Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Do you like the new 'modernized' cartridges?

Agreed

Yes--but no, it wasn't "created by the superhype and marketing." Have pointed this out many times before, but here's my chapter on the 6.5 Creedmoor in my Gun Gack IV, The Little Book of Rifle Loads That Work, published in the fall of 2022:

Contrary to what many believe, the 6.5 Creedmoor appeared long before dozens of magazine articles started showing up after about 2010. The cartridge was announced in 2007 as a specialized target round, and it took a while before hunters to “discover it”—including me, which was NOT due to corporate publicity.

This discovery occurred in 2010 during a stop at Capital Sports, where Dave Tobel, head of the gun department, knew I was always looking for article potential. He suggested one of the line-up of walnut-stocked Ruger 77 Hawkeye sporters behind the counter—all 6.5 Creedmoors, which Dave said other customers reported shot “crazy accurately.”

I phoned Lee Hoots, editor of Handloader magazine, from a quiet corner of the store, asking if he’d like an article on the cartridge. Lee said yes, so I bought a Hawkeye and some Hornady factory, and wrote the first 6.5 Creedmoor in Handloader, appearing early in 2011.

The first five rounds fired at 100 yards were factory 140-grain A-Maxes, which went into .63 inch—with the wind blowing from mild to 10 mph gusts. The other ammo featured 120 A-Maxes, and shot similarly. Getting handloads to shoot well was equally easy, and I took a pronghorn with the rifle in October.

After that I sold the rifle, figuring I was done with the 6.5 Creedmoor—but more of my editors started becoming interested in the round, and Lee assigned a follow-up piece a few years later. Eventually I ended up owning several 6.5 Creedmoors, and testing three others ranging in price from a $300 Thompson/Center Compass to a semi-custom H-S Precision costing more than 10 times as much.

Even the Compass would group three shots of Hornady ammo in an inch, which until pretty recently was considered exceptional for an out-of the-box rifle with factory ammo.

Probably the most accurate rifle was a Ruger American Predator, the model with a slight heavier-contour barrel than the standard sporter-weight. By the time I bought it in 2017 experimentation had proven the original Hornady factory load’s 41.5 grains of H4350 with the 140 V-Max worked well with any bullet in the 140-grain range, so I loaded up some 140-grain Berger VLDs with 41.5 grains, seating the bullets just shy of the lands. Eileen happened to be along on that range-trip, and was on the spotting scope when I fired the first group at 100 yards. The first bullet landed a little low and left of the bull, but she couldn’t find the hole from the second round, so I fired a third—and as the late Mickey Coleman put it, “the hole got a little darker.” Eventually five rounds went into .33 inch, and while the load didn’t always group quite like that in the Predator, it stayed under half an inch.

Several new powders with similar burn-rates have appeared since my first Creedmoor, including Alliant Reloder 16, IMR4451 and Vihtavuorhi N555. In fact, IMR4451 was partly developed as a substitute for H4350 during a “component shortage” when it became difficult to get enough H4350 shipped from the Australian manufacturer. The General Dynamics plant in Quebec came up with a similar powder, also temp-resistant but including a copper remover.

IMR4451 is double-based, so is capable of a little more velocity than H4350—and in every cartridge I’ve tried it in so far, accuracy has improved slightly over H4350. Reloder 16 and N550 are also double-based with a copper remover, and have also done quite well. In fact, N555 was introduced mostly for the 6.5 Creedmoor, with a burn-rate between N550 and N560.

The round’s accuracy is due to more than the 30-degree shoulder and relatively short case body, which have been common “accuracy” features ever since the 6mm PPC appeared. The standard SAAMI chamber also contributes, since unlike the 6x5x55 and .260 Remington the throat’s shorter, and barely over .264-inch in diameter, which keeps bullets better-aligned as they leave the neck and enter the rifling.

So no, the 6.5 Creedmoor did not become popular thanks to a massive publicity campaign. Instead it became popular because hunters finally noticed the inherent accuracy of a fine design—the reason I shoot 5-shot groups with most 6.5 Creedmoors, resulting in more accurate information for longer-range shooting, whether on targets or game.

Nice historical perspective & information, JB.

Thanks for posting that.

