Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Captain Thomas Weir, 7th Cavalry

Finding a senior officer you could count on, was not in the cards. Custer’s closest allies went with him as they were very close as friends and family. Custer, Reno and Benteen had no use for one another. Benteen had already been sent on the oblique when Custer and Reno came down the Middle Fork of Reno Creek where they came upon the Lone Teepee and the 18-20 Indians that were hanging around nearby.

Custer could have sent Reno on the scout, but like him or not, I’m sure Custer knew Benteen was a truly capable cavalry officer. I’m also sure Custer figured on Benteen to return much sooner than he did.

Being separated by miles in unfamiliar territory, makes for a recipe for disaster when the territory is full of 100’s of Indian warriors…

Seems like the Comanches were a whole diff’rent ballgame compared to their more impoverished relatives up north. Abundant buffalo and horses beyond measure.

Relevant to command and control consider Buffalo Hump’s (whose name IIRC actually translated to “constant erection”) organization of the Great Comanche Raid of August 1840. Somewhere around 500 Comanche and Kiowa warriors accompanied by hundreds of women and youths launched a lighting strike into settled Texas.

Passing by all else they hit Victoria and then the coastal port of Linnville, which probably not coincidentally were respectively the seat of government and the location of the arsenal of the Mexican Federalist Government in Exile.

The reaction of the Texians was somewhat muted on account of most members of the Texian army in San Antonio had left to go and fight in the cause of the short-lived Republic of the Rio Grande.

The Indians sacked and burned Linnville (IIRC $300,000 worth of goods and 3,000 horses and mules between Victoria and Linnville).
Slowed down by their loot, they ran into 100+armed Texians at the Battle of Plum Creek.

The Texians termed Plum Creek a victory tho they made the mistake of dismounting to fight allowing the great majority of the Indian formation to pass by while screened by a rear guard. Most of the uncertain number of Comanche casualties were reportedly inflicted by a party of Tonkawas on foot, who ran 25 miles overnight to join the fight.

But, to the main point, a force of American or European cavalry would be hard-pressed to match the speed and cohesion of that raid.

In the following decade the Comanches would launch mass raids into Mexico, overwintering there in large camps while despoiling and depopulating much of Northern Mexico.

Doom was on the horizon tho, in the form of the Cholera epidemic of the winter of ‘49/‘50 which wiped out an estimated half the tribe (said cholera seeded across the plains by the ‘49er gold rush) followed by a devastating drought in the 1850’s that drove even Buffalo Hump to accept a reservation.

Another thing to consider is that the cavalry was fighting by orders and Indians were fighting for their lives…

Being separated by miles in unfamiliar territory, is a recipe for disaster.

Custers Scouts claimed many warriors ahead.

Custer chose to separate 15 miles before the hostile encampent.

He commanded a charge 2 miles before seeing the enemy. He released his scout’s before the charge. He also went sans sabers. Probably because the mules were so far behind.

He hadn’t properly fed or watered his horses/ mules for over 48 hours.
It was very dry, hot, and many Indian ponies had just been through, grazing off what little there was.

His troop took a whopping 15 shots of practice each , the year before they embarked.

He failed to support Reno’s attack.

Yet he was without error in his decisions. He was golden.

Sitting Bulls Vision showed the soldiers riding into camp upside down.

Guess it was just an unlucky deal for the General.


The rest of the remaining troop was able to hold ‘em off ok the next few days. When they stuck together and had their mule train.

That's a great picture of the area! There was a map in Camp's reference file that has "Indians watching Custer's men" marked on it, which I assume is the band of Indians to which you are referring.

Kanipe's correspondence with Camp:

1.--Trumpeter Martin says that <some time> after Gen. Custer separated from Reno, up
by the burning tepee, he halted his five troops about five minutes
and watered his horses. He says Custer then cautioned his men not
to permit the horses to drink too much, as there was much marching
ahead. I do not know where this could be unless it was at the ravi<ne>
<that> we crossed when on the way to Reno hill, where I got out of the wagon
and went ahead to see where we could drive across, as you will rem-
ember. While I was hunting a place to cross you and the driver went
ahead with the team and drove over all right. I guess you will re-
member the place <that> I mean. It was about half way between the place
where Curley showed us the location of the lone tepee and Reno hill. <I>
noticed that there had been water there earlier in the season.
Now if Custer watered horses there you were with him, and I
wish you could tell me whether you remember watering at that place.
If not, where did Custer last water his horses before you left him?

