Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting What will reloading do for ya

I have a couple of guns that are projects. Both are shooting 3-4 moa groups with factory hunting ammo. Both should be very accurate guns.

I’m systematically going through and looking for problems. One such problem might be the ammo.

One question: what sort of test might I do to see if the ammo is part of the problem? (I’ve heard do measuring chamber depth to see if you’re seated too far back, but is that doable without specialized tools?)

Second: Has anyone gone from 3-4 moa to sub moa by switching to hand-loads? Or is it usually a matter of going from something like 1moa to 1/2 moa?

To predict some comments, yes I’ve checked the scope, rings,mounts, crown and attachment to the stock. Having a gunsmith scope the barrel is next.

I had a .223 that shot 2-3 moa scoped the barrel and the last 1/2-3/4” of the muzzle showed horrible gouges and tool marks in the rifling. Cut 1” off and recrowned. Shot 10 shots at 3/4 moa afterwards. Same ammo. Reloading can’t hurt but sometimes the problem isn’t obvious

How many different brands of ammo have you tried. I have had guns that shot 4" groups become 1 1/2" guns by finding the factory ammo the rifle liked. My MRC 260 Rem is just such a rifle.

One rifle shoots match ammo 3/4 moa. Shoots all available brands of hunting ammo 2-3 moa. Hence the idea that reloading might be a solution. I’m theorizing that the slightly longer match bullets may be reaching closer to the start of rifling. Berger tells me my twist should make all the stuff I’ve tried stable.

The other rifle is a 28nosler. I’ve only tried 2types of factory ammo. Both shoot poorly. I’d prefer to not buy any more ammo until I’ve figured out what’s going on.

What distances have you tested these rifles?

Chamberings?
Twists?
Bullets?

100 yards and 300 yards.

300prc - have shot (factory ammo) eld-x, eld-m and outfitter. Eld-m shoots 3/4 moa. The other two 2-3 moa. 1:8 twist.

28nosler - (factory) eld-x and 175gr ABLR. Eld-x does 2moa, ABLR does 4. 1:8.5 twist.

Sorry, I missed your response to VaHunter.

Twists should be fine though, and even that factory hunting ammo should do a little better than that.

Reloading is a really expensive experiment these days with even the basics to get into it, unless you have access to someone else's bench, tools, and dies.

I've cut 1.5 MOA in half with reloads in a factory barrel. With my premium barrels I've only ever handloaded, and 1/2 moa is my benchmark with those.

Distance to the lands is over rated criteria in my opinion. I've had loads that jumped a canyon to get there shooting sub moa. One in particular was the 90 gr Sierra HP jumped a whopping. 250" to the lands in a factory Rem 270Win BDL barrel. Yeah, I couldn't believe it either. Shot tiny little touching 5 shot clusters at 100 yards if I let it cool all the way down between shots.

First question is how light is the rifle, and have you had someone else shoot it as well? I had to go to the range last month to diagnose a rifle that was shooting poorly. I saw after one group from the factory ammo that it was the ammo. The owner of the rifle and my buddy were both trying to shoot it, and they could not get it zeroed. Part of that was a scope issue, but most of it was the ammo they were using. It was 3-4 moa with them behind the butt. I fired off one group with the factory ammo and it shot roughly 1 1/2 to 1 3/4" for 3 shots. I asked the owner if could try some of my handloads and he said sure, he had nothing to lose at that point. My handloads were grouping into less than an inch. Probably closer to 3/4". I asked him if he had tried the ammo that they were going to be hunting with. He said no, and I asked if I could try that ammo. It also shot into 3/4". Problem solved, it was the crappy white box Winchester ammo they were using to try to get the rifle dialed in. Plus the rifle was very light (sub 5 pounds), and I don't think they had much experience with a lightweight rifle. If you say everything checks out, then it is pointing to the bore being crap, shooter error, or bad ammo.

I have one factory rifle, A Winchester Heavy Varmint chambered in 220 Swift
With ANY factory ammo I have tried it shoots 3 MOA at best. with lots of tinkering with handloads it is easily a 1/2 MOA rifle. only downside is OAL of my handloads make it a single shot but that is fine with me

Check everything. Scope, bedding, rings, adjust trigger, shooter, then worry about loads.

Which Reupolds are you using and in what mounts? Hint………….

Have you had someone else shoot them?

-Jake

Christianson Arms rifles?

Make sure you're not catching the sling-studs on the front or rear bags during recoil.

Any chance you're bouncing the bbl off the stock near the end of the stock during recoil?

