Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Maybe we obsess too much

There has been quite a discussion up in the Gunwriter's forum about ES and SD. I was shooting some ladders with different powders for a 6.5 Creedmoor with 143ELD-X and I found these results interesting. While not statistically significant by any means, the following were shot at 300 yards with a range of 1.5 grains in charge weight and just over 100fps variance in velocity.


Do you think we worry about a tenth of a grain in charge weight a little too much?
Both H4831SC and Superformance will get more load development. The other 2 powders were StaBall 6.5 and IMR4350 which each gave groups of about 6 inches with the shots landing closer to POA as the velocity increased and showed no significant nodes.

Note that this rifle exceeds max velocity about 1 full grain under Hodgdon's max charge weight so the top loads will be reduced.

For many purposes I would say yes. Here's a pic of a five round, 300 yard group I shot with one of my 308s using thrown charges of IMR 4064. Shot it with a 4x scope too.

From my short time of observations here, I think too many obsess over insisting things don't matter.

For those people, may they be forever blessed with only half sharpened hunting knives, and trucks stuck in limp mode......

If you can spend just a little more effort to build a cartridge that shoots more accurately, why not do it?

nature of the Beast!...

Totally agree but when+- a grain of powder yeilds sub MOA I'm not chasing that rabbit very far down the hole.

sub- moa can be 15/16 or 1/4 moa, your only gonna get out of it by how much you put into it.

Damn. I never realized that until just now.

I suppose it depends on what you intend to do with the rifle. Hand me that rifle and a handfull of those cartridges with mixed charges from 44-45.5 and I'll go forth and fill my freezer with venison without the least hesitation or concern.

Yes, that has been true since the beginning, but it won't ever stop. It's akin to searching for your four leaf clover while your car, with you in it, is sinking in 50 feet of water.

Or fretting over .002 of runout.

This is supposed to be about Big Game Rifles after all.

Stuck in limp mode, that sir is just pure evil!

That's a funny dynamic, the "hunting rifle", almost to the point of hilarity. I never quite understood why a "hunting rifle" is excused from being the best it can be, or why a mediocre rifle is even tolerated. Some really well known famous gun guy somewhere back in the day said only accurate rifles are interesting. I say only accurate rifles are worth having around. I personally enjoy the challenge, and crafting good and righteous ammo is just that, a craft.

Do I NEED that level of accuracy or precision to kill a deer or any other big game animal? Dude, I hunt with a long bow and cedar shafts, a flintlock and roundballs, a stable of Marlin lever guns, a couple of single action pistols.....and my precision bolt rifles.

Each platform has its own level of limitations and are well understood by me. That doesn't mean, oh well, it's just a flintlock I hunt with and it doesn't matter. No, it has the best barrel and lock I could afford when I built it, I use one type of powder and patch, and I cast my own roundballs, because I WANT to make it do the best it can do. Anything less is a failure of the challenge.

It's no different at the reloading bench. Over the decades I've learned what matters and what doesn't. It's not hard to make a rifle shoot worth a damn within its inherent limitations. Killing an animal is only the ending of the entire journey to get to that point. It's all about what you personally want to invest in it to get there. If I didn't enjoy making the firearms I own perform to their level best then I would just buy cheap factory ammo and call it a day. I would probably have to take up golf too, and bass fishing, and fooling with high maintenance wimmin, just to burn up my money and waste my time.

Yeah, that is pretty bad......

There are targets pinned to wall of my workshop with nice tight groups from plain hunting rifles. None of them were shot offhand.

That there is the most important thing right there. It's what YOU can live with. For a "hunting" rifle, I shoot for sub moa 5 shot groups. Sub moa for 10 shot groups is even better. What some guys don't get though, is you have to confirm those loads. A single 3 shot group doesn't tell you anything, except for maybe you got lucky.

Then the question will follow, "well then why do you shoot 3 shot groups at 400 yards???" Listen very carefully, that is a "confirmed" load. This load is one that I've checked with 5 and even 10 shot groups multiple times. That's why I know what it's going to do. "Well, why shoot 3 shots?". They ask. My answer: To conserve components dummy!!!! I know I'm not the only one that does this either. There is a damn ex camp perry guy here, that says he only shoots 2 shot groups, "because the first shot is the only one that matters"... You guys have heard that before too, right?

You have to do what makes you happy, but be smart about it. Make sure the load is consistent enough that you can trust it. If it's not, you are just pizzin in the wind. Literally.. Make sense?

Well said!!!

Many here try to apply benchrest loading techniques to a hunting rifle, they're not built to the specs of a benchrest rifle and won't respond to worrying over minutae. Keep it simple, most loading manuals list a most accurate load, my preference is the late Ken Waters Pet Loads, using these loads a lot of the leg work has already been done.

It's gotta be said.....

I would tend to think that in many cases it's just a hunting rifle, because in many cases people can't shoot worth a fu ck, because in many cases people buy a cheap dog shi t rifle and it won't shoot worth a fu ck no matter what, because in many cases people are just too damn lazy to understand the basic science of making a rifle shoot worth a fu ck.

Etc.....

It's just a hunting rifle saves a lot of faces in an alpha dog internet world.

LOL

At least a truck in limp mode throws an error code(s). If only rifles would do that.