A year and a half ago I hunted buffalo in Namibia with a Christianson Arms 375 that jammed about 50 percent of the time. Seemed to do it only when cycling quickly. Didn’t seem to jam on the target range. Luckily for our group, it had no serious consequences.
My testing for feeding and extraction from my M70 .375 H&H showed the action needed some tweaking before I would ever take it on a DG hunt.
The same kind of testing of my 9.3x62mm proved the action was GTG. I simply could not get it to fail to feed or extract. That was a first for me.
I think the main problem for first-time users of magnum length actions is short-stroking the bolt when things get exciting. Especially after a lifetime of working medium and large action bolts.
It's you and the bullet, and all the rest is secondary.
A year and a half ago I hunted buffalo in Namibia with a Christianson Arms 375 that jammed about 50 percent of the time. Seemed to do it only when cycling quickly. Didn’t seem to jam on the target range. Luckily for our group, it had no serious consequences.
Wow. Thats the first ever issue a Christanson arms gun has ever had...... I would never own one personally but YMMV. Overpriced and the guys that I've talked to working there dont' really have a great grasp on anything but putting parts together.
Originally Posted by swiftshot
Many DG bolt rifles have issues feeding, especially the big bores.
Have to be careful with bullet shape and seating depth on those issues sometimes. I really wanted to shoot heavy hardcast big meplat in my 458 backup gun. Will not feed them. But it flawlessly feeds 350 barnes as fast as I can cycle the bolt.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
A year and a half ago I hunted buffalo in Namibia with a Christianson Arms 375 that jammed about 50 percent of the time. Seemed to do it only when cycling quickly. Didn’t seem to jam on the target range. Luckily for our group, it had no serious consequences.
Well built rifles don't do that.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
I'd bet the one behind the target animal was hit on the first shot.........
No doubt in my mind. And the first shot was not that great of a shot. The rifle jams is obvious. Glad the tracker got out of the way at the start or he would have been shot possibly too.
To my mind, once an animal is wounded, its almost safer if the client is never involved. But thats my take. And its actually the way I do it with big bears. Client gets to make a bad phone call if needed but is alive and I only have to worry about the bear, not the client and the bear.
Heck the client never had any idea that was a dumb shot to start with and he should have never shot to start with.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
I am sure that if you mess around with cast and bizarre reloads any rifle will have issues feeding.However if you stick to the various more popular rounds the rifle will have feeding issues if not worked on by a very experienced smith or if it was not given the proper attention at the factory if it is a factory rifle.That said thanks to the original poster who posted the video-it's a great video-very instructional or educational also.I think both the hunter and PH did a good job with the charge.
Definitely looked like 2 were hit on the first shot. Also like there was a miss at 55 sec, unless the shot went through and that's what kicked up dust.
Client also backed into the camera guy, can't tell if that caused him to short stroke the rifle causing issues or not? Camera has telephoto lens - IMO, I'd have told him, as they were coming up with a plan, to get the hell back and zoom rather than be another person I need to account for upon shooting.
Many of the feeding issues under stress are because the cartridge jumps the feed ramp and projectile hits the top outside of the bore and has a bolt override.
Seems like someone should be carrying a Beretta 1301 with some Brenneke slugs
Many of the feeding issues under stress are because the cartridge jumps the feed ramp and projectile hits the top outside of the bore and has a bolt override.
Seems like someone should be carrying a Beretta 1301 with some Brenneke slugs
Seriously. A shotgun on Cape buffalo? I wouldn't even risk a shotgun on a bear. Loco.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Definitely looked like 2 were hit on the first shot. Also like there was a miss at 55 sec, unless the shot went through and that's what kicked up dust.
Client also backed into the camera guy, can't tell if that caused him to short stroke the rifle causing issues or not? Camera has telephoto lens - IMO, I'd have told him, as they were coming up with a plan, to get the hell back and zoom rather than be another person I need to account for upon shooting.
Fairly sure due to angle and timing that had to be the pass through from the PH. I suspect he would have had solids in about then. and that broadside should have gone on through.
Be interesting to find out about the second buffalo.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Definitely looked like 2 were hit on the first shot. Also like there was a miss at 55 sec, unless the shot went through and that's what kicked up dust.
Client also backed into the camera guy, can't tell if that caused him to short stroke the rifle causing issues or not? Camera has telephoto lens - IMO, I'd have told him, as they were coming up with a plan, to get the hell back and zoom rather than be another person I need to account for upon shooting.