Curious about that as well...they've developed a reputation for turning out rifles that needed to be sent back to the factory for poor accuracy.

i had a younger friend with the same problems ,so i taught him how to shoot a rifle correctly ,loaded ammo for him and now he shoots real well and is happy what he learned . somehow young people need us older people to teach many shooter`s some skills . my son and daughter were raised to shoot, fish and hunt ,now my grandson is learning so far at 11 years old 2 deer he has shot one shot each with a Ruger #1 ,simple is better for the younger generation and still my favorite way. > as far as reloading goes that takes a year or two to become a decent ammo reloader that i had help with 40 some years ago , but bench rest competition , many reloading books did make me a much better reloader of ammo , so yes hand loaded ammo is much better hunting ammo if you have those skills. good luck , Pete53

To answer some of the questions above. One rifle is a browning x-bolt. The other is a fierce fury.

Glass is a Burris xtr3 3.3x18x50, Seekins rings, tikka rail. Yes, I’ve tried multiple positions and had others shoot with the same results. Yes, I’ve placed the scope/rings on another rifle and shot sub-moa with it. Yes, I’ve checked bedding and crown.

Back to the original question. Has anybody had a 75 percent plus accuracy gain from reloading, either by finding a bullet the barrel likes, or reducing the jump to the lands? Sounds like the answer is not so much..

Over random factory ammo?

Yes

If you’re not going to handload, you have to do what was already suggested. Buy a variety of factory ammo that fits your requirements and see which one shoots the best. When and if you find one that shoots well, buy as much of that lot number as you can get your hands on.

If nothing shoots well, whether factory or handloads, the barrel just might not be capable of anything better.

You’ll save money in the long run by having it rebarreled

In my experience a rifle that will shoot handloads into sub MOA will also shoot quality factory ammo with respectable accuracy. Also in my experience, a rifle that won't shoot factory ammo decently won't respond very well to handloading. There is always the outlier that is the exception to the norm, and maybe you have two of them. I don't have the magic answer myself, maybe someone else does. If they were my rifles I would have started out with dies, components, and load testing, and not fooled with factory ammo. If i couldn't get them to shoot I'd ditch them and move on. So, there's that.

Send them back to the factories and let the manufacturers fix the problem(s).

Oft times people buy s hit that even God Himself would frown upon as far as being able to produce accuracy! My brother bought a friggin Beretta (rifle supposedly) a while back in 9mm and it's the biggest piece of s hit that I've ever seen; and I've seen a lot over 83 years believe me! Trigger weight was nothing less than 28#! As for reloads improving accuracy it depends what the reloads are going to be chambered it! If it's a piece of s hit to begin with then it's gonna have to have a special blessing from God to see any improvement! You're gonna have to have an adequate rifle to begin with to see any improvement in accuracy shooting handholds and there's a helluva lot more to producing accurate ammo with reloads than just a casual thought!

I skimmed through the thread, but I think he said it shot "match grade" ammo well. Don't quote me, it was lastnight when I skimmed through it. I also don't think he's listening to the posters saying that they can markedly improve accuracy with handloads. He needs to go back through and read some of the comments. Best of luck to him, as it sounds like he already has his mind made up about handlaods and how much they can improve a rifle's accuracy. He also said everything has been checked like bedding, glass, rings and mounts. So if that is the case, like I said in my first post, it looks like its narrowed down to ammo or shooter error.

UNtil you get something to compare your fired cases with your new ammo, yuo won't know. The same with looking into the barrel to see if you have a barrel problem.

kwg

That’s some good info. Did you ever figure out why such a discernible difference? Bullet type, powder type, seating?

Yes, I bought beautifully stocked T77V 25-06. back in the 70's. Factory ammo went about 5"..I bought a $19 Lee loader and worked up loads that went MOA, no other adjustments or work (my gun knowledge at the time being pointy end goes away). I think now that the chamber may have been overly deep.

The stock was fiddleback end to end. Never should have sold that thing!!!!

Ammo can make a huge difference in accuracy. I have seen big differences in factory ammo.
I load my own for my rifles and the loads I have settled on shoot better than the factory ammo I have tried. Plus I can duplicate it. Factory ammo sometimes changes their components. Find something that shoots well then they discontinue your load you like.

Handloading provides 3 primary benefits.

1. It allows you to find the most accurate or best performing bullet for your hunting needs by tailoring the load to your specific rifle.

2. It saves money if you shoot enough, on a cost per round basis as cases are reusable and components such as primers and powders can be shared across a range of other cartridges.

3. Finally it provides and extention to your existing firearms hobby by generating hours and years of cumulative knowlege and the satisfaction experienced for taking game or shooting your best groups with loads you have created yourself.

There are occasions where a factory load is hard to beat in a particular rifle but you will find it much harder to drop that fired case on the ground and walk away.

You left out the fact that handloads are a lot more reliable as well, since you know exactly what is put into them.