MM

There’s been a lot of fussing over the new straight-wall rounds, pointing out that they don’t do anything new, and ignoring the simple fact that they spawned by regulations that permitted rifles that fit inside certain parameters, ill-considered though some may be, and allow folks to use accurate weapons with less recoil and more affordable ammunition. I don’t need one here, but if I lived elsewhere I’d be all over one of them. Since most of them are also AR-friendly, they’re also an interesting option for defensive use. I’ve seen subsonic loads for the .350, and maybe the .450 if memory serves (!)

Yeah I see a lot of outrage over the new straight wall cartridges. Guys calling them "gimmicks" and ranting against state regs. It always strikes me funny how people get so angry about new chamberings.

The cost of slugs probably has a bunch of lobbyists in the political arena stirring it up also.

Being upset about someone’s choice reminds me of a story.

If I bellied up to the bar in leadore years ago, at the Silver Dollar, ( and it was busy)I would order an Olympia beer.

So many people I knew, even those I didn’t, would get upset enough about my choice in suds…..

They would buy me a “ better beer”.

It worked several times.

One thing that comes up often in the rants is that companies should be making more ammo for old-timers like the .35 R and such instead of coming up with new stuff. Guess those Midwestern hunters should just stick with their slug guns so Uncle Joe-Bob can always find a box of Cor-Lokts for his Marlin any time he waltzes into Walmart, every 5 or 10 years or so….

Not only cost, but availability. Before the straight-walls arrived, it was common here to see posts looking for fancy slugs that had been discontinued.

I picked up an old Deerslayer a few months back, smoothbore of course, and dialing it in “just in case” reminded me just how lively a light 12 was when shooting Fosters. A friend was watching me at the bench and told me that little cannon was really knocking me around, like I didn’t already know that!

That's no joke, companies were absolutely terrible about discontinuing slugs at a whim. I traded off a couple slug guns that were very diet picky over the years because thier slug of choice got axed, and nothing else shot that well from them.

I secured enough Tru-Balls and Brennekes to keep me in traction for the rest of my life, maybe my grandchildren too. I have one more doe day coming up Sunday, and though I don’t need any more meat, I might just have to trot out that Deerslayer and sit a while over a WMA foodplot for a few hours.

I'm hoping to never shoot another slug again the rest of my life now that we can use some rifle cartridges here. I'm pretty recoil sensitive, so they were never a fun time for me, just a necessity to hunt.

I did keep the last slug gun just in case though, and I've got enough ammo stashed to feed it for several seasons if I had to.

The tradeoff slug guns were mostly during my mid 20s/early 30s when I just flat out didn't have the means to build up stashes of ammo or components. Had a pretty bad run there for a while when I was 100% flatass broke.

I remember, back in the late 60s, stopping at every open store at 5 am on the way to go hunting in Southern Maryland, looking for slugs, generally Remington Fosters. Couple bucks a box IIRC. Good times!

I talked to Mel owner of Mel’s Sporting Goods in Spicer Minnesota.

He bought a bunch of slugs, then hired a small plane to fly them into Willmar. The event was broadcast live on KWLM.

I do, about got my season ruined by an old ranch hand sending me a pic of a monster buck in velvet last august, have hunted him pretty hard all season, with time running out i went to work last Tuesday and yesterday filling meat tags, two doe, a button buck and a 7pt fell to 230gr ATips leaving my 300 PRC at 2930 fps, ranges 309, 436, 472 and 522 yards, no animal went more than 15-20 yard death dash.

Yup. The new 350 Legend and 360 Buckhammer have the 35 Remington crowd rending their garments and gnashing their teeth

I liked the 20 gauge slugs better they didn't brutalized you

The best part is they are smaller calibers, less powder , less bullet . After using my .243 WIn. on the last bunch of deer , my .270 Win. stays in the basement. Gone are the days of an 06, that is best for moose , bear and elk for a 150 lb deer. Heck, I might even go as small as a .223 Rem. for deer. Everyone that uses them say they are the hammer.

I like the modern case designs. I think the 6.5 CM is just dandy-but I don't own any of them.

My "most modern cartridge" chambered firearm is the 223 Rem. ( 44 mag and 308 right behind the 223 Rem).

When you get down to it, new chamberings may indeed be "new" but they don't improve upon other time-tested chamberings. That's called "marketing." Is any cartridge that hit the market in the last 50+ years really that remarkable or different from another cartridge in the same caliber? I think not.

Would really like to read about your test results with various cartridge introduced in the past 50 years.

Could a rifle/barrel maker alter the “ throat” in a cartridge to emulate the creedmore in other cartridges?