Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Reloading advice.

I have a M70XTR fwt 7X57 (early1985), with a long throat. Doesn't shoot any factory very well (should do better!), tho the 175 RN gave the best group. I tried different powder loads of IMR 4350 to listed OAL, no improvement in accuracy using primed new Winchester brass that came with the rifle. I figure the jump to lands per the 175 indication is part of the problem, so reloads are the way I'm going.

I am going to try some just purchased 3031 per Seafire's posts, and load them out beyond listed 3.000 OAL but not beyond bullet diameter seating depth. No prob - mag length is 3.165, and some I've just done out to lands feed fine.

I have loaded the remaining new, primed Win brass, 5 ea. from 35 gr to 40, 1 grain increments. OAL is .002 to .007 from lands depending on tip deformation, I guess, using Sierra 150 gr SPBT, which most reached the lands with the ogive, given a one-diameter seating rule. (If I have the terminology right) They feed fine from the magazine, at 3.055 -3.060 (tip deformation again) (120, 140, 175 NP, and Sierra 160 SPBT also measured and recorded for future consideration. If I recall the 175 NP OAL ogive to lands was the same, or nearly so.

Distance to lands was (and will. be) measured rather primitively - 10-12 trials with bullets of good tip appearance, ejector removed from bolt, middle 5 or 6 measurements averaged out. Close as I'm gonna get.

Reloads with fired brass will be neck sized only to near, but not touching shoulder, using FL dies. Brass will be weight sorted, tho opinions seem to vary on that, Unless Imcan come up with 100 Hornady.

Besides the new and once fired Win brass (45, total), I have a box of once fired Rem, 3 of Federal, and I will of course standardize on one. Hornady brass and ammo for this caliber seems to be unobtanium at this point, which I'd prefer. Only saw some Fed loaded ammo in SW- at nearly $50 a box. Ain't going there, unless just for brass, once I work things out a bit.


Question is, do I pick a powder charge first (which I did- 40 gr 3031) , and experiment with "jump", or pick a "jump" to lands first, and redo the powder amounts?

But I've some bedding work to do first, so no hurry - I can redo either way if necessary.

Also for you experienced ones, is accuracy consistent with the consistent "jump" to lands between bulleti weights or types - they will have different seating depths, according to ogive. Or do each one of these mofos require a different workup? I ain't picky, when (if) I find a load that goes 1.25 MOA, I'll probably stop fooling with it.. Or not

Yeah, I do know- change one damned thing at a time! I'll stick with just the Winchester brass and Sierra 150's for now. And I'll know the primers, which always helps.

Probably the simplest thing to do with this lot of loaded ammo is 5 targets, shooting one bullet from each load, checking for pressure signs, then fire the (safe) rest for group? Then go for the jump thing using the fire-formed brass?

Give me a reality check here, I'm about a 90IQ reloader to date- I've only done the powder charge workup, using whatever was on hand, and always just reloaded to published OAL. Always managed to get a 1.25 MOA load, so this is high school - well, maybe Jr. High...

I’ll start,

Powder first, then jump,

But something tells me the rifle is the issue,
You can not get any of the factory loads to group,
You’ve already dabbled with hand loads,
Still no improvement………..

What’s the size groups you’re getting?

Not sure what you mean by measuring OAL by "tip deformation"? I and most of the guys I know use sharpie marker on the bullet and note when the leade marks onto the black ink when chambered- and adjust accordingly.

However, I usually try a couple different powders starting low on the loading book chart and work up to max. At least one of those loads will almost always start to show promise. Then work it down to .2-.3 grain increments of powder adjustments around the most accurate groups. Once I have a group that starts to look satisfactory I start to adjust the seating depth in small increments until I know it is as good as it gets. Always use the same components ie... Remington brass, or ???? for all of the testing to eliminate one variable. Check your brass by length and weight and trim if necessary. If this doesn't work to your satisfaction, try another powder and start over. I've had a couple rifles that preferred a powder I would have never dreamed would have been right for that cartridge, but worked like magic.

One other thing I have tried with difficult rifles- the business card method. Put a business card under the front of the barrel near the foreend and keep adding them until you get a bit of pressure on the barrel. Once you have a fairly good group, add another card or two to see if the group gets better, worse, or no change.

I’ve always made a dummy round over length to kiss the lands and back it up a notch and go from there

The one caliber seating depth rule isn't really anything to worry about.

The length of the throat may not be all of the issue. How generous is the diameter of the throat?

If you’re doing load development without a chronograph you are wasting your time.

Especially for the 7x57.

Don’t get too hung up on the jump
Most don’t agree that’s fine but I don’t have a single rifle that doesn’t shoot better backed off the lands and I have a bunch
What your dealing with is a hunting rifle sporter weight
It’s a tall order if your expecting benchrest accuracy
I have many rifles shoot 1/2 inch or less
Powder burn rare is very important
I always liked 414 in the 7x57
I have seen the slightest things change group size drastically
I recall struggling wit a sako 30-06 I felt an older sako should shoot better than 2-3 inches
I switched from Winchester brass to hornady and instantly to 3/4 to 1 1/4 working range
My opinion is brass over the last 20 years don’t seem as consistent as it was years ago

The long throat "might" the issue but I would look elsewhere.

I was just updating notes on a trusty 308 I shot last week & noticed my load was .150" off the lands. I might be doubted if I said how well that factory barreled action shoots.

Some rifles shoot great, some not so well. But all the components, fasteners, glass etc, need a look. Distance to the lands is just a small part, or even not, part of the equation.

I too have a couple of good shooting 308s where the bullets are jumping 1/8" or more.

Sounds like you bought this used? When was it cleaned last? I’ve gotten many guns that wouldn’t shoot to do so because the previous owner didn’t apparently think cleaning the gun was important.

What does the muzzle crown look like? A nick there will make it throw shots.

Oh Christ.

LOL

Find out the way we did 60 years ago!

I have loaded for a lot of long throated rifles and I'm not sure seating depth is super critical. In general, if the cartridge fits the magazine and the bullet is seated enough to hold well, that's good enough. If I'm loading for a 7x57, 4350 is my preferred powder and 150 to 160 grain bullets are my preferred weight. If I am loading 175's, I might switch to 4831.
My 7x57 is throated for 168 Sierra MK's, seated to the juncture of the neck and shoulder, because that's how I built it. I seat 160's and 150's slightly shorter and performance is good enough. GD

I also would try 4350.

What he said. Adjust powder until you find the tightest velocity spread across the shot group, typically 3 rounds at each powder level. Need a chronograph like was mentioned already.

Then load 3 shot rounds at that powder level but now vary the cartridge lengths. You should see the group size shrink/expand as you go along.

Most of all, consult with bullet manufacturer. They can give some guidance on where they typically see the best performance based on jump. But that's just a starting point. Not all guns behave the same.

Get a new barrel.

Have you tried anyone else suggestions on a load? Someone with the same gun?

I still don't understand how members who have been here for thousands of posts have trouble navigating the forum.

If only there was a rifle reloading forum on here that'd be super neat.

I wish there was a food and cooking sub forum. Sigh