Generally offers a bit more accuracy when tuned for a specific firearm. While not as great as it once was…..a savings in cost vs. buying factory loaded ammunition. The pride and satisfaction of having loaded your own for cost savings and better performance.

Perhaps most important: if you act wisely, stockpiling additional components for that day when your needed ammunition sources dry-up! memtb

Exactly. I'll bet a lot of us that shoot a lot wished they would have bought more primers. I went through 6,000 BR2's last year. As for components, there are still some damn good deals out there, but you have to watch for them. I get great deals all the time. And even pass that on to some guys here. Funny thing, some guys ask me to keep an eye on some stuff, and I do. A couple months back, I ran in to some old discontinued Barnes originals for the 30 caliber. I already have a box stashed away, just for the cool factor, but these were only $15/box:


The .338's were the same price. But the 250gr .30 cal's are pretty cool to find. You rarely see them anymore.

The word on the street is ammo supplies are going to start drying up again, so you better stockpile now, while you can. I was talking to a couple different shops, and I guess they are going to start raising prices on primers again. Thanks current administration!!!!!! FJB!!!!!

I didn`t read where the OP mentioned chamberings for the rifles in question....might be a clue.

Shot a new 6.8 Western in a Browning for a friend a few weeks ago that proved to shoot the same with factory stuff, Winchester I believe, as the OP. Compairing bullet seat depth within a box, found them to be all over. I`d also read some not-so-good reviews by other shooters on the same ammo.

Maybe the OP should look for reviews on the stuff he`s using, before jumping through hoops.

Last year, I ran into a couple guys shooting the 6.8 western. They were friends. Both shooting factory ammo. Winchester factory ammo. One of them had a Browning, the other a cheaper Winchester XPR. They both shot like schidt. In the 2-3" for 3 shot range. Then they start talking to me, expounding on the virtues of the new 6.8 western cartridge, and it's fast twist barrel.. I tried not to laugh..

Handloading can do a great deal….and sometimes nothing at all. I have a couple Mark Vs that regularly cloverleaf with factory amm they like. I tried to duplicate those loads with the same bullets. In both rifles, I could match accuracy or velocity, but never at the same time. This was even loading the same bullets to the same COAL.

On the other hand, the majority of rifles I’ve owned shot notably better…and faster with my handloads, and used the bullets I chose for a particular purpose.

Case in point: I’m a Tikka slut and have found them remarkably easy to shoot well, whether factory or handloads. Along came a T3x in 7mm-08. With factory ammo and numerous loads at various COAL, it was a 3 moa gun. I changed scopes, retourqued the actions/bases/rings, all to no avail. Turns out this particular gun does not shoot well with a number of bullets and loads with a COAL <2.8” which was all the factory mag would accept. When I tried loads.020 off the lands, every load shot <.75”, and with Pharmseller’s load of 47.5g of big game, it has shot multiple one hole groups. Fortunately, Mountain Tactical mags work perfectly accommodating a 2.922” COAL.

My point is a gun that I’d have sent down the road turned out to be a real shooter. While the accuracy/quality of factory ammo has markedly improved over the decades, handoading is the best bet to find a load that matches a particular rifle.

I only read the first post. But if you have a rifle that shoots 4 MOA with factory ammo, get rid of it. Reloading won't fix a crippled dog.

Handloading gives you more trigger time.

While I’ve had some factory ammo do pretty well, occasionally very well like some Norma 6CM Match, in general I’ve always gotten better results with my own, even using new brass right out of the bag. Aside from .223 and 9mm, I shoot my stuff +95% of the time, and only buy factory when it’s deeply discounted or as a reference point for my stuff. I’ve been pretty disappointed by some of it, and I’ve learned to not get wound up by poor results with a new rifle until I’ve rolled some of my own for it. Dies and the other odd bits needed to load are purchased at the same time as a new rifle if I don’t already have them for the cartridge it uses.

If you’re serious about your shooting, you should invest in the stuff needed to handload, and that includes the measuring tools required for making safe and precise ammo. Better to spend for that than blowing a bunch for more rifles and searching for ammo that shoots well in them. Even if you get lucky with ammo selection, chances are the factory recipe will change, or it will be discontinued etc. Take control of your results.

OP what do you need a flashing neon light? Use the ELD M in the 300prc most guys on this forum say that the ELD M bullets work better on game than the ELD X's do. I did not have good results with the expensive nosler ammo in my 7 SAUM at $66/ box I don't need to try anymore either. Mb

I wouldn't waste any more ammo, reloaded or factory, until you have properly bedded your rail.

It would be surprising if that alone didn't fix all or most of your problem.

Correct torque is meaningless without proper bedding.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

THIS!!! Rio7