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Originally Posted by Crash_Pad
Putin's biggest problem might be getting rid of the Nazi Banderists once Zelinsky is gone and surrender is final.

Putin made that clear. Nazi problem is his biggest issue.

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Originally Posted by Crash_Pad
[
. War against Russia is war against nationalist identity and individual freedoms as espoused by the ancient Orthodox Christian faith


In that interview with Tucker, Putin mentioned the war Zelensky is waging on Orthodox Christianity in Ukraine.



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Originally Posted by irfubar
Good conversation gentlemen... these things need to be discussed. Seems many boomers are stuck in the cold war mentality.

That is exactly what the Left is relying on. A generation whom the government schools ingrained a Pavlovian response "USSR (Russia) is bad" stop.

Those who have served abroad will (may) know that good people can be found anywhere. Even in the heart if enemy territory. But those who learned about our "enemies" in school were not taught this.

If you take the time to read the history of our "enemies" you will understand more about the people whom those governments rule over. But, it generally takes someone from academia to translate foreign historical documents. Where do their loyalties lie? (Claudine Gay et. Al.,)

Are you surprised that it is difficult to find an accurate history of Russia or China? Perhaps that is why Putin passed over the folder. I imagine that it includes copies if the "Ukrainian requests for protection from the oppression of Orthodox Christians by the Pope and Poles, And also the agreement to return to the " fold" so to speak and submit to the rule of the Tsar.

Is it really so surprising to see Russia producing historic documents documenting territorial claims when China (their largest and most pressing adversary) is getting away with creating new Islands in the South China Sea to promote their claim to that area? And Mitch McConnell is helping China conquer the world?

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Originally Posted by irfubar
Originally Posted by gunchamp
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by irfubar
Antelope sniper , I have always considered you a fairly reasonable person as well as thoughtful and intelligent....
So now that i have blown sunshine up your azz, could you answer a question I asked earlier?
What is the downside if we quit funding Ukraine vs the downside if we continue funding them? and no , I don't consider your assertion that Putin has eyes on taking Alaska credible...
What if Putin is telling the truth? he went before the world and said stop funding Ukraine and this thing will be over immediately, so lets assume the worst and that means he will win.
You surely don't believe Alaska is next... sooo how is the US threatened by Ukraine losing?
How is the US threatened by continuing funding the war?
These are the things you need to consider, if you need help with answers I will be happy to assist

Brother Fubar,

Thank you for the compliment.

Yes, my position if founded deep thought, reason, and experience; the experience of a former Intelligence Analyst covering primarily Strategic Level Soviet and Post Soviet issues, and among other things, responsible daily theater level threat assessments. So with the simple question you asked, I could quite literally wrong a book on the second and third order knock on effects of the various decisions we could make.

So instead of writing a book lets break this down to the most common value, most common perspective we share.

Now I'm making some assumption based on our previous conversations and your previous posts, so please correct me where I misrepresent your position or beliefs.

You and I want strong borders that protect our America, our people, and our interests. You are in favor of building a fence to contain the bad actors coming attempting to cross our southern border. We need surveillance so we know who's coming and going, check points do we can stop the criminals, the drugs and disease, terrorist, Jihadists, and the undesirables.

Tall fences make good neighbors, but there's more than one way to contain a pack of several thousand rabid dogs living in open space. Sure you could build a fence around your property, but what if your wife walks to the store, or your kids go play with the neighbors, now what? So instead, you build a fence around them. Same concept of what you want with Mexico, just a different application.

Now imagine those dogs break the the fence and one of your partner is willing to kill them, and all you have to do is keep handing him ammo. Your wife and kids don't have to leave the house and face any real danger, just hand these guys ammo and let them get bit? You have a whole bunch of self ammo you need to rotate out for new any way, so why not give to him to kill dogs? So you start kicking out new reloads and giving him your old stuff. Now some of his neighbors have bought your reloads in the past, and would like some fresh ammo, so they agree to give him their old stuff (F-16's), and you'll sell them new stuff (F-35's).

And these guys keep killing dogs, and all his neighbors keep buying more of your stuff, for which you will sell them the spare parts that your son makes, so he has a job, and his neighbors build their fences higher and stronger.

Now the other side of the open space has feral cats (Chinese). Some of these cats are big and shoot fireballs out of their eyes and lightning out the arse (SSBN's). But you have friends over there who let you set up a sensor network (First Island Chain SOSUS) so you keeps tabs on them, give you a place to say (Bases) and feed you when you're in the area (refuel your ships. Our Carriers are nuclear, but their escorts are not. The unclassified range of an Arleigh Burke is only 5100 miles at 20 knots, much less at combat speeds).