Fairly sure due to angle and timing that had to be the pass through from the PH. I suspect he would have had solids in about then. and that broadside should have gone on through.
Be interesting to find out about the second buffalo.
Never seem a video or real situation like that before. Watching that it does seem to me that on dangerous game, the best rifle is a double IF you take the time to learn to shoot it. I shoot SxS shotguns about 98% of the time and am used to looking for that second shot. matter of face I prefer them with double trigger's. have to get used to double trigger's but I've never had a SxS jam on me trying to chamber the second round and they simply come up and point at what your looking at if you practice with them. I though when that buff first came out of the bush at the hunter, he had the shot to stop it right there. Seems there was a couple other times he had a good chance with shooting like it was a flushing bird but he blew it. Of course, never having been in a situation like that, I'm not so sure exactly what I'd have done myself. But I can imagine being there, missing or not stopping the buff on the first shot and trying to chamber another round, jamming up the bolt action, not good! I'm pretty sure shooting at a buff at 50yds while it's all calm out is somewhat different than shooting at one at 12 feet under pressure! This makes me think if I was going after dangerous game that a lot of snap shooting at close range might be advisable!
Have to be careful with bullet shape and seating depth on those issues sometimes. I really wanted to shoot heavy hardcast big meplat in my 458 backup gun. Will not feed them. But it flawlessly feeds 350 barnes as fast as I can cycle the bolt.
Not at all uncommon IME that the newer FP solids many of us now favor, either hang up or fail to feed at all. Usually this is not a problem related to the CRF mechanism itself but rather the alignment of the bullet tip relative to the feed ramp. The most common cause I’ve found is a combination of the width of the feed ramp, the angle of the ramp at the corner, and/or the presentation of the cartridge by the bolt face before the extractor captures it, as the cartridge begins to exit the magazine box early in the feed cycle. That type of jam can be stubborn to clear rapidly, usually at the most inconvenient time.
Depending on the cause, especially if the action left the factory configured for a different cartridge than its current state, polishing the feed ramp, correcting the feed ramp width and/or angle will allow FP solids to feed without trouble. Sometimes modifying or replacing the follower and/or magazine spring may be necessary. If the problem of alignment is minor and follower construction allows it, modifying the shape of the follower surface might work.
Less frequently, but not unheard of, is the timing of the feeding cycle, due to the shape and/or width of the feed rails. This is especially sensitive as it’s very easy to ‘improve’ the feed rail configuration into dysfunction. Easy to do but difficult to correct except by an expert GS who understands CRF cycling very well. Attention to the shape, tension and extractor-to-rim fit are also important.
Many of the older CRF actions were not designed with blunt FP solids in mind and so some tweaking is necessary. I suspect a lot of the jams blamed on CRF or on the action are the result of operator error, inexperienced with rapid cycling of the bolt - especially H&H length ones - under stress. Practice, both dry fire and many practice loads, with a portion of full power loads, is the solution to the operator problem.
Although the double barrel DGRs are indeed faster for the 2nd shot, it takes a skilled and practiced operator, as Craig Boddington has pointed out, to find the 2nd trigger and extract that speed. Most of us are much more experienced with a bolt action rifle and investing the time and attention to improving cycling speed with a well tuned DGR pays off in the end.
BTW, our ingrained tendency to depend on 1-shot, DRT North American and PG experience serves us poorly in DG hunting. Shooting accurately, rapidly, and often rather than admiring our handiwork after the 1st shot is a good rule with DG.
In my case, I started out hunting elephants with a double DGR, enjoyed it and found it works. I realized however, that I was still more comfortable with a bolt DGR and after figuring out the quirks of the actions, fixing the issues mentioned and spending a lot of dry fire, practice load and full power load time on the range, have switched to bolts. Still a bit slower with the 2nd shot than the double, but fast enough for follow ups and, with either 3-down or 4-down magazine boxes beyond the chambered round, better suited to deal with that other elephant that decides to come out of the corner or move forward to protect its fallen herd mate. Such a bolt action DGR adds some subconscious peace of mind that the conclusion of the encounter will favor the shooter.
Those are just my conclusions based on a limited sample. YMMV.
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty of give me death! P. Henry
Have to be careful with bullet shape and seating depth on those issues sometimes. I really wanted to shoot heavy hardcast big meplat in my 458 backup gun. Will not feed them. But it flawlessly feeds 350 barnes as fast as I can cycle the bolt.
