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A complete system

I started shooting LR while in the Army. I’m retired EOD. There are certain types of ordnance, many think need only be concerned with if they are close, when if fact they can/will kill you even from afar. To make them safe/disarming them by shooting them from afar is preferable. About 15 years back I turned my love of LR shooting into competing in LR games; specifically PRS, NRL, NRL Hunter, NRL22, NRL22X and always…..hunting. The games make me a better LR hunter. Faster, more precise, more practical, more proficient. Always looking for better technology. I started with the old Rangematic 1000. Moved to the old Bushnell Rangefinder; did pretty well if it bounced off a large, green highway sign at 600 yds. Things got much better with Leica. First, the 1600. Then the 1600B. Thought I was in heaven with the Leica Geovid HD-B’s. Ran them for 6-7 years taking my farthest long range elk at 950 with them; along with 2 more elk past 800. The 3200.com’s, with their 18” Bluetooth range and die of old age waiting for the Bluetooth to connect, were quickly and happily sold when the Geovid Pro’s came along. When married to the Kestrel 5700 elite handheld weather meter with Applied Ballistics, I am 98% closer to heaven.

To me “A Complete System” is a well tuned LR rifle in a cartridge/bullet combination that will harvest deer or elk at a range within the capabilities of the Complete System. Last year with the new 10x32 compact Pro’s I could quickly and effectively engage steel or flesh faster then ever before.

In days long gone my beloved Shooter app on my cell phone with a Droid OS was my GO TO! Using a Kestrel 2500 or 3500 I could retrieve all the necessary external data; wind direction and speed, temperature and barometric pressure. The 3500 provided humidity. Input it all into Shooter and come up with a firing solution. The up/down angle, if needed, was obtained from the cell phone. Depending upon the game, their was usually plenty of time to gather all necessary data and prep for a course of fire. In a hunting scenario it might be a 3 ring circus trying to obtain one’s firing solution. Along comes Bluetooth!

In the game of NRL Hunter matches a competitor must carry all gear, sans the rifle and bino’s, on their back; ie., hunting backpack. When the clock starts the only thing the shooter knows is how many targets, what they are and how many positions must be used. Four minutes! When the clock starts you have 4 minutes to approach the COF, find the target/s, range, dope and shoot them. Speed….smooth speed is absolutely necessary. Many shooters choose to go into a COF with pre-determined dope on an arm board. Works quite well. Throw in some crazy, angled, fast wind and misses occur more often with scores dropping. Now, with a Kestrel 5700, I take a wind reading; speed and direction. Drop the Kestrel back into it’s little pouch sitting aside my Marsupial (or any other brand) bino case. The four minute clock starts. Run up to the glassing peg stuck in the ground and deploy my tripod directly over the peg. There are a left and right limiters in front of you. When glassing from directly over the glassing peg, glassing between the left and right limiters (painted marks on the ground or little flags, etc) one will find 1, 2 or 4 steel targets.; typically 150 to 950 yds. With LRF steadied atop the tripod targets are more easily found and accurately ranged. The instant the Geovid Pro’s are turned on they Bluetooth with the Kestrel. Range a target and get dope and wind hold; faster then it took me to type this. I type very fast. The internal compass’ in the Pro’s and Kestrel give a precise wind hold. The Kestrel will even compute Spin Drift. I’ve made several 1100+ first round hits with my 300 PRC this year with a light right to left wind but the wind hold output was to hold left due to spin drift.

Last year I had a small buck in the waning light of the last day of the season with no way to get closer, fast enough. I quickly ranged and shot him at 588. Two weeks later, a cow elk about to get back onto private land…..she didn’t make it! 630 yds.

Almost two weeks back on the last day of my Limited Entry Late Manti bull hunt here in Utah I found my bull, bedded on a plateau full of old growth JP forest. He was seen through a small window in the trees. I’m pretty sure he might have been watching me. Just like in an NRL Hunter match. I deployed my tripod using it to steady my Pro’s for an accurate reading. ½ dozen ranges, all coming up +/- 5 yds. Dialed the 4.7 mil for the 790 yd distance the 208 gr LRX bullet, departing my 25” carbon wrapped Preferred barrel, would need to travel. Left to right wind of only about 1-2 mph but with spin drift thrown in….a slight left hold was needed. I got prone, found the bull at 6x in the NF 4-16 ATACR and cranked up the power. Didn’t realize I was at 13x for the shots until later. Checked my level bubble, as I’d done thousands of times in competition. I run a 2-stage trigger because I like my trigger pull LIGHT! The first stage is for my brain to scream at me, “hey dummy. You’re pulling trigger!”. Once I hit the wall, I do a final check/fine tune of the reticle and complete the 2nd state break. First round with a MV of 2893 fps hits him quartering to me in the onside shoulder. He stood up, now broadside, so I send the 2nd round into his lungs, behind the shoulder. He stood there. My policy with elk is to keep sending bullets as long as they are up. I knew I had 2 good hits on him but I didn’t want him disappearing into that JP forest so I sent the last round higher, to shock the spine. He dropped and was done. All bullets exited.