You have both the cats and dogs on pretty good lock down, and they can't get close enough to your property to do any real damage, and the dogs keep dying. Eventually the dogs may get this on family, but they'll be too depleted to pose a significant threat for another 30 years. This could lead to the next "peace dividend" or at least half a dividend, at least for the next 30 year, during which time they will be ignored, not hunted. Hopefully they are not able to rebuild their numbers (Both Russia and China's birth rates are well below replacement) to threatening levels. Regardless the Cat's see what's happening as well, and realize they need to reevaluate their situation.

But what happens if you pull out of this structure?

We loose allies. We lose bases. Our ability to project power is compromised. Gaps appear in our forward sensing networks. We suffer significant impairments to our ability to track Russian and Chinese Naval assets.

We'll see more resistance to US presences with critical partners. Japan nicely bottles up the Russian Pacific Fleet headquartered in Vladivostok. Taiwan's a critical brick in the First Island Chain wall around China. Singapore, Philippines, various allies in the Middle East, many who don't like being mentioned, all contribute to our ability to project power, maintain open sea lanes, and not fight wars on American Soil.

Since the Civil war there's been two major events on US soil, Pearl Harbor and 9/11.

Both during periods of strong isolationism sentiment.

When dealing with unreasonable peoples on the international stage there's two interesting strategies for us.

One is ignore our threats and respond after a whole bunch of Americans die and then do something. The other is containment them, and from time-to-time give them a good proactive stomping, then leave (Gulf War I). If someone else will do the stomping and take the bites for us, that even better.
Your thought process is evil my friend. You come to grips with killing millions of innocent people by convincing yourself that if we dont, we will be attacked on our homeland. You are as blood thirsty as some 3rd world country gang leader. Sad so many think like you and this thought process have given the green light to the evil pricks that are in control to kill and over throw all around the world. Ask yourself this. How long is Russia going to put up with us feeding ukraine weapons to kill them? You know there is already americans on the ground and this will be full blowm war in the not too distant future. Is your thinking worth potentially ending the world as we know it in hell fire from nukes? Its a game that only the most blood thirsty c ocksuckers want to play. F ucking sad

Interesting hearing both sides. I must admit I subscribe more to gunchamps point of view... seems in the guise of self defense we have become the aggressors.
Post cold war Russia , post Bolshevik control, they seem to have become much more defensive than offensive.
During the cold war I also believe they were a paper tiger, it served the military industrial complex to have them as a perceived threat. Keep that money flowing in.
I believe since the maturity of the industrial age many countries have decided trade, production and good relations is a much better path.
That being said I don't believe Muslim subscribe to that plan, they are theological and need to conquer the infidels, that explains Hamas and other terror organizations.
Bottom line is our politicians have sold out our manufacturing base, natural resource production, taxed and regulated our labor force almost out of existence.
Our own government has become a much bigger threat to us than foreign actors.
How about we bring our forces home. Tell everyone you attack us we will level your country. No aid to rebuild nothing, scorched earth.
Want peaceful trade with us? yep all day long with trade balance, possible tariffs etc...a fair and level playing field.
A.S. your cold war mentality is out dated I believe. And your plan only works in the hands of good and fair people, we are no longer that!!!!

Fubar,

When some tells me my geopolitical analysis is outdated it reminds of all the new investors of the late 90's saying metrics such as earnings and free cash flow were outdated, and how quickly their "new reality" was crushed, and how in only 8 short years we were again crushed by a different variation of those "new realities".

Our positions are actually closer than you think. In an ideal world your plan of Fortress America playing Wack-a-Mole would sound great, but we don't live in a prefect world. Wacking Moles requires power projection is based on logistics, which requires bases, which requires allies, and the same can be maintaining sea lanes.

After Pan AM 103 Reagan played Wack a Mole with Gaddafi. Put a bomb right in his tent. Missed Gaddafi but allegedly killed one of his kids. He didn't stick his had up for a long time. But, remember, we launched par of that attack from England, and France did permit us to use their airspace due to fears of terrorist retaliation. These operations are complex and require partners.

As for the US becoming the aggressor, think of it more as forward deployed defense in depth, or a 3/4 court press. We're still on defense, but were not going to let you walk up and take a shot from the 3 point line either. This strategy works will with large antagonistic organized powers such as Russian and China, but is not suitable for the Middle East. There you have to play wack-a-mole, but it's best to wack them while they're little, before they've grown into an Al-Qaeda or ISIS, which requires intelligence, and properly placed intelligence assets, and partners.... Regardless, so long as oil's important to us or those with shared interests with us we'll be in the Middle east.