1ST QUESTION: I remember the place where you and Curly and I crossed
the ravine very well. Custer did not stop to water any horses at this
ravine. As you will remember, I told you that we saw Indians on the
bluff which caused Custer to turn to the right with his five compa-
nies. I do not remember of seeing any water in that ravine the day
that Custer and his five companies crossed it on the 25th day of
June 1876. The five companies were moving at a trot to the top of
the bluff. The last place and the only place that the horses were
watered that morning was some distance above the burning tepee where
we crossed Benteen's Creek the last time, which put us on the side
with the burning tepee.

Of course, neither Custer or Benteen would water horses when they are in a hurry to get shot to pieces by some Indians.


The first picture is Reno Creek on June 25, 2023. The anniversary of the battle, during runoff in June and this is what Custer had to deal with. There is plenty references to watering horses at the morass and having trouble crossing Reno Creek.

The second picture is the Little Bighorn River on the same day last June. It was high and fast, much as it would have been in 1876. This is where Reno crossed to seek cover on top of the bluffs. Crossing that river under those conditions wasn’t an easy endeavor and of course no horses got any water there either because it was more important to get to the top of the hill than see to any horses…

I thought it was the Lakota who were invading the Crow; thus, the Crow teamed up with Custer to oust the Lakota (simplified version).

The Crow did inhabit the Black Hills until the Sioux forced the Crow from the Black Hills because the Sioux were forced out of their homeland due to invasion. That is why the Crow hated the Sioux and scouted for Custer.

Of course you have the PC revisionist historians that are upset at the United States for breaking the Laramie treaty of 1868 and taking back the Black Hills from the Sioux once gold was discovered there.

A constant struggle for real estate is what created so much division in America and if you look at who should have been compensated for that land grab, it should have been the Crow.

Who knows what tribe was there before the Crow…

I have been to LBH in 2021 and got to explore the battlefield and talk to the Indian who hung out at the TeePee sales/gift shop/diner. It was very interesting to see the terrain and distances involved. Still, what helps me most to understand the battle was this youtube video below.

Here is an interesting video which features a cavalryman who was at the Little Big Horn battlefield the day AFTER the fight.



L.W.

I said before, history is the same on every continent and in every century.
The strong will take what they want from the weak. Usually it’s land and resources, but not always. Sometimes it’s just pure greed and hatred.
The only way to hold on to what you got, is to be prepared to defend what you got.
Certain freedoms are about all we Americans have left. Our wealth and resources are being stripped from us.
Reon

Another interesting video about the officers in Custer’s battalion who were killed that day.
Custer’s Officers
To be continued…

Wanted to add this link.
Lt Henry Harrington
Harrington was in command of Company C. That was brother Tom’s command, but he was serving on the Generals staff, so it fell to Harrington.
Years after the battle, a set of remains was found a good distance away from Last Stand Hill.
The did a facial reconstruction from the skull, and concluded that it was Lt Harrington’s remains.
I have read this book, and it’s pretty convincing.
Just wondering if Shrapnel is aware of this, and ask his opinion.
Reon

.
Extensive and detailed battlefield tour 1-1/2 hours
Easy to listen to narrator

After I closed out Donovan, I waded back into Philbrick’s “Last Stand.
As I said, I’m known to reread a lot of my books because I always pick up information that I missed before. These two and Connell on LBH especially, several others.
I don’t watch TV, I read!😀
Anyway, i mentioned before how both Washita and LBH came about due to bad reconnaissance, or no reconnaissance at all.
Lieutenant Godfrey was in the 7th Cavalry at both battles, and many more besides. He eventually attained the rank of general through his service, most of it fighting against Indians.
Godfrey is quoted as to doing reconnaissance against an Indian village that it was nearly impossible to come up with good intel for the simple reason that if you didn’t strike immediately at a village, they were likely to scatter, and you’d end up with an empty sack. Even in wintertime, the natives, if given a heard start, were likely to leave a cavalry unit in the dust.
Custer learned this the hard way when pursuing the Cheyenne in Kansas under General WS Hancock.
Also, remind yourself that the Indians were fully aware of the location of all the Army units maneuvering against them, and they also knew where The Far West was at at any given time.
Godfrey never faulted Custer to my knowledge for anything that I can recall.
Sure, the officers banded together to whitewash the Reno inquiry. I guess for the integrity of the Regiment but if any of the surviving officers ever criticized Custer directly, I don’t recall reading about it.
I know Benteen always found some kind of fault in everything Custer ever did, but he comes across to me as very cantankerous, vindictive , and spiteful towards most everyone he served under.
It must be pure hell to be better at everything you do, and constantly serving under somebody who is obviously inferior to you!😀
Reon