Not at all uncommon IME that the newer FP solids many of us now favor, either hang up or fail to feed at all. Usually this is not a problem related to the CRF mechanism itself but rather the alignment of the bullet tip relative to the feed ramp. The most common cause I’ve found is a combination of the width of the feed ramp, the angle of the ramp at the corner, and/or the presentation of the cartridge by the bolt face before the extractor captures it, as the cartridge begins to exit the magazine box early in the feed cycle. That type of jam can be stubborn to clear rapidly, usually at the most inconvenient time.
Depending on the cause, especially if the action left the factory configured for a different cartridge than its current state, polishing the feed ramp, correcting the feed ramp width and/or angle will allow FP solids to feed without trouble. Sometimes modifying or replacing the follower and/or magazine spring may be necessary. If the problem of alignment is minor and follower construction allows it, modifying the shape of the follower surface might work.
Less frequently, but not unheard of, is the timing of the feeding cycle, due to the shape and/or width of the feed rails. This is especially sensitive as it’s very easy to ‘improve’ the feed rail configuration into dysfunction. Easy to do but difficult to correct except by an expert GS who understands CRF cycling very well. Attention to the shape, tension and extractor-to-rim fit are also important.
Many of the older CRF actions were not designed with blunt FP solids in mind and so some tweaking is necessary. I suspect a lot of the jams blamed on CRF or on the action are the result of operator error, inexperienced with rapid cycling of the bolt - especially H&H length ones - under stress. Practice, both dry fire and many practice loads, with a portion of full power loads, is the solution to the operator problem.
Although the double barrel DGRs are indeed faster for the 2nd shot, it takes a skilled and practiced operator, as Craig Boddington has pointed out, to find the 2nd trigger and extract that speed. Most of us are much more experienced with a bolt action rifle and investing the time and attention to improving cycling speed with a well tuned DGR pays off in the end.
BTW, our ingrained tendency to depend on 1-shot, DRT North American and PG experience serves us poorly in DG hunting. Shooting accurately, rapidly, and often rather than admiring our handiwork after the 1st shot is a good rule with DG.
In my case, I started out hunting elephants with a double DGR, enjoyed it and found it works. I realized however, that I was still more comfortable with a bolt DGR and after figuring out the quirks of the actions, fixing the issues mentioned and spending a lot of dry fire, practice load and full power load time on the range, have switched to bolts. Still a bit slower with the 2nd shot than the double, but fast enough for follow ups and, with either 3-down or 4-down magazine boxes beyond the chambered round, better suited to deal with that other elephant that decides to come out of the corner or move forward to protect its fallen herd mate. Such a bolt action DGR adds some subconscious peace of mind that the conclusion of the encounter will favor the shooter.
Those are just my conclusions based on a limited sample. YMMV.
I agree with your conclusions. But for dangerous game I just simply leave the gun alone and use ammo shapes that feed as is.
Not that comfortable with modifying just to get a heavy flat meplat to feed and then realize I should have been shooting barnes anyway. LOL.
Would have been fun to shoot a few with it though just to see how well it performed. Especially on a double guide hunt where I would have backup to my backup. In case.
I have a too heavy 458. But it shoots well enough. Cycles smoothly. Salt bath nitrided almost all of it and it just works. Wished it was 2 pounds lighter but it is what it is.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Not really sure why they would release a goat rope like that. Don't really give a good testimonial to the ph ,the hunter,their guns or the ammo. I'll bet their hands shake on every memory of that.mb
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
To my way of thinking. It’s easier quicker faster to clear a jam on a Push Feed action than a CRF action. dave
some day you may eat those words ? if you ever are riding a mule on a rainy - snowy and cold weather hunt in the Mountains , i seen the eyes of a grizzly at close range with a frozen push feed rifle and never again will that happen on any hunt any place for me. i now hunt only with a single shot Ruger #1 or a Winchester model 70`s with a claw when my life could be endangered. and to be honest the Ruger #1 might be the best and the safest bet ?
To my way of thinking. It’s easier quicker faster to clear a jam on a Push Feed action than a CRF action. dave
some day you may eat those words ? if you ever are riding a mule on a rainy - snowy and cold weather hunt in the Mountains , i seen the eyes of a grizzly at close range with a frozen push feed rifle and never again will that happen on any hunt any place for me. i now hunt only with a single shot Ruger #1 or a Winchester model 70`s with a claw when my life could be endangered. and to be honest the Ruger #1 might be the best and the safest bet ?