Leveling countries sounds great on paper, but that's not a politically viable option in the US.

Rebuilding does not work on paper. Generally it only works in educated industrial countries that have lost no less then 5% of their total population and issues an unconditional surrender, and we no longer have the fortitude for that kind of war.

On trade, we agree.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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What has happened in Russia 100 years ago, is happening now in the USA, Canada, and elsewhere, some would say exactly the same.

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Originally Posted by jaguartx
Originally Posted by 45_100
Originally Posted by SargeMO
One, this was hardly an interview. Putin talked about what he wanted to talk about and Carlson served as his video stenographer. The 'interview' happened in Russia so this is hardly surprising.

Two, the transcript has been available several days. On the premise it is accurate, anybody can read it and form their own opinions.

I see it somewhat differently. Tucker asked Putin why he invaded Ukraine and Putin went into detailed explanation of the history which was relevant to the answer. Tucker was intelligent enough to let Putin have his say knowing to cut him off would have ended the conversation. From what I have seen Putin would have said “You asked me a question. Are you going to let me answer or do we end the interview here?”

Tucker handled it very well in my opinion. He didn’t ask softball questions like what kind of ice cream do you like or do you wear boxers or briefs? He let Putin answer and didn’t challenge his answers. This was an interview where Putin was given the opportunity to explain why he did what he did and why he thought what he thought. It wasn’t a discussion or debate.

If you ask someone what do you think about this or that, they aren’t wrong for telling you what they think. They are only wrong if they lie to you and tell you what someone told them to think. I didn’t get the impression Putin lied.

Pretty ballsy to ask Putin to release the news person from a Russian prison.
Pretty ballsy to even go over three, take on Putin at the Kremlin.

Tucker did pretty good, considering he was dealing with a seasoned KGB agent. Putin did filibuster and control the narrative. But Tucker got in a few good questions which led to even more filibuster.

I’m not sure it accomplished that much, other than enrage the globalists. They definitely didn’t like it, didn’t fit their narrative.

So, from that standpoint, it was good.

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I’m still trying to process all the things Putin revealed in that performance. He reinforced a lot of what I thought was true. CIA, Nordstream, the magic knee grow, the coup in Ukraine, never ending wars, US manipulation of global economy and many other things. And yes asking about the US journalist was very ballsy. I sensed a level of mutual respect between the participants.

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Originally Posted by 45_100
I’m still trying to process all the things Putin revealed in that performance. He reinforced a lot of what I thought was true. CIA, Nordstream, the magic knee grow, the coup in Ukraine, never ending wars, US manipulation of global economy and many other things. And yes asking about the US journalist was very ballsy. I sensed a level of mutual respect between the participants.
Well, hopefully it will open some eyes, get people hearing other than MSM gaslighting.

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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by 45_100
I’m still trying to process all the things Putin revealed in that performance. He reinforced a lot of what I thought was true. CIA, Nordstream, the magic knee grow, the coup in Ukraine, never ending wars, US manipulation of global economy and many other things. And yes asking about the US journalist was very ballsy. I sensed a level of mutual respect between the participants.
Well, hopefully it will open some eyes, get people hearing other than MSM gaslighting.

DF

Just because the MSM is gaslighting us it doesn't mean that Putin isn't.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by 45_100
I’m still trying to process all the things Putin revealed in that performance. He reinforced a lot of what I thought was true. CIA, Nordstream, the magic knee grow, the coup in Ukraine, never ending wars, US manipulation of global economy and many other things. And yes asking about the US journalist was very ballsy. I sensed a level of mutual respect between the participants.
Well, hopefully it will open some eyes, get people hearing other than MSM gaslighting.

DF

Just because the MSM is gaslighting us it doesn't mean that Putin isn't.


Well, he very well could be. Therefore we must "take him out."


Don't be the darkness.

America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.


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"It's not a question if IF we fight the Russians, it's a question of when, where and how. When you look at he ROI of what we spend relative to what he gain in degradation of Russian capabilities, increase in the capabilities of us and our allies relative to our expenditures in blood and treasure, this is bargain."

Did you nod off when Vlad chuckled at the idea of invading Poland or anyone else? It's absurd, a NATO fantasy to maintain its relevance as it rapidly collapses. NATO lost any reason to exist when the Soviet Union broke apart and Russia was weak. But the money was too good! Now NATO has no reason to exist because Russia is strong. Too strong to ever be isolated, exploited, or threatened ever again. Why would Putin want any neurotic suicidal Western nations when he has a strong self sufficient country - and unified people? Peace and prosperity belong to the BRICs.

