammo in a variant that shoots fine in several rifles, and mass produce it. I also like to match speeds and BCs to where my 223s and 308s have basically the same trajectories and drift (within reason). Makes for easy transition between rifles. I certainly still dabble in experimenting with other rounds, but when it’s time to hit the hills I’ll grab a 223 or 308 the majority of the time. I’m so old I remember when Nosler was not a boutique bullet maker. I do not entertain hypotheticals. The world itself is vexing enough. -- Col. Stonehill

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots Jordan Smith #19132711 01/21/24 Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 8,901 Likes: 1 Montana P prairie_goat Campfire Outfitter prairie_goat Campfire Outfitter P Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 8,901 Likes: 1 Montana Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Originally Posted by prairie_goat I don’t think it much matters. Put a decent bullet at a decent speed into the vitals and stuff dies. The emphasis should be on ensuring the bullet is placed into the vitals, which means plenty of practice. More folks would be better off spending less time practicing long range and more time getting into position quickly and making shots at normal hunting ranges from a variety of field positions, as well as recognizing field expedient rests and quickly being able to utilize them. Have seen far more blown shot opportunities from people dicking around not getting into a solid position quickly than I have because of shots missed because of the distance. This is one of the benefits of practical-style rifle matches; they give participants practice both in SR and LR shooting and in quickly devising and building solid shooting positions in field-type conditions. I will point out that high BC is very useful in accomplishing the two criteria that you mentioned, a bullet arriving at the intended POI at a decent speed. BC value isn't black and white, sufficient or insufficient. It's a continuous scale of helping the shooter place the bullet correctly and ensure it expands correctly when it arrives on target. Practical-style rifle matches are an option, but at the same time they aren't very practical for a lot of shooters, whether because of a lack of desire to compete against others, or the time and expense involved with attending a shoot (for a lot of folks, taking a weekend off from their duties and driving several hundred miles isn't an option). Something like Carl Ross' Positional Drill is something I use and recommend. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...ositional-drill-postal-match#Post9213006 Doesn't take much in the way of specialized equipment, and only takes a 100 yard range that allows the rifleman to shoot in positions other than the bench, which opens the training availability up to a lot of folks who don't have access to a long range facility. Also doesn't take a lot of ammo, only 20 rounds per session, so not terribly expensive to get into for the average hunter. A hunter may certainly modify the drill as they see fit to suit their physical abilities or equipment, like for instance I don't use shooting sticks, so generally do the drill as offhand, kneeling, sitting, and prone.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots prairie_goat #19134326 01/21/24 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Originally Posted by prairie_goat Originally Posted by Jordan Smith Originally Posted by prairie_goat I don’t think it much matters. Put a decent bullet at a decent speed into the vitals and stuff dies. The emphasis should be on ensuring the bullet is placed into the vitals, which means plenty of practice. More folks would be better off spending less time practicing long range and more time getting into position quickly and making shots at normal hunting ranges from a variety of field positions, as well as recognizing field expedient rests and quickly being able to utilize them. Have seen far more blown shot opportunities from people dicking around not getting into a solid position quickly than I have because of shots missed because of the distance. This is one of the benefits of practical-style rifle matches; they give participants practice both in SR and LR shooting and in quickly devising and building solid shooting positions in field-type conditions. I will point out that high BC is very useful in accomplishing the two criteria that you mentioned, a bullet arriving at the intended POI at a decent speed. BC value isn't black and white, sufficient or insufficient. It's a continuous scale of helping the shooter place the bullet correctly and ensure it expands correctly when it arrives on target. Practical-style rifle matches are an option, but at the same time they aren't very practical for a lot of shooters, whether because of a lack of desire to compete against others, or the time and expense involved with attending a shoot (for a lot of folks, taking a weekend off from their duties and driving several hundred miles isn't an option). Something like Carl Ross' Positional Drill is something I use and recommend. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...ositional-drill-postal-match#Post9213006 Doesn't take much in the way of specialized equipment, and only takes a 100 yard range that allows the rifleman to shoot in positions other than the bench, which opens the training availability up to a lot of folks who don't have access to a long range facility. Also doesn't take a lot of ammo, only 20 rounds per session, so not terribly expensive to get into for the average hunter. A hunter may certainly modify the drill as they see fit to suit their physical abilities or equipment, like for instance I don't use shooting sticks, so generally do the drill as offhand, kneeling, sitting, and prone. I agree that any training is better than none, but having spent a lot of time shooting various drills, including shooting Carl’s a number of times, it is certainly not a replacement for a PRS- or NRL-style match. I realize that shooting such matches, even at a local or club level, isn’t feasible for everyone, but I strongly encourage anyone who wants to improve their field shooting and is able to participate, to do so. NRL-Hunter matches seem especially relevant. Even if a person has no desire to compete against others, the variety and novelty of stages presents new and interesting challenges that test and improve a shooter’s ability to adapt and improvise in the moment, and the pressure of shooting on the clock and in front of spectators creates resilience and the ability to perform when in high-pressure situations. Of course, Carl’s drill tries to replicate some of these elements as much as possible, but it’s just not the same level of training. As an example of its relevance, I have had my son participate with me in small, local matches as he was becoming old enough (12 years old) and preparing to hunt BG here in AB. As a result, he was well-prepared for field shooting when he finally had his own tags to fill. His first deer was a WT doe at 70 meters that he killed from sitting while holding the rifle against an improvised rest (tree trunk). Chip shot. The next day, he felt confident and prepared enough to kill a yearling MD at about 375 meters from a low standing position (locked knees, bent at the hips) while resting the rifle against a large hay bale. The shot was placed perfectly. That is a shot he has practiced many times, thanks to his training and participation in matches that have simulated that shooting position and those types of distances. I’ll reiterate again, however, that I strongly agree with you that any type of drill and training is good, and if shooting in a match or two is not feasible, drills like Carl’s are fantastic training to improve one’s field shooting skills.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19134781 01/21/24 Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 1,718 Likes: 11 P pathfinder76 Campfire Regular pathfinder76 Campfire Regular P Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 1,718 Likes: 11 Gopher hunting on foot as a kid with a 22 in hand does as good a job as anything. Had lots of 500 plus kill days

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots pathfinder76 #19135021 01/21/24 Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Jordan Smith Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 14,543 Likes: 6 Calgary, AB, Canada Originally Posted by pathfinder76 Gopher hunting on foot as a kid with a 22 in hand does as good a job as anything. Had lots of 500 plus kill days Gopher fields are great. Heading to the field every day after school while growing up was fantastic for honing field shooting skills.

Re: ELDX bullets and close shots bwinters #19138143 01/22/24 Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 1,718 Likes: 11 P pathfinder76 Campfire Regular pathfinder76 Campfire Regular P Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 1,718 Likes: 11 It sure is. And about the most fun a kid, or grown man, can have.