Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska Even Big Bears are scared of tourists

If in doubt- charge! Did that to a big black that was right in front of my cabin door when I was coming back from a boat check in the evening. I don't do that unarmed anymore.

Pretty funny actually - he bolted about 30 feet, then looked at me like, "What the hell is WRONG with you?"

Too bad someone 200 yards downwind failed to squirt some condiments in the air so they could add it to the list of lives saved with bear spray...

Ever wonder how good bear spray really is?



https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2P5O2BReaR/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

locals are smart, tourists are not. On both sides

It worked great for flushing her partner out of hiding.

Question is, was the Bear serious? Bluff charge?

You never know until you know.

That said if you do nothing at all, the bear has the upper hand IMHO. If you at least try to "scare" the bear you can turn them sometimes.

Bear spray. I don't waste the room and weight. I'd carry more bullets for that weight.

I have my own parameters and they are pretty close IE the bear can get pretty close while I try to disuade them before shooting. The one that ripped my tent fly off this past fall almost managed to get into the tent before a bit of speaking to it got it to stop, but had it made it into the tent instead of just the claws getting through the tent material it would not have been time for spray.
Also had one woofing and popping about 3 feet from the tent, IE Just out side the tent. That one would also have gotten shot if it made it into the tent. Thankfully a bit of speaking to it also convinced it that it wasn't something to risk. Even though both would have gotten some pretty good licks in had they continued and might have outright won the battle even.

The top one was not a serious charge IMHO. Just a y'all get out of here kind of thing. Then again you don't know until you know.

The bear spray one was a curious bear doing nothing but being a bear.

Became friends with a guy up there who made his living guiding...Mt Goats, Sheep, Moose, Bear. He said he had to learn how they react, and to get his education would go amongst them....but with a rifle. He said most times they would turn early....other times you just knew they were more serious about the mission. He said he eventually leaned what he needed and quit pissing with them before he made a mistake. Mentioned that them coming when they knew you were there vs when you surprised them close was two different situations.

Actually the question is inconsequential, the bear was not phased by the spray, yet many people put their faith in it…

I would think that question is directed at the actual bluff charge not the bear standing there. Its gotta be a case by case basis. Spray never hit the other bear that was just being a bear and standing there. On an adrenalin bear I have zero faith.

Heck I even am not 100% faith in my 458 because you have to have time to use it, hit right etc... But I sure have never carried spray and never will. If I need to warn I can fire a shot. Spray is just one more thing to carry. Another mindset to think of. And to have to deal with if you inhale it when you least need to due to wind etc.... I can tell you for a fact that it seems that in bear country the wind is never doing what you need it to and it will change shortly on top of it.

As Rost mentioned, the question was related to the encounter on the water.

He also mentioned other clues that indicated a bluff charge....head position, ear position, how soon they start to angle off. Just going by his experience. Been years since I talked with him, but at that time he had 32 Bear kills that he guided. Some of which he had to help with the ending.

This one didn't look too scared.

When I bow hunt in bear country, I always have this on my back, and that bear in the video below would have been cold stone dead way before he got that close to me.

3" High Shock Federal Express is a great way to stop a bear in it's tracks.

Not that it matters in bear charge...but only two arrows?

Cntrmass: Instead of taking the time to "charge" that Bear I would have climbed that tree!
Oh.... wait there were no trees available.
And I am NOT certain that photographer was a "tourist".
Thankfully he was not kill't, whoever he was.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

screw that if a bear charges me and i hopefully have a gun with which i do 99% of the time i will be shooting to kill the bear hopefully. and as the Federal warden said to me just make sure you spray that bear before i get there , so things will go a heck of a lot easier for both of us. wardens are sick of all this wolf and bear protection crap too.

I'm pretty confident that's Bruin Bay, which is now attracting lots of tourist attention since the NPS hasn't yet turned it into yet another Jellystone Yogi Bear park site. Immediately after some yahoo gets chewed up there after walking up to the bears, the NPS will have to start manning the river mouth to keep stupid people from doing stupid things.

