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Joined: Apr 2003
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It's amazing what you learn when you read people who know what they are talking about
Unlike jetjoke who gets his info from the view....
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Joined: Nov 2015
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Campfire Ranger
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"The Epoch Times headline in your “NYC Out of Control” post calls the dollar part of the verdict against the Trumps a “penalty.” It has also been called a “fine,” but I haven’t yet seen it called “damages” in a headline. I think Hochul, Engoron, and James know that the amount was based on a damage assessment and calculation that may not hold up. New York Executive Law § 63(12) clearly reads that the attorney general “may apply…for an order…directing restitution and damages…”. [Emphasis mine.]
New York proved math calculations, not actual damages, where the damaged party had to be made whole. Had the statute recited a list of fines, they’d probably be in a more sound position, but their position now is what I would call “too dicey for comfort.” I would seize nothing in this situation because there are too many cases of improper seizures to worry about. The verdicts against those who seize property in error or improperly or hastily in a flawed or tainted case are many times larger than the amount of the money judgment used to seize and sell the property of the defendant.
Furthermore, if New York has someone running the Trump businesses, and should he or she destroy or damage the businesses, the state could be liable for many, many times the amount of the verdict/judgment against the Trump family. Trump could wind up seizing the state capitol, the governor’s residence, etc., plus having his property returned to him. I’ve seen this happen. Once, the State of Louisiana overreached, and once, the U.S. government was a litigant against a billionaire oil man, banker, and friend who could not get the IRS to return his multi-million dollar overpayment of taxes. He finally had enough, and he seized the Hale Boggs Federal Court Building. He got his money a day later.
Perhaps by dancing around exactly what legal principle the amount of the money verdict/judgment is based on (i.e., damages, fines, penalties [i.e., a payment imposed as punishment], whatever), the Hochul, Engoron, James enterprise has walked into a trap. The Eighth Amendment prohibits excessive fines. If they maintain the amount is absolutely based on the principle of damages, how can they show a diminution of the state being “whole” (or “wholeness” if you will) owing to Trump’s actions with third parties. If they maintain the amount of the verdict/judgment is based on a properly enacted and published fine or penalty, then they must face the Eighth Amendment.
In my opinion, Hochul, Engoron, and James are whistling past the graveyard. They have put their careers on the line, and the dice are tumbling." The formula used by the judge is based on the legal remedy of disgorgement, not restitution. The statute in question allows for both. The theory is that Trump is being asked to give back the "ill-gotten" gains that he received as a result of his deceptive practices. That's what the decision and order states.
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Campfire Regular
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So, if he did nothing wrong, and the courts are just out to get him, why the need to lie? If the media is correct, why would Allen Weisselberg need to negotiate a perjury plea with prosecutors for lies during his two days of testimony?
Also, if it’s just bad judges and prosecutors, why did a jury find Trump guilty of sexually assaulting E Jean Carroll and awarding her $5 million? Why did a totally separate jury find him guilty of defaming her and awarding her $83 million?
In Georgia, not exactly a liberal blue state, another totally separate Grand Jury recommended charges against Trump and 38 others, of which Fani Willis decided to charge 19 people. Bash Willis all you want, but in order to get to Willis, it had to go through a Grand Jury first……A Grand jury of our peers, which saw the evidence, recommended bringing charges to 39 people. That’s not liberal judges or prosecutors. That’s regular US citizens who saw the evidence! See, this is how our court system works, and while not perfect, it works pretty darn well. Eventually you have to ask yourself if ALL of these Judges, ALL of these prosecutors, and ALL of these juries are in cahoots, how in the hell did not one single person come out with the cliff notes of how all of these people were going to work together to doom Trump? Do you ever look in the mirror, at Trump's past and history, and say, “Ya, where there’s smoke there’s fire?” All these people can’t be working together in perfect harmony.
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Joined: Apr 2003
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2003
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Are you that brainwashed ?
Or are you just a Democrat sock puppet ?
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,848 Likes: 10
Campfire Outfitter
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,848 Likes: 10 |
Let’s take a hundred year old statute and apply it in a manner it has never been applied before to a transaction never intended to be covered by said statute for $200, Alex.
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,084
Campfire Tracker
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Joined: Apr 2003
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What deceptive practice ?
Who got deceived?
Who got defrauded, lost money ?
You can make that argument against any business, any time.
By doing what was done to Trump, NYC is going to be more of a corrupt cesspool than it already is.
What developer in their right mind would spend a dime there ?
Who's going to buy their bonds ?
Last edited by hicountry; 02/23/24.
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Are you that brainwashed ?
Or are you just a Democrat sock puppet ? Both.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,848 Likes: 10
Campfire Outfitter
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Joined: Dec 2013
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So, if he did nothing wrong, and the courts are just out to get him, why the need to lie? If the media is correct, why would Allen Weisselberg need to negotiate a perjury plea with prosecutors for lies during his two days of testimony?
Also, if it’s just bad judges and prosecutors, why did a jury find Trump guilty of sexually assaulting E Jean Carroll and awarding her $5 million? Why did a totally separate jury find him guilty of defaming her and awarding her $83 million?