Got this from Facebook.
I REMEMBER well. None of us who were there could forget. I was almost eighteen that summer. Never before or since that time did my people gather in such great numbers. Our camp on the Greasy Grass [Little Bighorn] stretched four miles along the river -- six great camp circles, each a half mile across, with thousands of Lakota fighting men and their families.
In that long-ago time none of my people knew more than a thousand numbers. We believed no honest man needed to know more than that many. There was my own tribe, the Miniconjou. There were our cousins, the Hunkpapa, the Sans Arc, the Two Kettles, the Sihasapa [Blackfoot Sioux], the Brulé, and the Oglala -- all our Seven Council Fires. There were many of our eastern relatives, too -- the Yankton and the Santee. And our kinsmen from the north were there -- the Yanktonai and the Assiniboin. Our friends and allies the Cheyenne were there in force, and with them were smaller bands of Arapaho and Gros Ventre. It was a great village and we had great leaders.
Hump, Fast Bull, and High Backbone led my tribe. Crazy Horse headed the Oglala. lnkpaduta [Scarlet Tip] led the Santee. Lame White Man and Ice Bear led the Cheyenne. But the greatest leader of all was the chief of the Hunkpapa -- Sitting Bull. As long as we were all camped together, we looked on him as head chief. We all rallied around him because he stood for our old way of life and the freedom we had always known. We were not there to make war, but, if need be, we were ready to fight for our sacred rights. Since the white man's government had promised our leaders that we could wander and hunt in our old territory as long as the grass should grow, we did not believe the white soldiers had any business in our hunting grounds. Vet they came to attack us anyway.
I slept late the morning of the fight. The day before, I had been hunting buffalo and I had to ride far to find the herds because there were so many people in the valley. I came back with meat, but I was very tired. So when I got up, the camp women were already starting out to dig for wild turnips. Two of my uncles had left early for another buffalo hunt. Only my grandmother and a third uncle were in the tepee, and the sun was high overhead and hot. I walked to the river to take a cool swim, then got hungry and returned to the tepee at dinner time [noon].
"When you finish eating," my uncle said, "go to our horses. Something might happen today. I feel it in the air."
I hurried to Muskrat Creek and joined my younger brother, who was herding the family horses. By the time I reached the herd, I heard shouting in the village. People were yelling that white soldiers were riding toward the camp.
Iron HaiI climbed Black Butte for a look around the country. I saw a long column of soldiers coming and a large party of Hunkpapa warriors, led by Sitting Bull's nephew, One Bull, riding out to meet them. I could see One Bull's hand raised in the peace sign to show the soldiers that our leaders only wanted to talk them into going away and leaving us alone. But all at once the soldiers spread out for attack and began to fire, and the fight was on. I caught my favorite war pony, a small buckskin mustang I called Sung Zi Ciscila [Little Yellow Horse] and raced him back to camp to get ready for battle.
I had no time to paint Zi Ciscila properly for making war, just a minute or so to braid his tail and to dab a few white hail spots of paint on my own forehead for protection before I galloped out on the little buckskin to help defend the camp. I met four other Lakotas riding fast. Three were veteran fighters, armed with rifles; the other was young like me and carried a bow and arrows as I did. One of the veterans went down. I saw my chance to act bravely and filled the gap. We all turned when we heard shooting at the far side of the village nearest the Miniconjou camp circle and rode fast to meet this new danger. I could see swirls of dust and hear shooting on the hills and bluffs across the river. Hundreds of other warriors joined us as we splashed across the ford near our camp and raced up the hills to charge into the thickest of the fighting.
This new battle was a turmoil of dust and warriors and soldiers, with bullets whining and arrows hissing all around. Sometimes a bugle would sound and the shooting would get louder. Some of the soldiers were firing pistols at close range. Our knives and war clubs flashed in the sun. I could hear bullets whiz past my ears. But I kept going and shouting, "It's a good day to die!" so that everyone who heard would know I was not afraid of being killed in battle.
Then a Lakota named Spotted Rabbit rode unarmed among us, calling out a challenge to all the warriors to join him. He shouted, "Let's take their leader alive!" I had no thought of what we would do with this leader once we caught him; it was a daring feat that required more courage and much more skill than killing him. I dug my heels into my pony's flanks to urge him on faster to take part in the capture.
A tall white man in buckskins kept shouting; at the soldiers and looked to be their leader. Following Spotted Rabbit, I charged toward this leader in buckskins. We were almost on top of him when Spotted Rabbit's pony was shot from under him. Zi Ciscila shied to one side, and it was too late.
Miniconjou named Charging Hawk rushed in and shot the leader at close range. In a little while all the soldiers were dead. The battle was over.
The soldier chief we had tried to capture lay on the ground with the reins of his horse's bridle tied to his wrist. It was a fine animal, a blaze-faced sorrel with four white stockings. A Santee named Walks-Under-the-Ground took that [Custer's] horse. Then he told everyone that the leader lying there dead was Long Hair; so that was the first I knew who we had been fighting. I thought it was a strange name for a soldier chief who had his hair cut short. [Note: Lazy White Bull said the Santee who got Custer's horse was named Sound the Ground as He Walks which is also sometimes translated as Noisy Walking.]
Our attempt to save Long Hair's life had failed. But we all felt good about our victory over the soldiers and celebrated with a big scalp dance. But our triumph was hollow. A winter or so later more soldiers came to round us up on reservations. There were too many of them to fight now. We were split up into bands and no longer felt strong. At last we were ready for peace and believed we would have no more trouble.
Putinhin aka WasuMaza. Dewey Beard.