I dunno- early in the vid, at a distance, the bear had its ears down, and that run seemed pretty determined. When it slowed, then the ears went up I knew it had reconsidered - if it was serious to begin with. Which I think early on it was. Also there is the vision factor. And the human voices. A short-range bear might not have that luxury of time to reconsideration that this one did.

Passivity or retreat in that situation on the part of the anglers was a no-go. Period. They done right. Yelling, making themselves bigger, showing aggression was perfect.

I've never believed a "warning shot" has any deterence whatsoever, unless gravel or something sprays the bear. It's just a loud noise. Better to yell and save the bullet for need... you might not have time to chamber another one.

I think where the ears went up is about where I'd have been shooting, maybe a tad sooner. On a black bear doing that there would have been flying lead when it cleared the water.

LOL

I just thought it was funny he yelled in shear terror and chased after it!!!

To me its a shame so many bears are shot so quickly and so often. BIL did the same years ago. Bear was just being a bear. But people are so scared of them if they do anything like a bear. Look. Stand up. Huff. Pop teeth. Bluff charge.

I'm not saying I would not have been ready for either bear but I would not have even come close to shooting either of those bears.

As I noted even the bear tearing my tent fly off last fall, just did not know and once he did it was all over with except him looking around like WTF.

OTOH I guess in the end all these folks so quick to shoot, it is just another dead bear I suppose.

If you mess with the Bull, you get the horns.

Well there is a reason for the fear, especially if you read about the forensics reports after they find someone that has been eaten by a bear.

It is a rather slow, excruciating, and grewsome death.

Having Bow hunting bears for many years, I don't trust them, and when they are charging, how are you supposed to know that they are bluffing, personally I am not a mind reader.

Here is what you look like after being eaten my a bear. Notice how his insides are licked clean?

I am only going to post the link and not the picture, so you can choose to open it or not. It's not pretty!

I would rather be eaten by a shark than a bear, you die much faster in a shark attack.

https://imgur.com/pQ1lNEc

One does not need to be a mind reader to understand a bear, or any other animal or humans intentions as they telegraph it by body language and posturing very well if you know what you are looking at.
Cowboys do it with horses and astute dog and cat owners do it as well. Cops learn it quickly too. Body language is pretty universal

I do like being really close to bears of all kinds...behind bars at the Zoo! lol I don't envy you guys that live amongst them, even our Black bears give me the Heebie jeebies! In all honesty, I feel the same way when I have to go out in the City after Midnight with a pistol in my waistband...its all business, no goofing off!

I feel a lot safer around big bears as they are honest so you can safely read their intentions
Humans can be deceiving and calculating while appearing to be friendly

458Win I agree with your assessment, however.

The potential end result of misinterpretation, can be the last mistake you make.

One time when I was hunting black bears, I misinterpreted a particular bear's intentions while bow hunting. The bear came into my bait and was milling around the base of the tree I had set up a small wood platform I built by myself, when I was young and agile.

So I am watching the bear and saying to myself, "Well he is just curious, and he will head to the bait" Right after I thought that and withing a few seconds he motored up the tree, I was about 18 feet up and took a swipe at my boot.

I threw my bow out of my hands and shot him in the head at a distance of about a foot away with my shotgun that I had hanging on the tree.

Also where I bow hunt elk there are a lot of Grizz, it is very thick bush and in many cases you can not see deeper into the bush more that a few feet. If a bear is coming at you out of the bush, your reaction time is only a few seconds.

I can understand your assessment if a bear is walking towards you in an open area like the one on the beach, where you have excellent visibility and a little time to assess. But in thick bush situations, I would rather be safe than sorry.

Full disclosure. The time I was attacked in the tree, has been the only time I have been in that type of situation. When I am hunting in Grizz country, if I see very fresh sign, I typically head out. Don't want any confrontations with a Grizz and do not want to kill one needlessly.

When most bears see or smell a human, they turn tail and run, but not in every case. This is Jeremy Evans story, can't imaging walking for hours with my eyeball out of its socket and resting on my cheek. Jeremy was VERY LUCKY, as well as very tough.

I have bow hunted in the same vicinity where this happened to him. Reaction time 1.5 seconds, maybe 3.