Alan

https://photos.app.goo.gl/zopxo5BZT3gQAtbt9

Last edited by GSSP; 12/03/23.
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Remove the http:// that's before the https:// in your google link. Also don't need the image tags around the google link.

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Originally Posted by GSSP
A complete system

I started shooting LR while in the Army. I’m retired EOD. There are certain types of ordnance, many think need only be concerned with if they are close, when if fact they can/will kill you even from afar. To make them safe/disarming them by shooting them from afar is preferable. About 15 years back I turned my love of LR shooting into competing in LR games; specifically PRS, NRL, NRL Hunter, NRL22, NRL22X and always…..hunting. The games make me a better LR hunter. Faster, more precise, more practical, more proficient. Always looking for better technology. I started with the old Rangematic 1000. Moved to the old Bushnell Rangefinder; did pretty well if it bounced off a large, green highway sign at 600 yds. Things got much better with Leica. First, the 1600. Then the 1600B. Thought I was in heaven with the Leica Geovid HD-B’s. Ran them for 6-7 years taking my farthest long range elk at 950 with them; along with 2 more elk past 800. The 3200.com’s, with their 18” Bluetooth range and die of old age waiting for the Bluetooth to connect, were quickly and happily sold when the Geovid Pro’s came along. When married to the Kestrel 5700 elite handheld weather meter with Applied Ballistics, I am 98% closer to heaven.

To me “A Complete System” is a well tuned LR rifle in a cartridge/bullet combination that will harvest deer or elk at a range within the capabilities of the Complete System. Last year with the new 10x32 compact Pro’s I could quickly and effectively engage steel or flesh faster then ever before.

In days long gone my beloved Shooter app on my cell phone with a Droid OS was my GO TO! Using a Kestrel 2500 or 3500 I could retrieve all the necessary external data; wind direction and speed, temperature and barometric pressure. The 3500 provided humidity. Input it all into Shooter and come up with a firing solution. The up/down angle, if needed, was obtained from the cell phone. Depending upon the game, their was usually plenty of time to gather all necessary data and prep for a course of fire. In a hunting scenario it might be a 3 ring circus trying to obtain one’s firing solution. Along comes Bluetooth!

In the game of NRL Hunter matches a competitor must carry all gear, sans the rifle and bino’s, on their back; ie., hunting backpack. When the clock starts the only thing the shooter knows is how many targets, what they are and how many positions must be used. Four minutes! When the clock starts you have 4 minutes to approach the COF, find the target/s, range, dope and shoot them. Speed….smooth speed is absolutely necessary. Many shooters choose to go into a COF with pre-determined dope on an arm board. Works quite well. Throw in some crazy, angled, fast wind and misses occur more often with scores dropping. Now, with a Kestrel 5700, I take a wind reading; speed and direction. Drop the Kestrel back into it’s little pouch sitting aside my Marsupial (or any other brand) bino case. The four minute clock starts. Run up to the glassing peg stuck in the ground and deploy my tripod directly over the peg. There are a left and right limiters in front of you. When glassing from directly over the glassing peg, glassing between the left and right limiters (painted marks on the ground or little flags, etc) one will find 1, 2 or 4 steel targets.; typically 150 to 950 yds. With LRF steadied atop the tripod targets are more easily found and accurately ranged. The instant the Geovid Pro’s are turned on they Bluetooth with the Kestrel. Range a target and get dope and wind hold; faster then it took me to type this. I type very fast. The internal compass’ in the Pro’s and Kestrel give a precise wind hold. The Kestrel will even compute Spin Drift. I’ve made several 1100+ first round hits with my 300 PRC this year with a light right to left wind but the wind hold output was to hold left due to spin drift.

Last year I had a small buck in the waning light of the last day of the season with no way to get closer, fast enough. I quickly ranged and shot him at 588. Two weeks later, a cow elk about to get back onto private land…..she didn’t make it! 630 yds.