In Georgia, not exactly a liberal blue state, another totally separate Grand Jury recommended charges against Trump and 38 others, of which Fani Willis decided to charge 19 people. Bash Willis all you want, but in order to get to Willis, it had to go through a Grand Jury first……A Grand jury of our peers, which saw the evidence, recommended bringing charges to 39 people. That’s not liberal judges or prosecutors. That’s regular US citizens who saw the evidence! See, this is how our court system works, and while not perfect, it works pretty darn well. Eventually you have to ask yourself if ALL of these Judges, ALL of these prosecutors, and ALL of these juries are in cahoots, how in the hell did not one single person come out with the cliff notes of how all of these people were going to work together to doom Trump? Do you ever look in the mirror, at Trump's past and history, and say, “Ya, where there’s smoke there’s fire?” All these people can’t be working together in perfect harmony. Ham phuqing sandwich
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,909 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,909 Likes: 1 |
So, if he did nothing wrong, and the courts are just out to get him, why the need to lie? If the media is correct, why would Allen Weisselberg need to negotiate a perjury plea with prosecutors for lies during his two days of testimony?
Also, if it’s just bad judges and prosecutors, why did a jury find Trump guilty of sexually assaulting E Jean Carroll and awarding her $5 million? Why did a totally separate jury find him guilty of defaming her and awarding her $83 million?
In Georgia, not exactly a liberal blue state, another totally separate Grand Jury recommended charges against Trump and 38 others, of which Fani Willis decided to charge 19 people. Bash Willis all you want, but in order to get to Willis, it had to go through a Grand Jury first……A Grand jury of our peers, which saw the evidence, recommended bringing charges to 39 people. That’s not liberal judges or prosecutors. That’s regular US citizens who saw the evidence! See, this is how our court system works, and while not perfect, it works pretty darn well. Eventually you have to ask yourself if ALL of these Judges, ALL of these prosecutors, and ALL of these juries are in cahoots, how in the hell did not one single person come out with the cliff notes of how all of these people were going to work together to doom Trump? Do you ever look in the mirror, at Trump's past and history, and say, “Ya, where there’s smoke there’s fire?” All these people can’t be working together in perfect harmony. Yes, they can.
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 12,155 Likes: 18
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Joined: Jan 2016
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New York has completely ignored the law in favor of punishing Trump and it won't work. Eventually Trump will prevail in a large way I think.
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 6,084
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I think the legal beagles here should spend time looking into the Biden crime family, and selling out of the VP office by dementia Joe.
Just say'n.
Lawfare against a political opponent is right out of the fascist playbook.
And if people can't see that, they really are brainwashed.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,787 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Joined: Feb 2001
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The first thing Bolsheviks do when they take over. Is confiscate rich people's property. New York is done as a financial center. dave
Only accurate rifles are interesting.
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 4,350
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Joined: Mar 2017
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Are you that brainwashed ?
Or are you just a Democrat sock puppet ? Jetboy post #1327390 "Hate to say this, but most of you are a bunch of idiots.. I tend to be a hell of a lot more liberal than conservative"
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Posts: 15,394 Likes: 28
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
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That effing judge needs to be in a dirt bath pronto - from 'natural causes', naturally....
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Pro-Constitution. LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Big surprise, huh? Looking at posts from 2006-2007 jetboy writes like an autistic teenager. 100% troll
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 15,394 Likes: 28
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 15,394 Likes: 28 |
Flyin airplanes and African safaris has got to be hard on a man
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,026
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,026 |
Flyin airplanes and African safaris has got to be hard on a man I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily hard.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,966 Likes: 1
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I have a question for the libtards on 24hr.....
What about the claimed value of Hunter Bidens "artwork"
Couldn't that be brought as a civil trial ? If he overvalued the artwork to get favorable loans, then he should be prosecuted. But he didn’t. Trump knowingly lied about the size of his condo, which is Illegal! If it wasnt, he’s CPA wouldn’t have had to stand before the courts and then lie about it, and then later be forced to negotiate a plea because he perjured himself? If what he’s done is perfectly legal, tell the truth and be upfront about it. But he and his lawyers, CPA’s etc can’t, because they know what he’s done is unlawful. From someone that doesn't do real estate, that's clear. Financial institutions don't loan $$'s based on what the seller/owner says it is worth. Your right. They loan for many reason, one being the borrower stating what their income, net worth, etc is. If I had my CPA draw up documents that I know are fraudulent, that overstated my income, the value of my home, etc, in order to receive a loan I otherwise would not be able to get, that would be committing load fraud. That is exactly what Trump did. He is not innocent. You are so far over your head it is a little embarrassing to watch you. He did not get a loan he couldn't have otherwise. There were no injured parties. There were no complaints brought by any involved parties. This prosecutor looked at Trump and said I am going to find something to prosecute him for. She said that publicly, "I will get Trump". That is not how the justice system is supposed to work. Now it is glaringly obvious you don't have any experience in business or real estate. But I guarantee if a federal prosecutor got a hard on for you, you would be toast. He or she would find something to crucify you over and your would be done. Remove yourself from you default emotive state and think about it that way. Because that is all this is. A prosecutor with an ax to grind and someone else funding the project went after Trump because they didn't like him. For your benefit, I hope you never experience this because it is pretty crappy situation to be in. And it is unwinnable for most. I fully believe Trump will ultimately prevail on appeal because of the ludicrousness of some of the prosecution's claims alone. But what it is going to take to get there is unfathomable. And would definitely break most people.
Montana MOFO
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