Agree totally on this.

Six of one, half dozen the other IMHO. The main difference is that the DLP regs are much more forgiving when killing aggressive bears, and that's only if their season is closed in that locale. I buy and carry a locking tag annually just as my Murphy's Law insurance policy, because if any bear charges me, I'm not giving him the benefit of the possibility of a bluff just like I would treat a man who pulls a gun out on me. I'm going to try to shoot him down if I can, because the law affords me that right, and I simply can't trust him. I have a family to take care of.

458 Win is correct.

BTDT. No time for terror . Things get slow and with excellent clarity!

If it works, it works. Binoculars lack penetration.... I didn't have a 9mm.........

Phil,
What’s your take on the bear’s actions in the first video?

Binocs lack penetration but they do run a bear off if you hit it in the face with them. I've heard the story around our guys.

And while I cannot confirm the 9mm on a brown bear it kills black bears dead. DRT. And while its not my brown bear choice, I never feel bad having one around if thats what I happen to have.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Just curious, what did he do that was Stupid?

If you watched the interview, he just came across a mother Grizz with her cubs?

Alberta put a moratorium on Grizz Hunting years ago, there are way too many now, in my opinion. People getting attacked and killed way too often now.

Remarkable how much damage a little sow can do, I say he was very lucky, lucky for surviving the attack. I have been to the lodge he ended up at.

I myself am reluctant to just shoot a bear for "being a bear", they have to make me "believe" they are out to eat me very slow, licking my guts out, lol. That's a bad way to go!

Jeremy WAS quite blessed to have survived. I wasn’t directing my statement at him specifically. I did not watch that video. Reading/watching the other accounts begs the question: why would any sane person provoke or tempt the possibility of a Bear encounter? Especially the photographer posting up on a Bear that could kill him. I would hate to have a surprise encounter with such an animal & then wind up being forced to kill it when they are doing what God created them to do.

It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye ....

This video always makes me think that someone experiencing this would change their minds pretty quick about whether or not they’d want to shoot a bear.
I’m sure these two were wishing they had a gun.

Just my opinion, but I also think they handled it wrong and got lucky. The bear was testing/pressuring them but always ready to take an escape route. Being unarmed, I think they should have been a lot more aggressive, stand their ground and make that bear take those escape routes when it was unsure. It worked out ok for them but not the time to act like potential prey. I think if one of them would have tripped and fallen or separated and ran, it could have been different.

Whenever I’m with my wife or someone else that’s not comfortable in the bush and they’re unarmed, I always remind them that if a bear situation happens; don’t scream, don’t run, and don’t touch me because whatever I have to do I have to get it right.


My brother and friend had a similar experience hiking in northern BC mountains with a group(6-8) of young teenage boys. The boys were ahead on the trail and a black bear started circling around them darting in and out pressuring them trying to separate them. My brother and friend were running hard up the trail and screaming at them to stay together. Being hit with backpacks finally made the bear change its mind and back off for awhile but still dogged them for the rest of the day. Didn’t have rifles so had no choice but to turn around and hike all the way back out again on the same day instead of putting freaked out boys into tents overnight.

Not carrying guns around bears is just stupid.

Yup!

Agreed. Completely.

But in mod7rem's video above, it would be really satisfying to see that bear get a good spray in the face. Supposedly, spray is perfect for a curious, testy bear, and at that range, you can't possibly miss. There are clearly two guys there, so one spraying with the other ready to shoot would be ideal. Best of all, you don't have a carcass to dress, hide and meat to haul out, and gutpile left next to a trail drawing in more potential problem bears for others to have to deal with. And maybe that bear would learn to leave people alone.

Admittedly, though, he might also develop a bad attitude toward people, like some dogs develop toward porcupines after getting quilled.

I tend to hunt alone, and finally started to bring a can of spray to hang in the cook tent. I hope never to need it, and if alone, would probably just shoot a troublesome bear, especially if I don't have to put him on my back. Maybe I'm just an a$$hole, but spraying a testy one down just seems satisfying.