Your analysis, if that's it, is so childish it's hard to think what imaginary era your Walter Mitty daydreams float in from. Reboot the interview, and listen this time....

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as long as Ukrainians are killing Russkies, i'd say send them the weapons and equipment. we have or had so much many weapons that are slated for destruction by the time stamp. just because we have the missile or artillery shell, doesn't mean in 30 years now, we will use it in a war. the explosive power and computer degrades after a time. it could be in a week or 20 years. then you have replace it or destroy it. or as in this case, give it to Ukraine and Israel and replace it new in your stock.

there is a law, passed by Congress, that we have to have certain number of shells, bullets, missiles, tanks, trucks....... in our stock in case of war. AND we have alot of it. FrankenSparrow and FrankenSidewinder and the FrankenHawk missiles are just some. yes, if you build it on a 4x4 pickup truck, then it is a Franken(stein) anything. a quad 50 on a Toyota pickup, FrankenQuad50. 40mm autocannon on a Ford pickup, FrankenFord40mm. we just happen to have alot of them.

$60 billion package, that includes equipment and weapons is around $48-50 billion. the other $10 - 12 billion, i have a problem with that.

so as long as they kill Russkies, it is less that we have to fight.


"Russia sucks."
---- Me, US Army (retired) 12B & 51B

Russian Admiral said, after the Moskva sank, "we have the world's worst navy but we aren't as bad as our army".

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Originally Posted by Crash_Pad
"It's not a question if IF we fight the Russians, it's a question of when, where and how. When you look at he ROI of what we spend relative to what he gain in degradation of Russian capabilities, increase in the capabilities of us and our allies relative to our expenditures in blood and treasure, this is bargain."

Did you nod off when Vlad chuckled at the idea of invading Poland or anyone else? It's absurd, a NATO fantasy to maintain its relevance as it rapidly collapses. NATO lost any reason to exist when the Soviet Union broke apart and Russia was weak. But the money was too good! Now NATO has no reason to exist because Russia is strong. Too strong to ever be isolated, exploited, or threatened ever again. Why would Putin want any neurotic suicidal Western nations when he has a strong self sufficient country - and unified people? Peace and prosperity belong to the BRICs.

Your analysis, if that's it, is so childish it's hard to think what imaginary era your Walter Mitty daydreams float in from. Reboot the interview, and listen this time....

Try to keep up.

When I say fight them, we're not necessarily talking about direct kinetic conflict. To mitigate the risk of nuclear conflict we operate under an unspoken agreement that we primarily fight through 3rd parties. It's called a proxy war.

We've been involved in a series of over 50, maybe even 100 proxy wars with the Russians since WWII. This is just the latest in that long series, and giving us very good ROI.

Last edited by antelope_sniper; 02/12/24.

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putin Bitch-Slapped tucker and showed him where he belongs...; ole tucker with that damn stupid look shutthefuck up...

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Tucker conducted the interview well. I think he was expecting for it to be just another interview where he could lead the topic. Instead Putin had his own agenda that was about schooling the world on Russian history and their ideology in this conflict. Only a very conflicted person would hold that Ukraine was in their rights to murder and commit genocide on ethnic Russian inhabitants of traditional Russian territories. In what world are American funded bio weapon labs ok to be constructed on Russia's doorstep. In what world is it ok to break the agreement not to surround Russia with NATO weapons. Putin was correct in saying that there are limited Nations with resources capable of destroying the Nord stream pipeline. America sits at the top of the list and then there's Biden boasting about doing just that. Putin told Tucker early in the interview that it was going to be a discussion which I'm sure they had agreed on before hand. At some point most interviews become interrogations and Putin was not prepaired to go there. He conducted himself well. He was clear and relaxed.

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Name the 100 wars where the US engaged Russians in combat. Or just 85. Shhessg the covid boosters really rotted your boomer covtard brain


The US is 34 trillion in debt with run away inflation because of endless invasions, occupations and worthless sanctions that back fired. . Thank God we invaded Iraq twice and have illegally occupied Iraq for over 30 years. Did Russia cause this? How about our illegal invasion and occupation of 20 years in Afghanistan? Russia was behind this too? I thought all of the 911 high jackers were Afghnai nationals right diaper?



How about Somalia invasions and occupation? Russia again? lol


So the us bombed the main source of energy for Europe because of Russia? lol





Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Crash_Pad
"It's not a question if IF we fight the Russians, it's a question of when, where and how. When you look at he ROI of what we spend relative to what he gain in degradation of Russian capabilities, increase in the capabilities of us and our allies relative to our expenditures in blood and treasure, this is bargain."

