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Originally Posted by EdM
Originally Posted by JGRaider
Originally Posted by EdM
Like sitting in a hair cutting shop that is focused on women. Gabbers...

You're here, what does that make you? wink

For the pure comedy.

If you're throwing jabs, you're in the ring, not the stands, no matter how much you try to pretend you're "above it."

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Originally Posted by JGRaider
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by JGRaider
So a scope can be a proven, reliable killer while at the same time still not be reliable?
Absolutely, depending on what the bolded word means. grin

You said it, "reliable killer" is not necessarily the same thing as "reliable dialer" or "reliable zero holder," etc. And certainly, just because one sample of model X is "mechanically reliable," or even a "reliable killer," does not mean that the entire population of model X scopes is.

Just funnin' around a little, hope you know that.
You bet, JG. We're all here because we enjoy cussing and discussing this stuff.

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Originally Posted by SDHNTR
Jordan for the win. Sensible and pragmatic post.

Ugh...really? This is the ‘hunting optics’ forum right?

People can read, and some even know what section they’re reading in. You prs pansies can bugger off to some prs pansy sub forum. None of your horsesh1t matters here.

Killers for the win.

Just cussin and discussin.

Last edited by stinkycoyote; 02/06/24.
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Originally Posted by Brad
Agree 100% with everything Jordan posted in the above posts.

Would also add, a "drop test" will likely provide more helpful data for a guy who's backpacking in the mountains than a guy who walks to a deer stand or shoots gophers next to a pickup truck (both of which are supremely satisfying pursuits).

Also, if an erector sucks, it doesn't matter if the scope is used for dialing or is just a set and forget BDC reticle.

Like I said somewhere else, I currently have 14 (maybe more) Leupold scopes. But I've known for a long time what a half-assed erector system they have - long before I read Form's comments. His, and others, observations only reinforced what I'd already seen myself. I'd also add, his scope mounting is EXACTLY how I've mounted scopes for the last 35 years. Apparently we think about mechanical things similarly.

I want Leupold to be better than they are, but they aren't. Probably good enough for what I do or will do in the future, but if I were serious about dialing I'd be 100% in with NF, SWFA, Trijicon, or a couple others.


Boy that was pretty level headed with no emotion.

You sure this belongs in this section grin


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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by JGRaider
Originally Posted by Jordan Smith

Not necessarily. Shrapnel's killed hundreds upon hundreds of gophers and prarie dogs. Shrap uses a Swaro something or other that diehard dialers and flat brimmers pronounce as unreliable. I find that laughable. My buddy up in Oklahoma is a gov't animal control shooter who uses an Arken on one of his customs, another "unreliable" scope as deemed by the drop ll.
Again, that depends on how you define "reliable." Killing hundreds of prairie dogs or BG critters says little about how well the scope retained zero or how well it dialed. Typically, "mechanical reliability" means that the scope performs all intended functions correctly and repeatably. Since all modern scopes are designed to adjust the erector, people often include the ability to dial and RTZ in the general definition of "mechanically reliable." But even if you only consider the ability to retain zero, killing gophers and big game does not mean that the scope retains zero perfectly. Even if the scope shifts 1 MOA between shots, the average hunter would never know, based on the distance and target size inherent in 95% of big game kills. Even when talking about killing gophers - and I've killed thousands and thousands of gophers, as well, so I am familiar with the rifle and scope requirements - a 0.5-1 MOA shift between shots would still result in many dead gophers, and the misses would likely be blamed on the shooter.

"Mechanically unreliable" does not mean that the scope can't be used to kill critters effectively. It all depends on the requirements, and how you define "reliable enough."

Just perusing this thread early in the morning... I've got a couple of old Tasco 4 x 16 scopes on top of a few rifles, that I use for shooting sage rats. They have sent rounds down range and have killed thousands upon thousands of sage rats, reliably out to and pass 200 yds. Does that mean these scopes pass all these varying tests? Does it mean they are excellent scopes? Especially considering they were bought with prices being between $69 and $75 bucks?

If it does the job you desire out of a scope, does that count at all, or do we all need the most expensive scope on top, to do the job or to impress the crowds? Me having a $2000 scope on top of a rifle, would be like me putting 100 octane fuel, in the old VWs I use to drive back in my college days...wouldn't get me there any faster, or get me any better gas mileage.