Found the video that lead me to the book I mentioned.
Lt Henry Harrington
I did want to get Shrapnel’s opinion on this. I know he’s got much more knowledge and experience with this than I do.
Reon

If this highlighted quote from the account of this Indian is suggesting that this leader is Custer, it is erroneous. Custer was not wearing his buckskin jacket at the time of the battle. If it is an account of someone in buckskin that resembles Custer, I can’t say, but as it is written it is inferring that it is Custer.

This could have absolutely no association to a personal contact with Custer, but it seems so. This is one of the reasons that so much speculation has been submitted by witnesses as well as others reading of such testimonials and how easily the truth can be polluted.

It is also evident by different accounts of individuals here, how much they may have studied the battle. Reconnaissance is a topic often brought up showing lack of leadership when referring to Custer. Not a single person here has any experience in dealing with the Indian wars on the Western Frontier. Custer had more encounters with plains Indians than just the Washita and Little Bighorn.

From the Crows nest in the Wolf Mountains, Custer, through borrowed binoculars was shown that there were thousands of ponies on the prairie to the west of the Little Bighorn river, which was out of sight from that viewpoint. His scouts told him that there were superior numbers of Indians in that camp and to resist making any attack on that camp. Custer did meet with his officers that morning to formulate a plan of attack. Again it was suggested to keep the command together, but Custer sent Benteen on an oblique to the South and west to determine if there were any Indians scattering to escape the pursuit of the cavalry. This would be considered reconnaissance.

At this point, many become critical, as it is easy to say this was a bad move in light of what happened later that day. Custer had no opportunity to second guess the situation after the fact, because no one at this juncture in any conflict has that ability to do so.

Running into a small band of Indians at the site of the lone teepee, is also a point of determination of what course of action you take, and at some point becomes reconnaissance in the field. At this point Custer is still assuming Benteen will return to bolster the battalion to remain as cohesive as it can in an attempt to attack an Indian village and capture the non combatants to gain control of the Indian encampment.

Many other overlooked instances of being in command and what choices you make, and how they are made in regard to your personal experiences and training, which cause you to weigh circumstances that won’t always be the same from one individual to another.

Lt. Godfrey and General Nelson A. Miles, both seasoned Indian wars leaders, were nowhere near as critical of Custer as many of the readers and writers have been over the years, and I tend to think they are much more correct in their assessment of Custer and the Little Bighorn…

Thanks Shrap.