Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Regarding S.E.E. and cast bullets

I don't know how many of you have heard of this. I am referring to Secondary Explosion something (I'm sorry it was a long night). My question comes from loading 152 grain cast bullets w/gascheck in a 30-06. I pulled a load using #2400 pistol powder from the Lyman #47 manual. The charge was 20.0 grains the lowest listed. I have shot this load before and did not have a problem but from my limited understanding of this problem wouldn't these loads be candidates for such occurrences?<P>Hopefully I can get Mr. Howell and all of you others with more experience than myself to comment on this. Sean

I have the Lyman's Manual and you are to use their data as tested. There is no SEE danger with 2400 and you are loaded at the bottom I see. I believe 2400's composition may be a little faster no. If yoy don't like that one use 13gr of Blue Dot. It works nice as well. These powders are not position sensitive, but you could raise the muzzle to keep the powder back in the case before firing.<P>------------------<BR>"Use a big enough gun!"

There have been many experiments with SEE, as far as I have heard nobody has yet been able to create this effect at will. SEE has been know to occur only with overbore capacity cases (which the .30/06 is not) loaded with reduced charges of slow burning powder (which 2400 is not in the .30/06). On the contrary 2400 is a very fast burning powder in the .30/06. SEE is commonly associated with cartridges like the .264 Win. mag loaded with reduced charges of the very slowest powders IMR 7828 Hodgdon H870, etc. I did once see a young lady shooting a .300 Win mag. loaded with about 2/3 capacity charges of H4831 and 180 grain bullets. She was having major hangfires and I advised her to quit immediately. 2400 is my favorite cast bullet powder. I have used it in 7x57, .30/30, .308, .30/06, .303, .358 Win., .35 Whelen and .45/70. The only controversy about light charges of fast burning powders and cast bullets involve whether or not to use fillers. Some cast bullets shooters(including me) will not use fillers because of the fear of ringing a chamber. OTOH many cast bullets shooters including some I have a lot of respect for swear by fillers. Because 2400 and similar powders take up so little room in the case I start with cases mouth down in the loading block to avoid double charging. Then I check the whole block of charged cases with a flashlight to be sure they are all the same level. Hope this helps, curmudgeon

Hey Guys, Thanks for the input. I was thinking it was fast burning powders but you are right. Like I said I shot this load last summer and did not have a problem but it just made me think after reading a few articles about this lately.<P>My method is the same for everything I load I start with all mouths up, then as I charge a case I put the bullet nose down in the case. Before I seat the bullet I look at the powder level. Sean

Hey Lone Eagle, this is not original with me, I picked it up from another board where the guy posted a link to the article in one of the annual Handloading Digests. Any caliber above 30, for a reduced practice load, use 13 grains Red Dot, which has a fair amount of volume. Article said it seemed to work best with longer, that is heavier, as opposed to lighter than normal bullets in whatever caliber. Can't wait to try it in my .375. Even tho I have loaded hundred of pounds of Red Dot in Shotgun shells, I had to go buy some ysterday at the Dallas Gun Show. Will report back with some results in a day or two. This is a 50 yard practice type load, gets about 1400fps in a .30/06 as I recall. Might be worth trying.

Okay... PO Ackley is quoted as having said to use magnum primers to eliminate such SEE problems. His 'theory' says a low(undetected) charge might be seperated into two portions, for and aft, and have duel detonations, and cause an explosion. His theory says a mag primer will compensate for this 'misadventure' by burning both at the same time, as if were one. <BR>Do we use a mag primer in ALL our loads in fear of blowing our gun? <BR>Anyone got Ackley's book vol II and can you varify this theory? <BR>Its been said this only applies to overbore cartridges with a seriously low charge(undetected), not a 45-70 as an example. Whats the deal?<BR>BTW one only needs to view the case to see the powder levels, and correct a low charge. So, is Ackley's theory valid? ~~~Suluuq

Rusty-Gunn,<P>I can't comment on Ackley's theory altho the phenomena is so rare that I don't think anyone has been able to replicate it enough to really study it.<P>But, as far as the straight walled cases go, there have been several instances over the years where handguns have blown up with reduced charges theoretically due to SEE and, of course, those are not overbore. And they might tend to exaggerate the effects somewhat since the typical Colt or Smith does not have the extra metal in the cylinders, etc. to handle excess pressures like some of the more modern Rugers and others. My answer is, don't fool around with those areas that have produced these problems in the past, there are other ways to get to the same result.

As far as SEE in straightwall cases, specifically revolvers, it is my understanding that it has only occured with Hodgdon 110 or Winchester 296, which folks say is the same powder. Anyhow, this is a ball powder that is difficult to ignite, and when looks at published data, the starting loads are very close to the max loads, because of this. Thats one reason I prefer 2400 to H110/W296, you give up ~100 fps on the top end, but have the flexibility to download.<P>As far as 2400 in rifles, I've used plenty of it with 200 gr cast bullets in the 35 whelen. I've also used the 13 gr red dot load and it works well also. I've used 2400 in the 14 to 20 gr range in the whelen, and would think that the same range would be safe in the -06. You should really like the 2400 cast bullet loads, very little recoil and excellent accuracy.