Did you nod off when Vlad chuckled at the idea of invading Poland or anyone else? It's absurd, a NATO fantasy to maintain its relevance as it rapidly collapses. NATO lost any reason to exist when the Soviet Union broke apart and Russia was weak. But the money was too good! Now NATO has no reason to exist because Russia is strong. Too strong to ever be isolated, exploited, or threatened ever again. Why would Putin want any neurotic suicidal Western nations when he has a strong self sufficient country - and unified people? Peace and prosperity belong to the BRICs.

Your analysis, if that's it, is so childish it's hard to think what imaginary era your Walter Mitty daydreams float in from. Reboot the interview, and listen this time....

Try to keep up.

When I say fight them, we're not necessarily talking about direct kinetic conflict. To mitigate the risk of nuclear conflict we operate under an unspoken agreement that we primarily fight through 3rd parties. It's called a proxy war.

We've been involved in a series of over 50, maybe even 100 proxy wars with the Russians since WWII. This is just the latest in that long series, and giving us very good ROI.

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Originally Posted by Greyghost
putin Bitch-Slapped tucker and showed him where he belongs...; ole tucker with that damn stupid look shutthefuck up...

Phil

He did no such thing. He graciously redirected Tucker's adolescent suggestion to call up Biden after painstakingly working out a very detailed proposal with Ukraine - that Biden, through Boris, rejected. He also gently chided Tucker's impatience with important history that set this conflict in motion hundreds of years ago, explaining Russia and the Russian soul. Putin, somewhat amazed, pointed out his naivete at the very real and present danger of Nazi ideology. Remarkably sloppy preparation by Tucker's team. But Putin was a diplomat and gentleman. You belong in the Hillary Clinton school of foreign relations.

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Originally Posted by tdoyka
as long as Ukrainians are killing Russkies, i'd say send them the weapons and equipment. we have or had so much many weapons that are slated for destruction by the time stamp. just because we have the missile or artillery shell, doesn't mean in 30 years now, we will use it in a war. the explosive power and computer degrades after a time. it could be in a week or 20 years. then you have replace it or destroy it. or as in this case, give it to Ukraine and Israel and replace it new in your stock.

there is a law, passed by Congress, that we have to have certain number of shells, bullets, missiles, tanks, trucks....... in our stock in case of war. AND we have alot of it. FrankenSparrow and FrankenSidewinder and the FrankenHawk missiles are just some. yes, if you build it on a 4x4 pickup truck, then it is a Franken(stein) anything. a quad 50 on a Toyota pickup, FrankenQuad50. 40mm autocannon on a Ford pickup, FrankenFord40mm. we just happen to have alot of them.

$60 billion package, that includes equipment and weapons is around $48-50 billion. the other $10 - 12 billion, i have a problem with that.

so as long as they kill Russkies, it is less that we have to fight.

This is the most utterly asinine thing I have read in a while.

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Originally Posted by Stophel
Originally Posted by tdoyka
as long as Ukrainians are killing Russkies, i'd say send them the weapons and equipment. we have or had so much many weapons that are slated for destruction by the time stamp. just because we have the missile or artillery shell, doesn't mean in 30 years now, we will use it in a war. the explosive power and computer degrades after a time. it could be in a week or 20 years. then you have replace it or destroy it. or as in this case, give it to Ukraine and Israel and replace it new in your stock.

there is a law, passed by Congress, that we have to have certain number of shells, bullets, missiles, tanks, trucks....... in our stock in case of war. AND we have alot of it. FrankenSparrow and FrankenSidewinder and the FrankenHawk missiles are just some. yes, if you build it on a 4x4 pickup truck, then it is a Franken(stein) anything. a quad 50 on a Toyota pickup, FrankenQuad50. 40mm autocannon on a Ford pickup, FrankenFord40mm. we just happen to have alot of them.

$60 billion package, that includes equipment and weapons is around $48-50 billion. the other $10 - 12 billion, i have a problem with that.

so as long as they kill Russkies, it is less that we have to fight.

This is the most utterly asinine thing I have read in a while.
“Influencer” told him that

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Originally Posted by 45_100
I’m still trying to process all the things Putin revealed in that performance. He reinforced a lot of what I thought was true. CIA, Nordstream, the magic knee grow, the coup in Ukraine, never ending wars, US manipulation of global economy and many other things. And yes asking about the US journalist was very ballsy. I sensed a level of mutual respect between the participants.

Tucker himself said it would take him a full year to process and understand it all. A phenomenal presentation for our day and time.
Edit: I thought Tucker was poorly prepared. But, it's a stretch I know, maybe his naive questions that exemplify what dumbed down Americans think was intentional?

Last edited by Crash_Pad; 02/13/24.
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