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Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by flintlocke
Remington has been dead to me after they ran out of 1917 actions to make the Model 30 Express. In 1962 they became a manufacturer that just happened to build guns, since blenders, toasters and cake mixers was already covered. By the 1980's they had created another industry...aftermarket parts to make their rifles actually work...5 million 700's later, they are still struggling. The Remington 770 story is amusing...unless you bought one, the RP9 pistol was less amusing...but in reality few people were actually injured, mostly they just wouldn't function...but the best was the battery operated EtronX rifle/ammo debacle...now that's comedy gold.


They also made the best looking and best feeling bolt gun I ever saw too
No offense intended Moose...I like the Lee Enfields, LOL...nobody but me and a few old Canuckians can stand them.


Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
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Originally Posted by flintlocke
Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by flintlocke
Remington has been dead to me after they ran out of 1917 actions to make the Model 30 Express. In 1962 they became a manufacturer that just happened to build guns, since blenders, toasters and cake mixers was already covered. By the 1980's they had created another industry...aftermarket parts to make their rifles actually work...5 million 700's later, they are still struggling. The Remington 770 story is amusing...unless you bought one, the RP9 pistol was less amusing...but in reality few people were actually injured, mostly they just wouldn't function...but the best was the battery operated EtronX rifle/ammo debacle...now that's comedy gold.


They also made the best looking and best feeling bolt gun I ever saw too
No offense intended Moose...I like the Lee Enfields, LOL...nobody but me and a few old Canuckians can stand them.


No offense taken. But nothing has ever grabbed my eye and felt as perfect in my hands as a 700 BDL

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Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by the_gman
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by the_gman
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by the_gman
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by the_gman
I've been here long enough to recognize aholes when I see them. You're a prime example.
I can honestly say the same about you G-man.

Difference is, I KNOW I'm an ahole. Yep, I'm the guy that takes a dump in the punch bowl but only when I see other aholes posting the dumbest crap ever.
You're such a god damn big important, well connected know it all in the industry, why don't you call up your good buddies in charge over at Glock and Sig and Ruger and ask them what they were paying for entry level production positions at the time. The thing is you won't, because you can't, because you're not all that and if you did you'd find out the figures I gave were absolutely correct. I have no reason to lie to a bunch of arrogant, ignorant, stinking pus bags on the internet.

I'm not the windbag, you are. Never claimed to be big and important but you sure puffed your chest out. Simply said I've also worked in the industry and there are plenty of other places where gun companies can establish production without having to put up with the NYS bullshyte. Amazing how all the companies that have dumped those North East states are doing even better in more gun friendly locales? According to you, if the workers elsewhere were so lazy and incompetent, they would be out of business, no?

I know exactly how much entry level assemblers were getting paid because they were, and are, not much more than parts assemblers, same way that fry flippers at McDonalds are. Ergo, they make entry level wages. If skilled, 1911 'smiths were getting paid less than Home Depot or Aldi workers, that's THEIR fault for putting up with it. End of conversation. No-one forced them to work at that business, no-one forced them to settle for low wages, they chose that pay and those conditions. Cry me a river and get over yourself. Self important arrogant clowns like you are the precisely the reason I choose to lurk more than post.
If you consider hand checkering the same as flipping burgers you're even dumber than I originally thought and that puts you in the same category as a possum. I never puffed myself up to be important, that would be you. I simply stated the facts of the matter. Like I said the people who worked there did so because they wanted to work with guns. There aren't many places to do that compared to many other occupations. They would have made a lot more money for less demanding work if they'd gotten jobs somwhere else. Obviously some people can't handle the truth.

Apparently reading and comprehension are what limited your ability to earn a decent wage. Go back and re-read what I said, not what you think I said. "Entry level assemblers" ring a bell dummkopf? I don't class checkering stocks in that category but as with buggy whip makers, machinery, including lasers and CNC have made checkering workers nigh on obsolete except for high end work.

Oh, you've made it abundantly clear that you consider yourself to be the smartest guy in the room. Again, they CHOSE to work where they did; crying about how poorly paid they were isn't the "truth," it's simply whining. The victimhood mentality you have is clear to all who read your drivel. The core focus of a business is to make money. Without making a profit, they can't stay in business, and labor is a significant cost to the business. Ergo, the need to balance profits over the cost of labor. Choosing to gloss over the multiple issues that the old Remington plant and NYS suffers from in terms of running a profitable firearms business, and blame the relocation of Remington to a lower cost, more gun friendly state on "union busting" is willfully ignorant.

