Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire The death of a river

Good one, back when Flint Mich water was in the headlines I was curious...just to name a few...arsenic, lead, mercury, chromium (this county is rich in chromium deposits and not a heavy metal but we are also blessed with abundant asbestos). So the deposits are here, they are natural...that's the way it is, but what I didn't know, the silt and algae collect and sequester these minerals, and when the reservoirs were operating the water going downriver below the dams was cleaner than the water entering. But now, by disturbing the clay silt we are reintroducing the 60 to 100 year collection of nasties back into the water in a very short time span. The numbers are very high, we'll see what effect that may have on salmon rearing starting in April and then the big runs return in September. Peoples drinking water? Time will tell.

Where's the facepalm emoji when we need it, eh?

But soluble...that is the question. Lead is in bullets you shoot game with and eat...but you still eat the meat.

At least he did start a new thread.

The minerals I named are water soluble according to innanut.

What a horrible mess. Just turned all that slop loose into the river.

What is inannut?

Please post a link.

And I should say, soluble at the pH level of the river...not in a lab.

this breaks my heart. some of the best days of my youth were spent catching Steelhead just up river from the bridge in Orleans.

Seems like the dams:
1. Shouldn’t have been made in the first place.
2. Shouldn’t have been torn down once they were made and in place for as long as they have been.
3. Shouldn’t have been torn down in the manner they were (assuming they had to be torn down).

Considering the Toutle was hammered by up to 600 feet of sediments and at almost 44 years the fish are back I suspect Chicken Little had something to do with the reporting...

California needs water and power.

Where will they get it?

Unicorns.

And Rainbows.

BMT

Well, I guess that could work in some different reality.

Its California, doesn't that count?

Why were these dams built in the first place? May I assume hydroelectric was part of it? If so, it seems pretty foolish to get rid of them.

I know, "foolish" is California's go-to play.

I watched a tv documentary a while back and learned something new as always. What happens is if salmon make it through dams via fish ladders, they can make it to their destination to lay their eggs. When the hatched salmon start downstream they enter these large bodies of waters (dams) and are eaten by the larger fish with a very low survival rate. It seems most times mankind alters things , there comes a price. I was against the dam removals since they provided some value. I think there could have been a compromise but I’m not educated enough to make those decisions. I think the biggest culprit is Gov Newsome as he is all about pleasing victims groups . There will things learned from this, good and bad. Flintlocke, I’m very impressed with your gathering of knowledge. You are a great asset to the Fire and mankind. Cheers, Alan

In the real world, no.

But on a happy note your great great grandchildren will probably be able to buy some nice land.

I’m not a radical environmentalist but I do know that Mother Nature has a unique ability to overcome the mess that we create. The dams were a huge contributing factor in the destruction of our historic runs of salmon and steelhead.

The Elwah might not be an apples to apples comparison but it is a great example of how much the “ex-spurts” DON’T know! The same arguments were made before the Elwah came down and they said the very same thing about fish recovery but what the Elwah did prove was that not only are the ex-spurts absolutely clueless regarding the ability of fish to temporarily “adapt” to unfavorable river conditions but how fast the river itself was able to rehabilitate itself. The amount of information that came out of the Elwah removal is staggering, the amount of information that the “scientists”… aka professional bullshit purveyors don’t know is equally as staggering. The ability of the fish to survive in rivers, like the Elwa with high sedimentation surprised everyone.

The river will remediate the abortion that man and greed created, the fish will recover in time and all the naysayers and doom and gloomers will be deafeningly quiet. If the choice is between continuing to kick the can down the road while the fish and habitat suffers simply because the bullshit purveyors don’t “think” it’ll work and/or it’s far easier to do nothing than to fix this mess or to ignore the bullshit purveyors and remove the biggest impediments to fish recovery then the choice is EASY…..ignore the bullshit artists.

If the “scientists” were half as smart as they think and tell everyone they are we would not even be having this conversation but their abject failures over decades has led to these drastic measures today! I’ve watched the dumbfucks with their cushy government “biologist” job manage our fish and game into virtual extinction, at least compared to the pre-hydro days. I have less than ZERO faith in the scientific community and anyone with more than 2 brain cells bumping around upstairs knows how pathetically biased and agenda driven that collection of dumbfucks are.

We will NEVER recover our runs until we recover our habitat! Overfishing cannot even enter the debate UNTIL we have suitable habitat for the fish to return to! There’s a large segment of “ex-spurts” within the tribes and the “scientific community” and the commercial fishing industry that have come to the foregone conclusion that wild fish are all but extirpated and hatchery fish are the future, I don’t agree but I do know for a FACT that without habitat we’re all fighting to be the guy that caught the last fish.

My comments are NOT directed at anyone specific and are based on 45+ years of fishing in a state that has managed our fish into a state of oblivion….the total destruction of what were once jaw dropping runs with huge fish are all but gone and that’s all thanks to the scientific experts. If I sound angry and dubious of “scientific” experts it’s probably because I AM! If I give them impression that I don’t trust the bullshit artists in the “scientific community” that have hidden behind “science” while ignoring the facts…it’s because I am!

Anyone that has been awake for the last 50+++ years while “science” has been mandating whatever political agenda they’ve been ordered to follow AND they still trust the “scientific establishment” should be automatically relegated to the imbecile category. The cult of scientific ignorance has wrought destruction on virtually every facet of our modern life…from the vehicles we drive to the stoves we can buy NONE of it is based on “science” but rather it’s based on MONEY, POWER and POLITICS!

Not with science. It works the same.

Give it a bit, gonna be bad for awhile.

Northcoast rivers are notorious for extremely high turbidity levels during the rainy season, due to the local geology. Granted the dam removal in the manner used might not have been optimal and the high turbidity levels may impact the fish for awhile, the fish will likely recover in time. Besides the dams, and their removal, there are other issues the fish will have to deal with, as they have for over a century.

I fully expect there to be spawning runs back up above where the dams existed in just a couple of years.

Interesting in that I haven't seen mention of the effect of all that sediment on the estuary, the mouth of, and the immediate ocean area near the Klamath. Probably be some changes there for a bit too.