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Sure they would. Money talks.
Facts are facts. Vortex is garbage. Just because you're emotionally invested in Vortex does not change facts.
So because you love vortex, you hate Form. Pretty funny. See, this right here is what I'm talking about. But, hey, feel free to guess what percentage of my optics are currently Vortex. đ Edit: since you edited, I take what both say with a grain of salt. One gets paid by the company the other has an obvious beef with the company. Form's drop test says the Helos gen2 2-12 is hot garbage. Doesn't seem to stop people here from using them without a huge percentage of issues. Funny how that works..... I don't care if you give two s hits about what I post. You are a f ucking clown that is married to a company because you bought something from them. Even with a 40% discount vortex is still over priced garbage. BTW still waiting for anyone to provide any actual proof Form is being paid by an optic company for his evaluations. Um, I don't have any Vortex scopes right now. I'm just not an intellectually sophomoric retard that thinks the logical fallacy of the false dichotomy is a great way to look at things. đ
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anyone saying 100% of X scopes are good or 100% are bad is full of it and has an agenda. Where did Form or Ilya say that? Form's never met a Vortex he likes. But I want only referring to them. đ Thatâs different from claiming that 100% of them are bad. One is a statement about a limited sample, and the other is a claim about the entire population of scopes.
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People don't like Form because he is objective and he doesn't care about yer feelers, just the facts.
The Illya guy is just projecting. Hate to break it too you, but an agenda is an agenda, and both have one. If Vortex scope sucked half as bad and were half as fragile as he says, they wouldn't be on the rifles of top shooters in high numbers. It is what it is, but anyone saying 100% of X scopes are good or 100% are bad is full of it and has an agenda. Whether said agenda is based on money or feelings doesn't really matter If the âtop shootersâ are getting sponsoredâŚ. The same criticism of Form (paid shill?) applies to any of the Vortex freaks. As Jordan said, Formâs scope testing aligns with my personal experiences, so Iâm inclined to believe his advice. I think it is certainly possible to thoroughly and accurately assess a scope and then drive across the country and hunt elk like a total goober. YMMV. Do you believe a "top shooter" would take a sponsorship that made him lose over providing his own scope he can win with?
"Full time night woman? I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever balled for beads."
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Campfire Ranger
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Formadillio has a vivid imagination..... 
Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is âgoodâ youâre way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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People don't like Form because he is objective and he doesn't care about yer feelers, just the facts.
The Illya guy is just projecting. Hate to break it too you, but an agenda is an agenda, and both have one. If Vortex scope sucked half as bad and were half as fragile as he says, they wouldn't be on the rifles of top shooters in high numbers. It is what it is, but anyone saying 100% of X scopes are good or 100% are bad is full of it and has an agenda. Whether said agenda is based on money or feelings doesn't really matter If the âtop shootersâ are getting sponsoredâŚ. The same criticism of Form (paid shill?) applies to any of the Vortex freaks. As Jordan said, Formâs scope testing aligns with my personal experiences, so Iâm inclined to believe his advice. I think it is certainly possible to thoroughly and accurately assess a scope and then drive across the country and hunt elk like a total goober. YMMV. Do you believe a "top shooter" would take a sponsorship that made him lose over providing his own scope he can win with? Depends on how much the sponsorship is. As for competitions, surely they check and double check their zero prior to a course of fire? That could mitigate the vortex wandering zero. The Real test would be zero the gun before the competition and leave it alone for the entire match. Wonder how many do that..
Last edited by Jackson_Handy; 02/04/24.
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People don't like Form because he is objective and he doesn't care about yer feelers, just the facts.
The Illya guy is just projecting. Hate to break it too you, but an agenda is an agenda, and both have one. If Vortex scope sucked half as bad and were half as fragile as he says, they wouldn't be on the rifles of top shooters in high numbers. It is what it is, but anyone saying 100% of X scopes are good or 100% are bad is full of it and has an agenda. Whether said agenda is based on money or feelings doesn't really matter If the âtop shootersâ are getting sponsoredâŚ. The same criticism of Form (paid shill?) applies to any of the Vortex freaks. As Jordan said, Formâs scope testing aligns with my personal experiences, so Iâm inclined to believe his advice. I think it is certainly possible to thoroughly and accurately assess a scope and then drive across the country and hunt elk like a total goober. YMMV. Do you believe a "top shooter" would take a sponsorship that made him lose over providing his own scope he can win with? Depends on how much the sponsorship is. As for competitions, surely they check and double check their zero prior to a course of fire? That could mitigate the vortex wandering zero. So you haven't done much competition shooting. Well, for starters, for PRS you may fire up to a couple hundred rounds over the course of two or three days. You will dial up and down dozens of times. There is sometimes a zero-range set-up the day before to confirm zero, but that's just about it. PRS rifles get knocked around more in one match than you do in ten years of hunting. They have to hold zero and track. No, they aren't making compromises on gear because of a "sponsorship" that really doesn't amount to much more than discounted or free optics.
