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Joined: Sep 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
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I've never studied combat wound trauma, but I'd say the medical experts have no clue...I'd bet a thousand guys here on the fire have completely shredded a deer or elk heart...and watched in astonishment as the animal ran away for considerable distances...not stumbling, staggering...in a well coordinated normal looking run. I read where the cop had a .45, supposedly a manstopper.
My SIL used to haul livestock, the law dictated that injured animals be put down ASAP to alleviate suffering, the .22 to the brain was the no drama, no rodeo, method used by everyone in the industry.
Even though head and spine shots under stress are very difficult to make...I wonder if in training there should be more emphasis on brain/spine shots rather than center mass? I wonder what SWAT training identifies as the primary target? Or stick with massive trauma by
just going back in history, the .476 Webley hollow base-hollow point was reported to be the 'right stuff' for thuggee types high on hash...it must have been effective, it was disallowed at the Hague convention of 1899. Putting down injured livestock, and stopping an aggressive attacker, are two very different situations.
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2005
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Look really closely at where the pistol is actually pointing. Looks to me as if most, if not all, of those shots went below the ribcage and sternum. Too low.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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Joined: Dec 2009
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
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Well, he fired until the threat was down. I think he did ok.
Shooting at an advancing moving target, swinging a long stick at him, while the officer was walking backwards and ducking that stick.
I don't think the brain shot would be as easy as one might think, even at close range. Interestingly enough, the perp drops the stick after the first shot. The stick also breaks twice as he is swinging it, suggesting that the stick was quite decayed and soft.
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Joined: Sep 2022
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Regular
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I wonder if it was a .45 GAP?
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2004
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I don't know....it seems like this was discussed like 3 years ago when it was posted the first 6 or 7 times.
Camp is where you make it.
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2004
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He had a model 94 win but didn't consult me. There is a reason.
Camp is where you make it.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 46,745
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 46,745 |
Don't know what happened before the video....shoulda been an easy case for the taser, but did the officer have one? Woulda been fun to watch that dude ride the lightning. Well he did hit the popo in the head with that stick...
Camp is where you make it.
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
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I worked with half a dozen Coroners & Medical examiners over the years all of whom were responsible for conducting autopsies and writing the attendant reports. Credible ones observe and record 'defects' which contributed to the death of the decedent. They may describe it as an apparent penetrating gunshot wound and note any bullets or fragments recovered in the body. They don't speculate the specific caliper, bullet type for what type of weapon it may have been fired from. That stuff gets done at the crime lab, if all the Stars lineup.
Last edited by SargeMO; 11/29/23. Reason: corrected typo
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2011
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It was coroners and medical examiners that got the Winchester Black Talon banned/discontinued because it was supposedly so sharp it posed a risk to medical personnel.
Just because someone works in a human butcher shop doesn't mean they know jack about how bullets work ot their effect on living tissue.
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Joined: Sep 2014
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,820 Likes: 3 |
I've never studied combat wound trauma, but I'd say the medical experts have no clue...I'd bet a thousand guys here on the fire have completely shredded a deer or elk heart...and watched in astonishment as the animal ran away for considerable distances...not stumbling, staggering...in a well coordinated normal looking run. I read where the cop had a .45, supposedly a manstopper.
My SIL used to haul livestock, the law dictated that injured animals be put down ASAP to alleviate suffering, the .22 to the brain was the no drama, no rodeo, method used by everyone in the industry.
Even though head and spine shots under stress are very difficult to make...I wonder if in training there should be more emphasis on brain/spine shots rather than center mass? I wonder what SWAT training identifies as the primary target? Or stick with massive trauma by
just going back in history, the .476 Webley hollow base-hollow point was reported to be the 'right stuff' for thuggee types high on hash...it must have been effective, it was disallowed at the Hague convention of 1899. Putting down injured livestock, and stopping an aggressive attacker, are two very different situations. Yep. And anyone who has put down enough stock will have found a time the 22 didn't work. Dad had killed scores, hogs and beef, then one Saturday a steer was less than impressed. Smashed a gate, througha fence, and was out in the big pasture. 2 slugs in his head! Dad took a tractor and went hunting, 3 rounds later he was slitting the throat. A 5 round group was about an inch, we cracked the skull and only 1 went through the bone. Another time I watched a cow take all six from a 22 revolver. Every round dropped her to her knees, everything she got up. Standing there blowing blood out her nose. One round from a 38, ended that chit show. A friend ran a butcher shop, a 22 was the primary tool. A single shot 12 gage sat in the corner with 1 1/4 of #4s. On the rare occasion of a thick skull, the 12 gadget was shoved behind the shoulder and fired. That, always stopped the rodeo immediately.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 8,200
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 8,200 |
Yep, anyone who hunts has seen unaware deer hit through the heart and or lungs, dead on their feet, those organs destroyed, yet until their brain runs out of oxygen, they may run quite a distance. They may need to be shot again. Sometimes more than once.
Until the brain runs out of oxygen, any animal can continue to function with critical, lethal injuries.
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
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12 pellets of 00 would have thrown his ass backwards on the pavement. A 44 mag would have done similar.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,655 Likes: 14
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,655 Likes: 14 |
12 pellets of 00 would have thrown his ass backwards on the pavement. A 44 mag would have done similar. Well, ummm... No. It wouldn't have "thrown" a grown man anywhere. Neither one. You've watched too many Dirty Harry movies. 
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: Mar 2022
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2022
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12 pellets of 00 would have thrown his ass backwards on the pavement. A 44 mag would have done similar. Throw down? Nope. However 00 and .44 do have a LOT more git-r-done than the 9mm. A 180 gr hallow point in true .44 Magnum guise is devastating. 12 pieces of 00 buck is even better. But, reasons, it was 9mm.
Save our kids - shoot your local drug dealer.
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Joined: May 2011
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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My memory is sometimes faulty, but I seem to recall reading that in Maryland not even cops can have hollow point handgun ammo.
Dale
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,718 Likes: 18 |
My memory is sometimes faulty, but I seem to recall reading that in Maryland not even cops can have hollow point handgun ammo. I know hollow points are illegal in New Jersey, but not sure it that includes cops.
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,909 Likes: 2 |
12 pellets of 00 would have thrown his ass backwards on the pavement. A 44 mag would have done similar. Newton’s Third Law -every action has an equal and opposite reaction. The total force exerted on the perp can’t be any greater than the force of recoil felt by the shooter. And for the perp that small amount of force is gonna be divided twelve ways. What the perp will get is twelve .33 caliber holes punched in their internal organs all at once.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Sep 2015
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 10,227 Likes: 4 |
12 pellets of 00 would have thrown his ass backwards on the pavement. A 44 mag would have done similar. Newton’s Third Law -every action has an equal and opposite reaction. The total force exerted on the perp can’t be any greater than the force of recoil felt by the shooter. And for the perp that small amount of force is gonna be divided twelve ways. What the perp will get is twelve .33 caliber holes punched in their internal organs all at once. not true recoil energy is not equal to muzzle entergy discussion here https://www.quora.com/What-has-more-power-the-bullet-or-the-recoil or search "recoil energy vs bullet energy"
Last edited by persiandog; 11/29/23.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Even Double OO Buck is not the death ray you would think it is. One on my coworkers shoot a Pitbull on a drug search warrant with swat team making the entry. The first shot was in the chest all pellets in a pattern the size of shot glass, no reaction other then to keep coming. The second shot was closer and right on the point of the dogs nose, that second shot calmed the dog down considerably! The dog had bitten two swat guys prior to the shooting!
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