Almost two weeks back on the last day of my Limited Entry Late Manti bull hunt here in Utah I found my bull, bedded on a plateau full of old growth JP forest. He was seen through a small window in the trees. I’m pretty sure he might have been watching me. Just like in an NRL Hunter match. I deployed my tripod using it to steady my Pro’s for an accurate reading. ½ dozen ranges, all coming up +/- 5 yds. Dialed the 4.7 mil for the 790 yd distance the 208 gr LRX bullet, departing my 25” carbon wrapped Preferred barrel, would need to travel. Left to right wind of only about 1-2 mph but with spin drift thrown in….a slight left hold was needed. I got prone, found the bull at 6x in the NF 4-16 ATACR and cranked up the power. Didn’t realize I was at 13x for the shots until later. Checked my level bubble, as I’d done thousands of times in competition. I run a 2-stage trigger because I like my trigger pull LIGHT! The first stage is for my brain to scream at me, “hey dummy. You’re pulling trigger!”. Once I hit the wall, I do a final check/fine tune of the reticle and complete the 2nd state break. First round with a MV of 2893 fps hits him quartering to me in the onside shoulder. He stood up, now broadside, so I send the 2nd round into his lungs, behind the shoulder. He stood there. My policy with elk is to keep sending bullets as long as they are up. I knew I had 2 good hits on him but I didn’t want him disappearing into that JP forest so I sent the last round higher, to shock the spine. He dropped and was done. All bullets exited.

40 yr bull

Not sure what's up with posting photos. I have a photobucket account. It won't let me drop a picture into a gallery. I tried using my Google Photos.

Alan

photos.app.goo.gl/62gTRZqbWVbwrVpV6

That's awesome Alan. Those kinds of shoots keep you on your toes. Then when it comes time to shoot your deer or elk, or whatever, it is a cake walk. I like your complete system. It works well.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Great post, Alan. And nice bull!

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Congratulations!


Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Great post. And a great antidote to those whose knee-jerk reaction is to say long range hunting is "not ethical."



A wise man is frequently humbled.

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Originally Posted by smokepole
Great post. And a great antidote to those whose knee-jerk reaction is to say long range hunting is "not ethical."


Exactly

As with any activity, proficiency is a function of practice and repetition. Alan shoots the same type of matches I do and have visited with him at an event. After putting your system together, there’s no substitute for shooting matches to improve, on the clock under pressure

Beware the guy who claims he and his rig are “good to 1200 yards” because he’s tested it. Without doing it repeatedly under the pressure of a match situation, you really can’t replicate what happens during a pressure hunting scenario

The stories I just got through hearing from a friend who is a landowner/guide/outfitter about multiple clients who fit that description were mind boggling


Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Originally Posted by rcamuglia
Originally Posted by smokepole
Great post. And a great antidote to those whose knee-jerk reaction is to say long range hunting is "not ethical."


Exactly

As with any activity, proficiency is a function of practice and repetition. Alan shoots the same type of matches I do and have visited with him at an event. After putting your system together, there’s no substitute for shooting matches to improve, on the clock under pressure

Beware the guy who claims he and his rig are “good to 1200 yards” because he’s tested it. Without doing it repeatedly under the pressure of a match situation, you really can’t replicate what happens during a pressure hunting scenario

The stories I just got through hearing from a friend who is a landowner/guide/outfitter about multiple clients who fit that description were mind boggling

What's even worse are the guys that go and buy a rifle from places like best of the west and now think they are a "long range" shooter. Even though they don't know exactly how their "system" works. They may not even shoot that set up, but once to get it fairly dialed in, and the next to snipe at a buck.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by rcamuglia
Originally Posted by smokepole
Great post. And a great antidote to those whose knee-jerk reaction is to say long range hunting is "not ethical."


Exactly

As with any activity, proficiency is a function of practice and repetition. Alan shoots the same type of matches I do and have visited with him at an event. After putting your system together, there’s no substitute for shooting matches to improve, on the clock under pressure

Beware the guy who claims he and his rig are “good to 1200 yards” because he’s tested it. Without doing it repeatedly under the pressure of a match situation, you really can’t replicate what happens during a pressure hunting scenario

The stories I just got through hearing from a friend who is a landowner/guide/outfitter about multiple clients who fit that description were mind boggling
Very true.

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Originally Posted by smokepole
Great post. And a great antidote to those whose knee-jerk reaction is to say long range hunting is "not ethical."

It is only unethical if you don't know how to shoot, or if you are overreaching with the wrong setup. People who can't shoot always say, "How Could You" and try to make you a pariah.

Awesome shooting Alan Congratulations on that beauty Herdbull!

Last edited by KillerBee; 12/03/23.