"Full time night woman? I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever balled for beads."
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People don't like Form because he is objective and he doesn't care about yer feelers, just the facts.
The Illya guy is just projecting. Hate to break it too you, but an agenda is an agenda, and both have one. If Vortex scope sucked half as bad and were half as fragile as he says, they wouldn't be on the rifles of top shooters in high numbers. It is what it is, but anyone saying 100% of X scopes are good or 100% are bad is full of it and has an agenda. Whether said agenda is based on money or feelings doesn't really matter If the âtop shootersâ are getting sponsoredâŚ. The same criticism of Form (paid shill?) applies to any of the Vortex freaks. As Jordan said, Formâs scope testing aligns with my personal experiences, so Iâm inclined to believe his advice. I think it is certainly possible to thoroughly and accurately assess a scope and then drive across the country and hunt elk like a total goober. YMMV. Do you believe a "top shooter" would take a sponsorship that made him lose over providing his own scope he can win with? Depends on how much the sponsorship is. As for competitions, surely they check and double check their zero prior to a course of fire? That could mitigate the vortex wandering zero. So you haven't done much competition shooting. Well, for starters, for PRS you may fire up to a couple hundred rounds over the course of two or three days. You will dial up and down dozens of times. There is sometimes a zero-range set-up the day before to confirm zero, but that's just about it. PRS rifles get knocked around more in one match than you do in ten years of hunting. They have to hold zero and track. No, they aren't making compromises on gear because of a "sponsorship" that really doesn't amount to much more than discounted or free optics. Lol hard-core competitions...guns getting "knocked around".... There's zero chance a competition guy doesn't check his zero if he dropped his 20lb gun during a stage. Plus this isn't a competition discussion, it's a call out thread based off of innuendo and assumptions because a guy actually evaluates and provides objective information that makes people butthurt..lol
Last edited by Jackson_Handy; 02/04/24.
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"The Illya guy" has been in the optics business for decades, both as an engineer and an executive in charge of various aspects from engineering to manufacturing, working for various companies. He's also a very avid shooter, who knows scopes both inside and outside, in the field. Thatâs not my impression frankly at all. I have watched several videos of his and discussed some things via PM. The attitude was very ego like. And actually not based in actual shooting and field use. Like everything including things you, yes you say. Verify for yourself, isnât that why we come here? To learn and be better. Jordan, Do you actually think form is moving a scope to 20 different rifles? And even if he did each one would need 5000 rounds each put through it. He also never discusses the context of needing to shoot that much. I agree much of forms experience matches yours and mine too actually. For example I am not a vortex guy either and only think their Japanese stuff passes muster. But that is the key to forms forum following. He says things lots of people agree with and inserts his own motives to that spin. Those motives may not be what people think they are, nor is his level of experience and knowledge but may be just recycling forum bs and group think Forums like this are notorious for group think and pack mentality.
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"The Illya guy" has been in the optics business for decades, both as an engineer and an executive in charge of various aspects from engineering to manufacturing, working for various companies. He's also a very avid shooter, who knows scopes both inside and outside, in the field. Thatâs not my impression frankly at all. I have watched several videos of his and discussed some things via PM. The attitude was very ego like. And actually not based in actual shooting and field use. Like everything including things you, yes you say. Verify for yourself, isnât that why we come here? To learn and be better. Jordan, Do you actually think form is moving a scope to 20 different rifles? And even if he did each one would need 5000 rounds each put through it. He also never discusses the context of needing to shoot that much. I agree much of forms experience matches yours and mine too actually. For example I am not a vortex guy either and only think their Japanese stuff passes muster. But that is the key to forms forum following. He says things lots of people agree with and inserts his own motives to that spin. Those motives may not be what people think they are, nor is his level of experience and knowledge but may be just recycling forum bs and group think Forums like this are notorious for group think and pack mentality. You are the galactic dumb f uck that STILL can't comprehend he said THE SCOPE had "x" amount of rounds on it.