It gets more complicated if you have investors who are demanding a return on their investment vs one person ownership. Personally, I preferred to treat my employees well, paying them above market, providing good benefits, working conditions, treating them with respect, and a pleasant working environment. Most of them reciprocated by working hard and taking ownership of issues, rather than thinking of themselves as wage slaves. Not all companies recognize that their employees are their greatest asset. Whiny biatches like you are a perfect example of what entitled employees look like.
Six dollars an hour sure as hell was an entry level wage in 1993 you stupid sunofabitch. Geesus talk about a lack of comprehension. It also went right over your fuucking pointy little head that Glock and Sig weren't paying better in the 2018 time frame given the difference in cost of living in their respective locales. The whole fuucking point for you stupid bastards is that gun making in general is not a lucrative proposition and without union representation like the work force at Remington had even less so. There's no fuuckin way a dumb bastard like you was ever bright enough to have run a company so you're nothing but a god damn liar.

Hardly a liar. There are people on this forum who can certainly vouch for me and my history in the firearms business. You, on the other hand are nothing but an obnoxious, petty little turd who can barely string a word or two together. What is abundantly clear is that you have little to no ability to understand what is actually written vs what you believe is written. Sigh. A guy with the skill of a gun stock checkerer is hardly entry level which is what I said before.

There are many people who have made a significant living in the firearms industry from my friend Randy Luth, the former owner of DPMS, to Ronnie Barrett, Reed Knight, Marty Daniel, Ronnie Power and many others. As a simple assembly employee, no, you ain't ever gonna get rich and if you're satisfied to trade your time for a pittance, well, that's on you bub. No different to spending your life as an employee at Walmart, or McDonalds or Goodyear. It's 100% clear you've never run any business because you're too busy whining and are dumber than a box of rocks. The man who knows how, will always work for the man who knows WHY.

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Blah, blah, blah, mouth. You're still not absorbing what is being said, yet you sit there accusing me of not being able to understand. For the extra dense, meaning YOU, what I said is stock checkering should NOT be an entry level position but the compensation offered CERTAINLY WAS an entry level wage or at least would be in most any other industry.

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Originally Posted by moosemike
They also made the best looking and best feeling bolt gun I ever saw too

In a thread that developed into a "I know more than you do"contest, this is the post I agree with most of all. I will also add that Remington made what was probably the best pump action shotgun ever made, the 870. Their 22 rimfires were pretty darn good as well, some of the best in the business. Also, though I'm not a huge semi-auto shotgun fan, I love the 11-87 guns.

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Its amazing there are those that would wish to maintain the status quo of a failing business because of "tradition" or keeping people employed. Even more, I'm astounded that people don't recognize that higher wages cause higher prices on the macro; ultimately leading to stagnant purchasing power. The only way to increase wages without increasing price is to somehow lower production cost simultaneously thus increasing profit. If you're not happy with what you make, find a different job or attain new skills that are higher in demand.

Last edited by drop_point; 12/11/23.

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The sole remaining Remington I have an interest in is a Wingmaster .410, but those are unobtanium apparently, and I don’t want a Fieldmaster after seeing one or two. This move isn’t going to help that. Not buying an online pig in a poke; I want to see and handle one first.

Wish ‘em luck, and hope someday they decide to make a solid .22 rifle…..


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Here's my take, FWIW...........the Remington rifles and shotguns that were made prior to around the 2000 time frame, were among the best firearms ever made. Things begin to change when Remington was bought by Cerberus Group around 2007. The quality of the firearms suffered as a result, and that hurt the Remington name. Having said that, I own quite a few Remingtons that were made during that time period, and while the fit and finish might not have been on par with the older ones, they shot every bit as good, and were maybe even more accurate.

I don't know anyone who worked for Remington, and hate to see people losing their jobs when a company decides to move, but I suspect this will be a good move for them. The idea that workers in the South can't make a gun as good as a worker in the North can is one of most ignorant things I've ever heard. If anything, it has been my experience that Southerners are better workers than their Northern counterparts. Whatever is the case, I'm just glad to see that the Remington name is still being stamped of guns, and what handful of the new made Remingtons I've seen have been a better quality product than what was being made in the last years of their production in New York.

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Remington does not anticipate any interruption in production. I don’t know about adding on to their facility in LaGrange, but I was told it’s business as usual.


