Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Spiegel EG change..

So from all of our previous research, searching and finding catalogs, we had the Spiegel EG's starting around 359,000 in 1937.

That might just be... quite wrong.

At the Tulsa show in November, there was a very early, uncheckered 99EG in 303. But it had the same studs and target mount d&t holes as a Spiegel. Odd coincidence. I have EG's starting at SN 347,000 in my book, and this was even lower - 346,489.

Cody was there, so I paid the fee and got ledger info on it.. and it was not a real early EG being it was shipped Oct, 1935 (and EGs are on the Feb. 1935 pricelist)... BUT.. it was indeed shipped to Spiegel.

So I don't know if this was a test rifle sent to Spiegel, or part of a shipment. Guns were selling very slowly in 1935 (Depression), so they might have just taken some finished EG's on the rack that hadn't shipped and added studs and d&t and shipped them to Spiegel.

These early Spiegels only had the studs and d&t, they weren't roll-stamped.

But this means that even very early 99EG's you find with the studs and d&t might be a Spiegel EG regardless of the serial number. Something to watch for. I'd have bought it, but spent my money on other things and it was going up on auction after Tulsa.

So on page 85 of my book, change the starting serial number from 359,000 at the top of the page and under Style 1 to 346,000.

PS: And on page 81, change the start of the 99EG at the top of the page and under Style 1 from 347,000 to 346,000 also.

At least it was in the existing ledger serial number range. Any purchase isn't required to gain data. Good job.

While we have documented a good number of configurations of the "Spiegel", and there are many. Wouldn't surprised if there are more.

I still have #377211, 99EG, 303, 22", rnd, no checking, no studs, no roll stamp, but, it does have D&T (B&M style). Doesn't fit squarely in the "Spiegel" versions at this time.
At Savage Fest 2014 Grogel Deluxe and I laid his target blocks over the holes and they aligned perfectly. I regret not buying them.

Due to the s.n. and the D&T I would bet it too is a "Spiegel".

Not to get this thread off track, but what every happened to Gary Grogel?

We haven't heard from him in a coon's age.

Interesting.

I have two Spiegels. 300 and 303. The 300 has the target blocks. Trying to figure out the best scope to go on there.

RAS

He last signed in a month ago. So still hanging out there, tho he hasn't posted since June.

Just acquired a set of blocks to go on a Spiegel.. we think. Haven't dug one out to see if they fit, or thought about the scope and rings that I'll put on top of it.

The 1935 Fall & Winter Spiegel catalog only lists the 99H, CORRECTION for 1935 F&W, the EG is listed & described, but not pictured, I missed that, the 1936 Fall & Winter lists the 99EG and 99H (with the wrong picture for the H, they did have it right in the 1935), it makes sense they would start getting their inventory well before that to prepare the catalog. I do not have a 1936 Spring & Summer, but those usually had fewer guns listed. These could be had with a Marlin scope, these were drilled & tapped for standard scope blocks to mount those. The next year they switched to Mossberg scope.

it doesn't say but I guess those prices included the scope and mount.
the rifle shown as a 99H is actually a 99B with the medium weight barrel made between 1926/7 and about 1934. It wasn't even in production when this catalog came out.

I have EG style Speigel 356,816 no checkering, no roll-stamp, flat bottom sling studs, rear tang has the extra (B&M?) two holes, and plugged barrel holes under the rear sight ramp.

These barrel block holes under the rear sight only appear on the Speigels, correct?

Did the Malcolm scope models have the barrel block in a different location? And this Speigel ad picture shows the barrel block well forward of the rear sght

That EG in the picture is not using the holes that we normally see on the barrel under the rear sight for its front scope mount ?? might be a earlier style, or just plain target mounts.

To the best of our knowledge, it's just an incorrect catalog picture. We haven't seen a Spiegel EG with that spacing on the d&t.

Some other 99's show up with those d&t holes for target blocks in the mid-late 30's, but most seem to be Spiegel EG's. I have a 99R in 250-3000 with the holes, for example.

Ignore the hole location shown in the renditions, the front ring on the scope is always to far forward. In earlier catalogs they did do a better job with the picture of the 99H. This is a year earlier before they started offering scopes.

Yep, they sold the 99H's.. but never drilled them as far as we know. Never quite understood that.. didn't think it was a good idea on a 20" barrel gun? The 99H was also the cheapest model, so maybe didn't think anybody would want it on the utility model?

Rory, Joe's 99H has has the Spiegel taps.

Have we talked about that one?? Probably forgot. s.n.? pics?, etc.

Rick has my 303H with the Spiegel holes in his data.

We have seen it before.. the problem is it's a sample of one. If the catalogs said they were or if we had multiple specimens, I'd be all on board. It's very believable.

But the catalogs said the EG's were drilled, and the H's weren't. And we've only seen one, and we can't be 100% sure that wasn't done aftermarket. Or just a special order thru Spiegel, or for a Spiegel manager/whatnot.

We could end up with Spiegel 99H's.. just need to find more.

I looked to see when they dropped the 99H, it is not in the 1937 F&W catalog, so it would have only been offered for about 1 year after they started drilling & tapping, and those may have been old inventory. My records say I have a 1937 Spring & Summer, but I can't find it, I might just have scans on the computer.

I also found I made a mistake about the 1935 Fall & Winter, I just looked at it quick and saw just the 199H pictured, the 99EG is listed & described, but not pictured.


1937 F&W


This is one of the special Mossberg scopes made exclusively for Spiegel that show up in 1938, they had a special extended sunscreen on the front, it's just setting where it would go, this gun does not have the holes for it. This scope looks identical to another Mossberg for Spiegel I have, but this one has a much longer eye relief, more suited for high power rifles.

Thank you, Gene!

Very interesting !!