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People don't like Form because he is objective and he doesn't care about yer feelers, just the facts.
The Illya guy is just projecting. Hate to break it too you, but an agenda is an agenda, and both have one. If Vortex scope sucked half as bad and were half as fragile as he says, they wouldn't be on the rifles of top shooters in high numbers. It is what it is, but anyone saying 100% of X scopes are good or 100% are bad is full of it and has an agenda. Whether said agenda is based on money or feelings doesn't really matter If the âtop shootersâ are getting sponsoredâŚ. The same criticism of Form (paid shill?) applies to any of the Vortex freaks. As Jordan said, Formâs scope testing aligns with my personal experiences, so Iâm inclined to believe his advice. I think it is certainly possible to thoroughly and accurately assess a scope and then drive across the country and hunt elk like a total goober. YMMV. Do you believe a "top shooter" would take a sponsorship that made him lose over providing his own scope he can win with? Depends on how much the sponsorship is. As for competitions, surely they check and double check their zero prior to a course of fire? That could mitigate the vortex wandering zero. So you haven't done much competition shooting. Well, for starters, for PRS you may fire up to a couple hundred rounds over the course of two or three days. You will dial up and down dozens of times. There is sometimes a zero-range set-up the day before to confirm zero, but that's just about it. PRS rifles get knocked around more in one match than you do in ten years of hunting. They have to hold zero and track. No, they aren't making compromises on gear because of a "sponsorship" that really doesn't amount to much more than discounted or free optics. Lol hard-core competitions...guns getting "knocked around".... There's zero chance a competition guy doesn't check his zero if he dropped his 20lb gun during a stage. Plus this isn't a competition discussion, it's a call out thread based off of innuendo and assumptions because a guy actually evaluates and provides objective information that makes people butthurt..lol So you're absolutely clueless. No, you don't get to stop the match to go check your gun. When your number is up, you shoot or take a zero. There usually is no zeroing range after the match starts because PRS matches take a lot of property and a lot of moving parts to fit all the stages in. If you have zero experience about a subject, you should bow out rather than prove your ignorance.
Last edited by drop_point; 02/04/24.
"Full time night woman? I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever balled for beads."
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People don't like Form because he is objective and he doesn't care about yer feelers, just the facts.
The Illya guy is just projecting. Hate to break it too you, but an agenda is an agenda, and both have one. If Vortex scope sucked half as bad and were half as fragile as he says, they wouldn't be on the rifles of top shooters in high numbers. It is what it is, but anyone saying 100% of X scopes are good or 100% are bad is full of it and has an agenda. Whether said agenda is based on money or feelings doesn't really matter If the âtop shootersâ are getting sponsoredâŚ. The same criticism of Form (paid shill?) applies to any of the Vortex freaks. As Jordan said, Formâs scope testing aligns with my personal experiences, so Iâm inclined to believe his advice. I think it is certainly possible to thoroughly and accurately assess a scope and then drive across the country and hunt elk like a total goober. YMMV. Do you believe a "top shooter" would take a sponsorship that made him lose over providing his own scope he can win with? Depends on how much the sponsorship is. As for competitions, surely they check and double check their zero prior to a course of fire? That could mitigate the vortex wandering zero. So you haven't done much competition shooting. Well, for starters, for PRS you may fire up to a couple hundred rounds over the course of two or three days. You will dial up and down dozens of times. There is sometimes a zero-range set-up the day before to confirm zero, but that's just about it. PRS rifles get knocked around more in one match than you do in ten years of hunting. They have to hold zero and track. No, they aren't making compromises on gear because of a "sponsorship" that really doesn't amount to much more than discounted or free optics. Lol hard-core competitions...guns getting "knocked around".... There's zero chance a competition guy doesn't check his zero if he dropped his 20lb gun during a stage. Plus this isn't a competition discussion, it's a call out thread based off of innuendo and assumptions because a guy actually evaluates and provides objective information that makes people butthurt..lol So you're absolutely clueless. No, you don't get to stop the match to go check your gun. If you have zero experience about a subject, you should bow out rather than prove your ignorance. Well the discussion isn't about competitions. Retards that larp on the weekends try desperately to steer every discussion towards their larping, however that's not what the thread is about. The thread is a call out thread because butthurt b itches don't like someone. Nobody cares about your love of competitions and vortex.