LOL. You use what you want to.
The day I wanted spray to work the wind would be wrong. The range wrong. The can wouldn't work . ETc....

IIRC Phil carries Spray. Its just one extra thing I don't want.

Just 2 cents from someone who has been sprayed more times than wanted. There is a reason LE transitioned to the Taser. It's a better tool in the legal use of force continuum. I've seen people cough, gag and puke and I've seen people smile, unaffected after being doused with pepper. Even those who cough and gag can fight through it with appropriate adrenaline. I have zero confidence in pepper spray against any bear. It's a roll of the dice. Once pepper spray becomes airborne, it's also non-discriminatory.

very true , i would put it one step more any place including a town or city the 2 legged ones can be bad too.

Hmmm..........could be fun........

Tasers have been effective in SE to tase bears away from hatchery areas to avoid confrontation with fish techs doing their work. F&G has used tasers to immobilize moose to free them when tangled in things like swingsets and wire fences.

Yup! Pretty doggone easy to carry (and conceal if necessary) a compact handgun with bear-thumping ammo. A lot of folks don't train to react quickly and shoot accurately though.



Regards, Guy

Guy. Couple things. You may or may not agree.

Bear ammo. Generally speaking it doesn't take what folks think it takes. IE they use powerful ammo they cannot control

Read the Kenai bear attack in the NRA mag. Guy went from not ever carrying a gun to a PD 329 caring 300 grain bear ammo. IMHO he is in the same boat almost as he was. He can't use that gun. Can't control it.. Will be scared of it. Won't shoot it. Will have to wait for bear to have contact with him and then pull and use it... and hope the first shot works because he may loose that gun in recoil easily.

Also training. One needs to shoot a lot. Practice a lot. BUT the part of practice is ignored is the mental part.

While I rarely shoot as much as I used to, I continually practice accessing the gun and running controls on guns. Rather than just shoot.

I think if you produce muscle memory to get the gun working, the rest will come when the adrenalin is up. Assuming again you are a gun person. We know you are a gun person. I know I"m a wanna be gun person.

9mm 147 killed the last handgun bear I had to shoot.... I was kind of wishing I had my 10 or the 329 with reduced Keith loads... but it was what was handy.

Tasing bears seems risky to me unless some type of longer "Bear probes" are used. I'll bet there is a 12 ga. aimed in by a backup officer when the Taser is employed just in case. Tasers only work when both probes bury into flesh to make good contact. Leather jackets, fur coats and loose clothing can prevent good contact. Taser probes spread out fast beyond 15'. If one probe misses the jig is up. Not much time to transition within 15' from iron jaws.

Standard handgun course of fire at the range includes a double tap center mass or double center then one to the head to stop a threat. It takes many trips to the range and many rounds down range to develop good muscle memory. Accurately shooting a 50 round course with double and triple taps using a large hand cannon should qualify as extreme sport event. Shooting multiple hand cannon courses within a couple hours at the range would be superhuman. However, the same course or multiple courses using a 10mm or 45acp is very doable and actually enjoyable. Better training, better response under stress.

When I was in Alaska I asked several locals what they carried for bear protection and they all said, "a 12 gauge with slugs".......I then asked if they ever actually shot one and the reply was all "no". I told them that based on my experience tracking whitetails that were shot with slugs they might be betting on the wrong team.
Somebody will be along any minute to bawl and argue about this........

Rost:
This article?

https://www.americanhunter.org/content/lessons-learned-from-a-grizzly-bear-attack-on-the-kenai/

Yes. Did I mis state something?

Re the Tasered hatchery bears.

If I remember the article I read correctly, The Tasers were used to condition bears to avoidance of a certain light, which was used henceforth to prevent close contact/conflict between bears and personal. Especially at night. It only took once or twice for the Tasered bears to give way to someone with the light. These are "resident" bears of course. Newcomers have to be "trained".

Bears are smart, and quickly adapt to "rules", as evidenced by the many "bear viewing" sites around Alaska, where they adapt their behaviour to the presence of many humans and other bears, mostly without conflict. I can't recall any maulings at such sites. Wife and I visited Brooks River Falls last summer, unfortunately before the late-arriving run got there. I was amazed at those bears' patience and persistence.

