One of life’s important skills these days is being able to separate the wheat from the chaff on the internet. If you can’t you’re gonna get suckered.
The dumbest animal on earth has to be the American mindless sheep. They’ll believe a guy that cant sell more than 50 AR’s a year during the greatest gun buying period in history. Believe a guy that buys a restaurant for $500k in 90’s money, complete with roaches. But they won’t believe someone who is willing to give them an all expense paid trip, complete with multiple new, scopes(worth over a grand each), if they pass a simple test. clown world.
Watched portions of a few of those PRS matches a couple pages back. Having never been to a PRS match, it doesn't look like as much fun as I had pictured in my mind. Too much hopping around for my taste. I suppose they're trying to simulate more than just hunting type shooting. My experience hunting wide open country almost exclusively is that you take a position that allows you to room for follow-up shots on single targets (big game or called varmints), or you take a position that allows you to shoot extended periods at multiple targets from one spot (gophers/prairie-dogs).
I suppose not much different than any other disciplines, there will be folks who favor one over the other. I really enjoy shooting skeet, 5-stand, and sporting clays. I won't shoot trap. I worked @ the local trap club for 2 or 3 summers from 13-15 and basically surmised that "serious" trap shooters were almost all prissy A-Holes.
As to the OP, none of us will really know who's paid to do what on a given forum just by rumor and innuendo. I don't really find it all that difficult to discern bias pro/con from posters either, most fit a few fairly broad categories:
1. Sponsored by or has a business relationship with a manufacturer.
2. Has a personal "axe" to grind with a given manufacturer
3. Reads too much and shoots too little
4. Is on their own dime and lays out their results. Some do this with strong opinions regarding their perception of the results, some lay out their results with little to no opinion added
I can walk on water.......................but I do stagger a bit on alcohol.
What all this bickering does is make one not believe what ANYBODY says about the optical stuff on here. After a few pages of shock value it just gets boring to us outsiders.
What all this bickering does is make one not believe what ANYBODY says about the optical stuff on here. After a few pages of shock value it just gets boring to us outsiders.
You don’t believe all you read about here about Leupold scopes?
Why not just trust yourself and your experience? Works for me..
If I did that, I wouldn't know what junk Leupold scopes are, or that I'd be better off if the safety locked down the bolt on all my rifles.
Well, at least you're half right. Pro tip: when EVERY bolt action rifle (save one, who also went bankrupt, has an entire cottage industry to "improve" the marque) safeties lock the bolt and yours doesn't , you might want to reconside, although I did see that Meateater guy use a rubber band (classy) to lock the bolt on his 700 once..
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
What all this bickering does is make one not believe what ANYBODY says about the optical stuff on here. After a few pages of shock value it just gets boring to us outsiders.
Wasn't this the guy that drove 40 hours to Montana to hunt elk, almost slid off a cliff a few times. JUMPED off one cliff into a tree 50 or 60 feet down and kept jumping into lower trees for about 600 feet to the bottom?
T_Inman posted the link recently. It's a good read but very, very far fetched.
The deer hunter does not notice the mountains
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve" - Isoroku Yamamoto
There sure are a lot of America haters that want to live here...
People don't like Form because he is objective and he doesn't care about yer feelers, just the facts.
The Illya guy is just projecting.
Hate to break it too you, but an agenda is an agenda, and both have one.
If Vortex scope sucked half as bad and were half as fragile as he says, they wouldn't be on the rifles of top shooters in high numbers.
It is what it is, but anyone saying 100% of X scopes are good or 100% are bad is full of it and has an agenda. Whether said agenda is based on money or feelings doesn't really matter
If the “top shooters” are getting sponsored….
The same criticism of Form (paid shill?) applies to any of the Vortex freaks.
As Jordan said, Form’s scope testing aligns with my personal experiences, so I’m inclined to believe his advice.
I think it is certainly possible to thoroughly and accurately assess a scope and then drive across the country and hunt elk like a total goober. YMMV.
Do you believe a "top shooter" would take a sponsorship that made him lose over providing his own scope he can win with?
I think a top shooter might have to send scopes back for defects or repairs often and not disclose it to the public.
Won't stay a top shooter very long if your scope won't track or hold zero.
"Full time night woman? I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever balled for beads."
We don't understand how you can type one-handed so well. Must be all the handy practice. You're a joke.
You literally have not made a post in this thread that was on topic. Your posts in this thread are primarily trying to convince people that competitions are relevant (because you like them). Ok.
Now do you or anyone else have evidence Form is paid by optic companies?
The answer is no.
Wrong again. I responded to a post belly made, then you responded. Don't like it, cry big alligator tears there, handy-giver.
Last edited by drop_point; 02/05/24.
"Full time night woman? I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever balled for beads."
We don't understand how you can type one-handed so well. Must be all the handy practice. You're a joke.
You literally have not made a post in this thread that was on topic. Your posts in this thread are primarily trying to convince people that competitions are relevant (because you like them). Ok.
Now do you or anyone else have evidence Form is paid by optic companies?
The answer is no.
Wrong again. I responded to a post belly made, then you responded. Don't like it, cry big alligator tears there, handy-giver.
You threw a temper tantrum when I dare poke fun at yer box blind. Life must be hard for you being such a soft b itch.
This thread was over about competitions....yet here you b itch...
FWIW, I trust my own experience but I also enjoy learning from others. It just so happens that the most scope problems Ive had have been from cheap Vortex, Leupolds, and Swaros, so I don’t use them anymore. Those also happen to be Forms most common whipping boys. I listen to what Form says when it makes logical sense (like larger shot groups) and I tune out other times when it doesn’t (like never cleaning a barrel). I listen, but I don’t take everything as gospel. If anything, he brought the importance of zero retention to light as something the consumer should demand and I think scopes are or will be built better as a result.
As for Illya, I don’t place much stock in many of his thoughts because he doesn’t hunt, and that’s all I care about. And he’s on the Vortex take. And he seems weird.
One of life’s important skills these days is being able to separate the wheat from the chaff on the internet. If you can’t you’re gonna get suckered.
How do you know Ilya doesn't hunt?
As I posted previously on this thread, I first met him in 2004, when he had not only hunted varmints for a while, but was also starting to hunt big game. This was when he was working as an optical engineer for a company in California. Which may be why he eventually got a job with a company in Texas, where it's obviously easier to hunt bigger game.
He doesn't get to hunt as much as he wants, partly because he gets paid a lot to work for optical companies--and NOT as a "paid shill" but as an engineer and engineer supervisor. As I mentioned earlier, he's worked for various optics companies, so doesn't have any "agenda" for promoting one company.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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