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Originally Posted by drop_point
Its amazing there are those that would wish to maintain the status quo of a failing business because of "tradition" or keeping people employed. Even more, I'm astounded that people don't recognize that higher wages cause higher prices on the macro; ultimately leading to stagnant purchasing power. The only way to increase wages without increasing price is to somehow lower production cost simultaneously thus increasing profit. If you're not happy with what you make, find a different job or attain new skills that are higher in demand.
I'd rather my guns be made by people making a wage competetive with similar positions in other industries. Not by people who know they could be making more putting wiring harnesses together or making paint or shovel handles in nearby facilities. Why ? Because it's hard to get people to care about their work and strive to produce quality when they know they can get better pay somewhere else. The real shame is repeatedly watching the ones who do produce quality work and have a talent for it leave for more money elsewhere. Constantly having new, inexperienced workers is not a recipe for putting out a quality product..

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Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by drop_point
Its amazing there are those that would wish to maintain the status quo of a failing business because of "tradition" or keeping people employed. Even more, I'm astounded that people don't recognize that higher wages cause higher prices on the macro; ultimately leading to stagnant purchasing power. The only way to increase wages without increasing price is to somehow lower production cost simultaneously thus increasing profit. If you're not happy with what you make, find a different job or attain new skills that are higher in demand.
I'd rather my guns be made by people making a wage competetive with similar positions in other industries. Not by people who know they could be making more putting wiring harnesses together or making paint or shovel handles in nearby facilities. Why ? Because it's hard to get people to care about their work and strive to produce quality when they know they can get better pay somewhere else. The real shame is repeatedly watching the ones who do produce quality work and have a talent for it leave for more money elsewhere. Constantly having new, inexperienced workers is not a recipe for putting out a quality product..



Any trip to McDonald's will quickly remind you of the truth of that statement

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Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Originally Posted by drop_point
Its amazing there are those that would wish to maintain the status quo of a failing business because of "tradition" or keeping people employed. Even more, I'm astounded that people don't recognize that higher wages cause higher prices on the macro; ultimately leading to stagnant purchasing power. The only way to increase wages without increasing price is to somehow lower production cost simultaneously thus increasing profit. If you're not happy with what you make, find a different job or attain new skills that are higher in demand.
I'd rather my guns be made by people making a wage competetive with similar positions in other industries. Not by people who know they could be making more putting wiring harnesses together or making paint or shovel handles in nearby facilities. Why ? Because it's hard to get people to care about their work and strive to produce quality when they know they can get better pay somewhere else. The real shame is repeatedly watching the ones who do produce quality work and have a talent for it leave for more money elsewhere. Constantly having new, inexperienced workers is not a recipe for putting out a quality product..



Any trip to McDonald's will quickly remind you of the truth of that statement


There is a difference between going to McDonald's and going to a five star eatery. Both in expectations, talent, and cost/pay. Remington 700s are not high-end custom rifles.

Last edited by drop_point; 12/11/23.

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i am an old fashioned wood and blued steel guy. the last rifle i bought new is a Remington m7 in 7-08 with a 18.5" barrel in 1992 or '93. yes, i had some rifles that bought new, like the TC Venture in 25-06 or a Savage m116 in 223 Remington, but i sold as they were "black plastic" stocks and pieces. i have two TC Encore rifles and three 23" MGM barrels. i have a laminated Royal Jacaranda and a Saphire laminate on my Encores. other than that, wood stocks only.

since my dad died, i have a Remington m760 in '06, Remington m572 150th anniversary in 22LR, Remington m870 in .410 and a Remington m7 in 7-08 with a 18.5" barrel (i have 3 of them in the 7-08). also i bought a Remington m14 in 30 Remington.

i have had the Remington m700 A, B and CDL in the 243 Winchester, '06, 270 Winchester, 223 Remington and others. also i had a Remington m760 in 308 Winchester. i was a big fan of the Remington, but no more now.

i know that Remington, Winchester, Savage and others has to make a profit. CNC machines make that true. "Tupperware" stocks are made by dozens. yes, CNC machines make the rifle more accurate and faster to assemble with less people. if Remington or Savage or TC comes out with a product you like and can afford, buy it. there is always some guy (like me) that likes wood and blued steel over the Tupperware stocks and stainless-steel barrels. checkering the wood never bothered me. i look at wood grain and how it flows, not checkering or engraving anything else that floats your boat. you want sleek lines, go to a '91 Argentine Mauser made by Lowes. smooth action, go to a Krag. semi shotgun, Browning A-5 ( both, 12ga and the 16ga, that were my dad's). pump shotgun, Mossberg m500 in 12 ga.


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Just my 2 cents in the on going contest.

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Labor costs may be lower in Georgia. Nonetheless, I would have avoided Georgia like the plague if I wanted to build guns. Georgia is the #1 Judicial Hellhole in the country. It's run by plaintiff attorneys and suing for the slightest matter is routine there. And verdicts are off the charts. New York labor may be more, but New York isn't a worse legal environment than Georgia.

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