Last edited by Jackson_Handy; 02/04/24.
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Well the discussion isn't about competitions. Retards that larp on the weekends try desperately to steer every discussion towards their larping, however that's not what the thread is about. The thread is a call out thread because butthurt b itches don't like someone.
Nobody cares about your love of competitions and vortex. I made no claim about love of competition or of Vortex. I said you've got no idea. You're a [bleep] idiot. People are successful with certain brands in competition. You claimed it was because they are paid to use it, get to baby the gear, and get to re-zero. You have no clue about scopes, no clue about competition, or reality. You made claims you can't back up. Maybe you should ask yourself how so many people can be successful with the gear you don't like, but you're too stupid to figure out.
Last edited by drop_point; 02/04/24.
"Full time night woman? I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever balled for beads."
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People are successful with certain brands in competition. You claimed it was because they are paid to use it, get to baby the gear, and get to re-zero. . That's correct. But again, this discussion has zero to do with competitions, no matter how desperately you want it to be. Vortex sucks. Now go cry about it..
Last edited by Jackson_Handy; 02/04/24.
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People are successful with certain brands in competition. You claimed it was because they are paid to use it, get to baby the gear, and get to re-zero. . That's correct. But again, this discussion has zero to do with competitions, no matter how desperately you want it to be. Vortex sucks. Now go cry about it.. Show me on the doll where you were hurt by people addressing the point YOU made. You see, you're a dumbass, and I'll post whatever I damn well please, boy.
Last edited by drop_point; 02/04/24.
"Full time night woman? I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever balled for beads."
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People are successful with certain brands in competition. You claimed it was because they are paid to use it, get to baby the gear, and get to re-zero. . That's correct. But again, this discussion has zero to do with competitions, no matter how desperately you want it to be. Vortex sucks. Now go cry about it.. Jacksonhandjob. Solid entry to the 24hr Dumbfuqk Hall of Fame đ
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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"The Illya guy" has been in the optics business for decades, both as an engineer and an executive in charge of various aspects from engineering to manufacturing, working for various companies. He's also a very avid shooter, who knows scopes both inside and outside, in the field. +1000
"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated." Thomas Paine
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People are successful with certain brands in competition. You claimed it was because they are paid to use it, get to baby the gear, and get to re-zero. . That's correct. But again, this discussion has zero to do with competitions, no matter how desperately you want it to be. Vortex sucks. Now go cry about it.. Jacksonhandjob. Solid entry to the 24hr Dumbfuqk Hall of Fame đ Here comes the larping brigade...
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People are successful with certain brands in competition. You claimed it was because they are paid to use it, get to baby the gear, and get to re-zero. . That's correct. But again, this discussion has zero to do with competitions, no matter how desperately you want it to be. Vortex sucks. Now go cry about it.. Show me on the doll where you were hurt by people addressing the point YOU made. You see, you're a dumbass, and I'll post whatever I damn well please, boy. Awwww somebody got their feelers hurt. Yes it's just reality, nobody cares about your competitions or vortex. Such outrage over games. Go cry more.
Last edited by Jackson_Handy; 02/04/24.
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People are successful with certain brands in competition. You claimed it was because they are paid to use it, get to baby the gear, and get to re-zero. . That's correct. But again, this discussion has zero to do with competitions, no matter how desperately you want it to be. Vortex sucks. Now go cry about it.. Show me on the doll where you were hurt by people addressing the point YOU made. You see, you're a dumbass, and I'll post whatever I damn well please, boy. Awwww somebody got their feelers hurt. Yes it's just reality, nobody cares about your competitions or vortex. Such outrage over games. Go cry more. Not at all, just here to watch you prove to the world how stupid you are. Some advice for you: when you find yourself trapped in a hole, stop digging.
"Full time night woman? I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever balled for beads."
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People are successful with certain brands in competition. You claimed it was because they are paid to use it, get to baby the gear, and get to re-zero. . That's correct. But again, this discussion has zero to do with competitions, no matter how desperately you want it to be. Vortex sucks. Now go cry about it.. Jacksonhandjob. Solid entry to the 24hr Dumbfuqk Hall of Fame đ Here comes the larping brigade... Like you do every day being on this forum. You don't shoot, you don't hunt, you just run your cock-holster.
"Full time night woman? I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever balled for beads."
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