If it does what I want, and I can see out of it, with my less than perfect eye sight, does what I need to do...and at least for me...I don't require that nice Night Force on top to impress anyone. Maybe if I had perfect eye sight still... but since I don't.


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“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez

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Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by Brad
Agree 100% with everything Jordan posted in the above posts.

Would also add, a "drop test" will likely provide more helpful data for a guy who's backpacking in the mountains than a guy who walks to a deer stand or shoots gophers next to a pickup truck (both of which are supremely satisfying pursuits).

Also, if an erector sucks, it doesn't matter if the scope is used for dialing or is just a set and forget BDC reticle.

Like I said somewhere else, I currently have 14 (maybe more) Leupold scopes. But I've known for a long time what a half-assed erector system they have - long before I read Form's comments. His, and others, observations only reinforced what I'd already seen myself. I'd also add, his scope mounting is EXACTLY how I've mounted scopes for the last 35 years. Apparently we think about mechanical things similarly.

I want Leupold to be better than they are, but they aren't. Probably good enough for what I do or will do in the future, but if I were serious about dialing I'd be 100% in with NF, SWFA, Trijicon, or a couple others.


Boy that was pretty level headed with no emotion.

You sure this belongs in this section grin

Brad should be banned from the Optics forum. There's only so much Rick can let slide...

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Originally Posted by JCMCUBIC
Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by Brad
Agree 100% with everything Jordan posted in the above posts.

Would also add, a "drop test" will likely provide more helpful data for a guy who's backpacking in the mountains than a guy who walks to a deer stand or shoots gophers next to a pickup truck (both of which are supremely satisfying pursuits).

Also, if an erector sucks, it doesn't matter if the scope is used for dialing or is just a set and forget BDC reticle.

Like I said somewhere else, I currently have 14 (maybe more) Leupold scopes. But I've known for a long time what a half-assed erector system they have - long before I read Form's comments. His, and others, observations only reinforced what I'd already seen myself. I'd also add, his scope mounting is EXACTLY how I've mounted scopes for the last 35 years. Apparently we think about mechanical things similarly.

I want Leupold to be better than they are, but they aren't. Probably good enough for what I do or will do in the future, but if I were serious about dialing I'd be 100% in with NF, SWFA, Trijicon, or a couple others.


Boy that was pretty level headed with no emotion.

You sure this belongs in this section grin

Brad should be banned from the Optics forum. There's only so much Rick can let slide...

I’m with you, that honest and concise rhetoric won’t be tolerated for long.


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Originally Posted by JGRaider
So a scope can be a proven, reliable killer while at the same time still not be reliable?
I've had several scopes that were reliable killers and reliably bad. They may have dialed OK, but they still sucked.
For instance, I had an Athlon that looked OK, seemed to dial OK, but had 3 MOA of parallax that couldn't be adjusted out. Would it have killed OK? Yeah, if you could put your head in the same spot every time.

Other scopes that wouldn't dial for schitt but were reliable killers. Just keep your paws off the dials.


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Originally Posted by stinkycoyote
Originally Posted by SDHNTR
Jordan for the win. Sensible and pragmatic post.

Ugh...really? This is the ‘hunting optics’ forum right?

People can read, and some even know what section they’re reading in. You prs pansies can bugger off to some prs pansy sub forum. None of your horsesh1t matters here.

Killers for the win.

Just cussin and discussin.
Who you talking to? I’ve never shot a prs thing in my life. I don’t even know or care what prs is. All I do is hunt. But I also know when I read something sensible from an intelligent person.

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From a sensible hunter? Or prs pansy? You sure you’re getting the appropriate perspective for subject at hand?

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Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by JCMCUBIC
Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by Brad
Agree 100% with everything Jordan posted in the above posts.

Would also add, a "drop test" will likely provide more helpful data for a guy who's backpacking in the mountains than a guy who walks to a deer stand or shoots gophers next to a pickup truck (both of which are supremely satisfying pursuits).

Also, if an erector sucks, it doesn't matter if the scope is used for dialing or is just a set and forget BDC reticle.

Like I said somewhere else, I currently have 14 (maybe more) Leupold scopes. But I've known for a long time what a half-assed erector system they have - long before I read Form's comments. His, and others, observations only reinforced what I'd already seen myself. I'd also add, his scope mounting is EXACTLY how I've mounted scopes for the last 35 years. Apparently we think about mechanical things similarly.