Well, almost always. This chaser bear was an jerk. If it saw another bear chase or catch a fish, it (probably he) immediately went over and ran the other one off, and took over that spot. Until the next bear had "fish on". Much like certain humans dipnetting salmon......

You should contact the Alaska State Troopers, the major Municiple Departments and Federal Game LEO's in Alaska to notify them that you have visited Alaska and spoke with several locals. Tell them your expert opinion from anecdotal conversations and your whitetail wounding experience with 12 gauge slugs render them unwise for bear protection. These departments have been doing it all wrong.

Carrying .357, .22 Mag , .44 Mag handguns have always worked for me, as have 20 nd 12 shotguns and rifles of various calibers.

Of course, I've never had to actually use any of them in my 55 years in Alaska, but I've time yet....

Archie Bunker beat me by 10 minutes......... Alaska and Canadian LEO and ADFG agencies certainly have the aggregate amount of experience in this arena, and they almost universally use shotguns with the heaviest slugs. I just bought up another 75 rounds of Black Magic slugs the other day just because I think another ammo crisis will be here within a year.

Black Magic Magnum- 600 grains of hardened rifled slug leaving the barrel at 1500 fps. I like those odds.

I cringe when the boyfriend brings his girlfriend to the counter to look at 454 Casulls and 460 S&W for bear protection. They can barely fit their hands around the grip and shake while trying to sight down the barrel. Trying to guide them to something more manageable without offending the BF is challenging. Sometimes I just hand them something manageable so they can just compare. That usually works because they say "Oh, that feels better". They're better off with a 9mm they can handle than a huge cannon they don't even want to pick up again after shooting it the first time.

when guys brag about large hand cannon handguns i did a handgun qualifier target that we were trained by a BATF tester type team ,guy next to me had a 50 desert eagle ,i used a 9mm Berretta he brag plenty how accurate that dang big handgun was , but when we got finished with those targets i had the much higher score of the day . bigger is not always better .

Nope. Just looked for the article and found that one. Didn’t remember that incident from 2012.

Only thing for sure about encounter's with wild animals is that nothing is for sure!

Shotguns with Brennekes can work, but I’ve also seen some strangely inconsistent results from them. A .375, .338, or .458 sort of option is much more reliable. FWIW, a lot of folks working for the troopers or ADG&G are using rifles for their bear needs.

Yeah, very few long guns hurt me after shooting them. I'll shoot my lightweight 300 WinMag and lightweight 338 WinMag all day long. The 870 with those Black Magics can make me sore.

After they created the Palmer-Wasilla Management Area (no hunting with centerfire or rimfire cartridges), I figured for sure that the bears would get the message. I have bee hives, gardens, and livestock here (baby goats and sheep bleating) as well as a garbage trailer I don't haul to the dump until it gets full. It's a virtual bear smorgasbord. But Valley bears are pretty well trained to behave, unlike those spoiled and ornery Kenai bears. In 34 years, I've never had bear trouble here. But if I do, I have slugs ready to go. If I have to shoot one, I don't want to give it to the state.

Yuppers! In the photo, I'm shooting a 2.5" Model 19. When in "bear country" I usually load it with 180 gr Buffalo Bore ammo. That stuff is stout, but accurate and controllable. Phil Shoemaker told me I should give it a try, after I asked a couple of questions re his 147 gr 9mm bear kill.

Guy

When I lived in Idaho- hunting/scouting near Stanley, ID. , I walked up on a good size black bear. It initially ran off about 30-40 yards then started getting nosey- standing up- making unfriendly sounds etc. . Then went on.

I had just finished paying off some doctor bills and that thought was in my head.
Imagine the Doctor bills of those who survived attacks- 10's of thousands of dollars.

Shotguns do work. Not with cheap slugs and or most Walmart type slugs. Shotguns have to be fed the correct ammo. Beyond that most big rifles work with any ammo, but the right ammo is even better and smarter.