CRFs can't freeze in poor weather?
This one froze solid. That's ice, not snow. Couldn't be brushed off. Had to thaw out inside over night. Left a nice pool of water. I couldn't physically cycle the bolt due to the rain that turned to ice/snow while hunting. I "leaned on it" as much as I dared before giving up.
Seems like someone should be carrying a Beretta 1301 with some Brenneke slugs[/quote] Seriously. A shotgun on Cape buffalo? I wouldn't even risk a shotgun on a bear. Loco.[/quote]
My Afrikaner friend, who was a PH, but was a poor white South African during the Sanctions did. He had a double bbl 12ga with some kind of slugs made there ( like their R1 copy of the FN-FAL) those slugs were like armor piercers! He said they were very effective on Buffalo. Seems it was a modern concept of the old "Paradox" Gun. He showed me the gub, no rifling near the muzzle nor choke tubes, just Elmer Fudd ready! ha
To my way of thinking. It’s easier quicker faster to clear a jam on a Push Feed action than a CRF action. dave
some day you may eat those words ? if you ever are riding a mule on a rainy - snowy and cold weather hunt in the Mountains , i seen the eyes of a grizzly at close range with a frozen push feed rifle and never again will that happen on any hunt any place for me. i now hunt only with a single shot Ruger #1 or a Winchester model 70`s with a claw when my life could be endangered. and to be honest the Ruger #1 might be the best and the safest bet ?
CRFs can't freeze in poor weather?
This one froze solid. That's ice, not snow. Couldn't be brushed off. Had to thaw out inside over night. Left a nice pool of water. I couldn't physically cycle the bolt due to the rain that turned to ice/snow while hunting. I "leaned on it" as much as I dared before giving up.
i am sure any action can freeze up if your not a little careful where you set the rifle , mine was a Rem. 700 in my leather scabbard without top on , but that day all 3 - 700`s froze up that day for us, next day i took my Win. 70 no freeze up problem in the scabbard anymore, but the other guys 2 - 700`s still froze up had to put plastic bags on those two push feed rifles.
Yeah the b buffalo behind the target was most likely hit..
The "jam" of the clients rifle was due to him not being familiar with it, or with DG hunting ( as witness the fact he had to screw with his power ring when he got on the stix, and he had a sling on his rifle...)
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
He shouldn't have taken that first shot I think he wounded the second buff, and then his rifle was jamming up or the man was just nervous, great job by the PH though but the buffalo could have done some serious damage.
To my way of thinking. It’s easier quicker faster to clear a jam on a Push Feed action than a CRF action. dave
some day you may eat those words ? if you ever are riding a mule on a rainy - snowy and cold weather hunt in the Mountains , i seen the eyes of a grizzly at close range with a frozen push feed rifle and never again will that happen on any hunt any place for me. i now hunt only with a single shot Ruger #1 or a Winchester model 70`s with a claw when my life could be endangered. and to be honest the Ruger #1 might be the best and the safest bet ?
CRFs can't freeze in poor weather?
This one froze solid. That's ice, not snow. Couldn't be brushed off. Had to thaw out inside over night. Left a nice pool of water. I couldn't physically cycle the bolt due to the rain that turned to ice/snow while hunting. I "leaned on it" as much as I dared before giving up.
Bolts that are fluted give water a in, into your action.
Many of the feeding issues under stress are because the cartridge jumps the feed ramp and projectile hits the top outside of the bore and has a bolt override.
Seems like someone should be carrying a Beretta 1301 with some Brenneke slugs
Our department (Michigan State Police) switched over to the Beretta 1301 this past year from the old tried and true Rem 870. The Beretta is one heck of a shotgun. One of the nice things is that the point of impact is the same for the slugs as the buckshot. Felt recoil is also noticeably less. They are a bit pricey but they are a great platform. I’ve seen zero issues with them so far. We’ve tested them before we purchased them and since they have been in the field there has been zero issues that haven’t been proven as user error. For home defense they’d be top of my list.
They can all freeze up in the right or wrong conditions. If it’s freezing rain or snow and I’m sitting somewhere exposed I’ll put put thee action in my coat best as I can or try to cover it the best I can.
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