I want Leupold to be better than they are, but they aren't. Probably good enough for what I do or will do in the future, but if I were serious about dialing I'd be 100% in with NF, SWFA, Trijicon, or a couple others.


Boy that was pretty level headed with no emotion.

You sure this belongs in this section grin

Brad should be banned from the Optics forum. There's only so much Rick can let slide...

I’m with you, that honest and concise rhetoric won’t be tolerated for long.

We need to talk to Rick. This whole reasonable rhetoric cannot be tolerated any further.


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Originally Posted by stinkycoyote
From a sensible hunter? Or prs pansy? You sure you’re getting the appropriate perspective for subject at hand?

We get it. You got embarrassed at the local outlaw match, so now you have an axe to grind with competitive shooters. It's gonna be just fine.

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Have the Form haters listened to the Shoot2hunt podcast #34? I think it provides context and clarification.

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For backcountry hunting, a lot of guys are using a scabbard or a padded scope protector.

I would like to see drop tests with a padded scope protector.

I use a scabbard made by a member here. Very light and good. Good insurance.

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Originally Posted by Calvin
For backcountry hunting, a lot of guys are using a scabbard or a padded scope protector.

I would like to see drop tests with a padded scope protector.

I use a scabbard made by a member here. Very light and good. Good insurance.

Come on now Calvin. That's just silly. A real man drags his equipment through the muck and brush, and smears his hands with Crisco to make sure it slips periodically.

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Originally Posted by Jackson_Handy
Have the Form haters listened to the Shoot2hunt podcast #34? I think it provides context and clarification.

Not a hater but I made it about six minutes and that was all I could take.

Two + hours, not a chance.

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I was busy changing the air in my tires.


It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Originally Posted by WYcoyote
Originally Posted by Jackson_Handy
Have the Form haters listened to the Shoot2hunt podcast #34? I think it provides context and clarification.

Not a hater but I made it about six minutes and that was all I could take.

Two + hours, not a chance.
Cliff notes?


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Originally Posted by PeeDeeRiver
Originally Posted by stinkycoyote
From a sensible hunter? Or prs pansy? You sure you’re getting the appropriate perspective for subject at hand?

We get it. You got embarrassed at the local outlaw match, so now you have an axe to grind with competitive shooters. It's gonna be just fine.

Lol, me at a match?

Hunt only, I like gear, and trialling, in field, my own gongs, my own 3d targets...then hunting, or fishing. Not playing touch willy at some match doing a bunch of the wrong kind of practice. But hey, if you’re bored and shoot is what your hobby is then giver. Hunt is mine. They still don’t make a match proper for hunting. 3d archery is close but where is that for the bang sticks? 200 rounds, sighters, little square plates (great on target reference...not), sighters, teams, much of it past real hunting distances, requiring unrealistic gear and methods. Don’t worry, even if they did get it right I’d still be hunting or fishing instead lol and prs pansies can tell my walls and my freezer how amazing ffp/mil Hubble tank is for filling both. 200 rounds...lmfao. The latest f-class.

I had this go round on rokslide and a guy who dove right in admitted he was so wrapped up in it his walls and freezer were empty. Guess some of you need to figure out what’s more important. Trying to be some rockstar to other dudes in matches or just out there doing it without giving a flying fack if anyone knows about it. And this these threads in hunting optics sections going on and on about all this useless sh1t.

Lol...we will right this ship. People will wake up and we will find ourselves a new trend to turn into a big ole money factory. Prs is a dandy right now but we will come full circle and focus on what’s fastest simplest toughest and best for 0-600 yards HUNTING prep, including a competition lol. And it won’t have square targets and it won’t be 200 rounds and it won’t have guns over 10 lbs, save your ‘but but nrl’ arguments, same wrong with it, not enough right. 1/2 to 3/4 sec time of flights like 3d, where killin happens, animals with flappers, solo, custom and reload, and factory including ammo, a box of shells a day.

Like I said, drag this crap into the prs pansy touch willy sub forums where it belongs. I get to be rude like this here lol, it’s great. So many lost in the weeds, can’t see the forest. 😉

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Wow.

You guys are rollin.

Have Formy (Chuck) call me when he kills a nice bull. Note Gold Ring.

I'll be waiting.

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They can't stop the signal.

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