Handguns, the ammo is critical. It has to be able to penetrate CNS at the ranges it gets used at. Has to penetrate the skull or spinal cord. Beyond that you have to be able to shoot it well.

Another post mentions someone bragging on how well his 500 or whatever shot. I'm sure it did. He simply couldn't shoot it as well as the gun did.

Thats the point.. This is a minimum of 3 fold thing. Ammo has to work. You have to be as accurate as the gun is( obviously the gun has to be sighted in and accurate enough) And finally you have to mentally be in the game.

Of all those, the mental part is going to win it. Likely even with the smallest gun the mental will have the best odds.

Misses with a cannon are still misses.

I do carry a stout knife. I hope to never use the gun or knife. The knife may get replaced with the lightest 9mm as a backup to the rifle at some point for trailing wounded bears.

You never know about me. As you know...

A bunch of points in the narrative left me shaking my head... and not in a good way.

800 pound sows are all over the Kenai to start with...

Art, me agree also amigo. Author's license I suspect...
Don't get me started on the Kenai bears. Has been a major "schist" show by adfg for a half of a century. Also influence by the KNWR big time.

Yes, there are 800 pound sows on the Kenai. What few other people know is that the 3rd year sows (smaller) are (and have been) proven to be breeding here as well, adding to the population mega increase. BTW (I'm certain you already know this as well) the KNWR's DNA study failed to account for ANY of the 40 tagged sows (tagged by adf&g) in said study. Moral of the story (my opinionis yes) is keep your wits about you, learn the warning signs, practice good marksmanship, and to hell with the pepper spray.

down here in the lower 48 these liberals like to make a big deal about a bear shot ,so if you think someone may find out you shot a bear make sure you use pepper spray before the warden gets there ,probably a good ideal in Alaska too . the 3 - S`s works sometimes but seems everyone has a phone and to many things flying and taking pictures now days , so a small can of bear spray might save you some money and time with the law.

Or you could just do what that guy in CO did some decades ago. He killed the non-existant (in CO) grizzly that attacked him with a hand-held arrow. Tough way of doing things, to my mind.....

First, ya gotta find an animal that F&G says isn't there, then you have to get it to put you on the ground. Then you have to prove to F&G both of the above, but the carcass helped.

I remember reading one of the Huntington's books from either Sidney or Jimmy. Shadows of the Koyukuk or The Edge of Nowhere. The author wrote how the Athabascans hunted "The Big Animal" with only a sharpened brown bear leg bone strapped to the front end of a birch pole. I wonder if they set around the fire and argued over the length of the pole? :>)

Nope. No legal nor logical need for condiments for protection.

Federal Warden explained to me why , do as you want but i will do the smart way from now on in the lower 48 .

Heck ya!

AB, my tree stand spear might be a little more involved than the one depicted in Hunnington's tome.😉 The head is a modified, double- edged copy of the Clovis point found in New Mexico. CNC machined from 4041 chrome moly. It is attached to a ten foot copper plated steel ground rod that has had a milled joint placed into the shaft to accept it. The final eight feet is of 4041 cm tubing, which holds the main shaft via slight friction, with a stainless pin acting as a "stop" for when it is thrusted at a suspecting target. The complete spear weighs about 14 pounds. Being hollow-ground and razor sharp, penetration is easily assured!

Might have to bring it out this spring just for giggles. . . 😎

Yikes BH!

I'd have to wear a pair of them Astronaut britches for a sport like that.

I guess it DEPENDS what sort of guy you are!

I’ll run video! 😉

👍

I'll run video of Ironbender running video - from some little distance.

As put in one of L'Amour's books, "Some people are just determined to be an innocent bystander".

Once removed would at least give me a running start leaving a greased obstacle course behind for the bear..

This is turning into a party!

😀

Getting closer pard. Gonna pull it down, shake the dust off and hone the blade this morning, then invite Art to be bait monitor, las to video you videoing the event in a special, cleared ground blind at 50 yards. Sounds perfect. Perhaps you can reach Archer to write it up. For posterity purposes...

We'll need (purposely!) volunteer the "Mart-meister" in some fashion as well. I'll leave it up to you to figure that one out 😉