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I don't compete that much, but I do try to shoot quite a bit on demand at further distances, just to see how good/bad I am that day.
I do a lot of wind calling and correction for multiple shooters on steel and for LR prairie dog shooting every June.
The more I spot for others, telling them what wind to hold or dial, and more I am shooting myself at distance, I can tell my shooting and wind calling skills get sharper.
My shots on big game went from 26 yards to 754 yards: Both were specialty pistols in the 14-15" barrel length, and both were one and done.
The hardest shot was a coyote at 353 yards with a center-grip XP. The yote was about to bolt and knew the game was up. He died a quick death.
Nothing replaces spotting, wind calling and shooting.
IF, someone says, you have to be in competitive shooting, like the types mentioned above to be proficient at LR hunting, I am not buying it.
Will shooting under pressure and time help you? I think that goes without saying.


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Take a look at this video. Here are some guys that have some damn nice "systems", but they are flawed. One guy even at the end of the video, tries to blame his misses on his Kestrel. Watch and see for yourselves. Can't make that schidt up:




Now, I agree with XP hunter to a certain extent. Some guys just don't compete, that does not mean they are not great shooters. If they have the facility and they practice a lot, they can be exceptional. Not saying this because I do not compete in longrange comps, because I do, and they are all timed events. I also shoot a lot with friends at the local 1,000 yard range. Practice is where you get proficiency.

At one of my shoots, I won a 50% off Kestrel coupon. 50% off of any Kestrel product, and I chose to buy a KST 1000 shot timer. If I'm only shooting out to 1,000 yards, a lot of that other stuff is unnecessary. Learning to read the wind and make those shots on target is where it's at.

Also, in the video I posted a link to, none of these guys know how to dial to correct for impact. Having a rifle system and knowing how to use it, are 2 totally different things. Alan knows how to use his. I'm thinking most here are probably better than the shooters shown in the video as well. Check it out. See what you think.

Also, what a chit show on some of those rifles not feeding, ejecting, or operating very well. For the money spent on their systems, that is unacceptable IMHO..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Having hunted the manti for muzzleloader bull a few years back. After looking for my buddy for 8 days on that unit. That’s a good bull and definatly one anyone should pull the trigger on when hunting the manti. The best bull I saw the whole time was about 320. Buddy ended up with a willowee 6 point. Major disappointment for him.

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Originally Posted by xphunter
IF, someone says, you have to be in competitive shooting, like the types mentioned above to be proficient at LR hunting, I am not buying it.


My best friend is a really good golfer. When playing with friends or his dad and his friends, he shoots some fantastic scores. 67’s and plenty of sub 70 rounds. He had a round recently where he made 2 eagles.


When he enters a tournament, his rounds are in the 76 range and can’t make the cut sometimes.


😉


Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Some people fold under the burden of competition, and others do not.
When I take an animal past 500 yards, I do not shoot as fast as I would in a PRS type match.
If the opportunity is lost, so be it.
I am content with that.


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Congrats on the bull! He’s a dandy!

Awesome shooting as well!


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Originally Posted by GSSP
Last year I had a small buck in the waning light of the last day of the season with no way to get closer, fast enough. I quickly ranged and shot him at 588. Two weeks later, a cow elk about to get back onto private land…..she didn’t make it! 630 yds.

Almost two weeks back on the last day of my Limited Entry Late Manti bull hunt here in Utah I found my bull, bedded on a plateau full of old growth JP forest. He was seen through a small window in the trees. I’m pretty sure he might have been watching me. Just like in an NRL Hunter match. I deployed my tripod using it to steady my Pro’s for an accurate reading. ½ dozen ranges, all coming up +/- 5 yds. Dialed the 4.7 mil for the 790 yd distance the 208 gr LRX bullet, departing my 25” carbon wrapped Preferred barrel, would need to travel. Left to right wind of only about 1-2 mph but with spin drift thrown in….a slight left hold was needed. I got prone, found the bull at 6x in the NF 4-16 ATACR and cranked up the power. Didn’t realize I was at 13x for the shots until later. Checked my level bubble, as I’d done thousands of times in competition. I run a 2-stage trigger because I like my trigger pull LIGHT! The first stage is for my brain to scream at me, “hey dummy. You’re pulling trigger!”. Once I hit the wall, I do a final check/fine tune of the reticle and complete the 2nd state break. First round with a MV of 2893 fps hits him quartering to me in the onside shoulder. He stood up, now broadside, so I send the 2nd round into his lungs, behind the shoulder. He stood there. My policy with elk is to keep sending bullets as long as they are up. I knew I had 2 good hits on him but I didn’t want him disappearing into that JP forest so I sent the last round higher, to shock the spine. He dropped and was done. All bullets exited.
Alan

Congrats!
Beautiful Bull!
Excellent Shooting!


Ernie "The Un-Tactical"

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