Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles How many rounds will a $400 AR-15 last?

Cool video
Intersting they discuss barrel death at 5K. AMU changes match barrels out at 2500 rounds last I heard still. Because they have seen a QUALITY barrel die at 3000/3500 rounds.

Which is pretty typical for us when we shot buttoned barrels. 3500-4500 was about all you could get.

Also pretty typical death, buttoned tubes seemed to be fine and then horrible. Good cut tubes just faded away.

All in all for what you spend vs what you get.. its up to the purchaser.

And how many will run full auto or get into combat anyway. At that point there are other issues IMHO. And it may be that picking up other guns laying around isn't a bad thing...

As I've been saying, they figured the AR thing out some years ago. CNC type auto stuff makes stuff so good that it just doesn't take much to have a basically MOA gun that will last just fine for most peoples uses.

Good test.

Looking at the cracking in the barrel, it seemed pretty obvious that heat killed it. That and it seemed to have a lot of copper. I wonder how long it would've gone with more frequent cleaning?

It would've been neat if they air-gauged the barrel.

Thanks for posting.

Truth is very few people will ever fire enough rounds to shoot the barrel of a PSA.

If you do, time to buy something better.

I think they last a hell of a lot longer than most buyers interest in that gun does. Bought a dpms Oracle for $500 when that was the going rate years ago. Sighted in a red dot on the rec. As well as a laser on the picatinied gas block. Probably put 250 -300 rds thru it checking function and reliability. With those sights it is my house gun. Last forever , simply does not get the volume of rds thru it my scoped ar does that I use for varmints and such. As simple as Lay's potatoe chips can't have just 1..mb you know I wouldn't chit you.

I feel like this was GT's way of telling people "you have no excuse" when it comes to arming yourself for self defense/SHTF/whatever.

He's rather "based" as the kids say and seems to believe that conflict is coming of some sort. A 300 dollar roscoe is more than enough so the old saw about "I can't afford one worth having" doesn't really apply. Get one so the numbers swell.

I'd like to see him do the same test with the PSA premium kit with their FN double chrome lined barrel and their premium BCG.

Not at all surprised they managed to cook that barrel so quickly, given the rate of fire. All that heat certainly affects the innards of the action as well. I doubt that barrel was hammer-forged; if so, I don’t recall them saying so. I skipped around some, so if they did any cleaning or lubing, I missed it.

Just looked, and Bear Creek, which has its own hammer-forging machine, offers uppers with nitrided, H-F barrels pretty cheaply. One of those should last a long time under normal conditions. My upper is 416R SS, no doubt button-rifled, but I won’t ever get it anywhere near that hot. Rifle-length gas system is supposed to help things inside stay cooler too, according to the video. Learned a good bit from that Asian guy; stuff to watch out for.

Been watching a lot of similar videos. Point seems to be that you can get a decent rifle for not a whole lot of money, but it pays to check the details for stuff that might’ve slipped through, like staking, loose screws, etc. Even spendier ones can have those issues.

I'm a little bit surprised at the barrel/accuracy holding up that long, considering full auto at times. But otherwise, I hold the belief that any auto that passes a good visual & function check, runs 100% for the first few hundred is good to go for the long run for the average shooter.

Those guys fired in the neighborhood of 3500 bucks worth of ammo. Average Joe won't.

Now at 20k rounds through a Colt A1 1:7 twist 11.5" blaster. Purchased as a LE takeoff after some indeterminate number of rounds.

Anyway, first 12k used a Colt bolt, rest with a FN bolt. Carrier is fine, rails shiny but no asymetric wear. Both bolts are still in service, no sign of cracks. Two extractor hooks broken over 25k (sometimes used bolts in another upper). Definitely not undergassed as in the vid. Replaced rings on the Colt bolt around 10k, haven't done the FN. As for the CMP-stamped barrel, Teslong pics are worse......OK, much, much worse........than those in the vid. Rifling barely even visible first 5" or so, gas port looks like grand canyon, etc.

By pure coincidence I'd treated it about the same as Garandthumb in the vid. 3-4 mag dumps followed by cooling period. 95% or more was FA.

Occasionally tested for accuracy using IVI or LC M855. Through over 10k it held to 5 shots in 4-5" at 100 yds (with irons......I'm old). At that point it went to a shoot and the volunteers got to run that upper with consecutivve mag dumps......probably ten or so before it was benched for handguards too hot to hold. After than occasion it abruptly became a 12 MOA blaster. Which is still OK by me.

Not content, did the Kroil/Paste alternating with Patch-Out soaks. As in 3-4 cycles. At the range it again went into 4-5". To be fair, it fouls up pretty fast now. Whatever have a local shoot in May, and that upper will be attending.

I have noticed - A LOT of youtube types with access to FA weapons. I need some too.

One of the top line names in custom AR rifles for competition sent out a top notch not cheap rifle upper to a friend. Would not shoot. Barrel nut was so that you could unscrew with your fingers.

it happens to all.

So yes, check everything you get. There will always be lemons for any number of reasons.

Obviously the cheaper the Item the higher the odds of an issue. But these days it almost all works.

When you keep saying "I get it, I get it"... you don't get it.

So.... what exactly was this upper anyway? What kind of bolt is in it? What kind of barrel? Is any of it nitrided or hard chromed? Just plain steel? As far as I could find, they NEVER said. And to take all the measurements AFTER shooting, and none before makes the measurements mean NOTHING.

The barrel was a copper mine.


I would like to see it cleaned ,
gas rings cost a few cents, an idiot could replace them.
Do that too.

Let's see what happens then.
Everyone talks Colt, FN, Knight.
How about we really treat the PSA like a military gun would be treated.
Not likely to fire 3k rounds without cleaning.
Pretty certain if the gas rings fail the test, they would be replaced.


There was a bit of value in the test, but it deserves a cleaning before the barrel is
declared toast. Gas rings if it needs them. $10 in parts and supplies would likely
have it back in business.

If it was a $3k dollar gun, it probably would have been mechanically better.
They wouldn't have proclaimed a MK12 toast without cleaning it.

So I'll never wear one out with the demands I put on a rifle, along with a little lube, good to know.

I did skip through the video as the frantic speed talking is distracting..

Informative video!

Which is the point of the video IMO. Not to compare it or to see how long one could make it last. Basically - 300 bucks gets you a serviceable AR for home defense and training.

There really is no excuse for anyone wanting an AR “that works” not to have one. Even snobs like me that love colt and fn chromed barrels and $300 BCG’s might want one of these just to keep in the trunk of your Tesla while shopping down town.

Thats a [bleep] slap... Tesla.....
FWIW we haven't owned a car since the wife wanted to play with a Mustang around 94... I don't see us ever owning a car period again. YMMV.What I took away is that if you can abuse an upper like that and it makes 3000 rounds, its good enough for most people. Yes it could have been done differently. But then again we have shot barrels to the almost 5000 round mark without cleaning too just to watch accuracy on good barrels. Yes the upper got wiped now and then and the bolt re lubed. But those barrels did not degrade so they evidently are better barrels.

I've noted life depends on lots of factors. Cleaning the barrel is one that just tends not to make enough difference UNLESS you get bad spots of carbon fouling.

After seeing one of PSA’s double chrome lined FN barrel’s do a pretty decent job as a GP gun, I started ordering a few parts here and there. Finally found an H&R chrome lined upper from them for $369 so I bought it and after running a few hundred rounds through it, it now lives in my Tesla, uh, I mean Chevy monster truck. 🤓

The upper in the video was severely over gassed but it was assembled right and stayed together. I’m not sure how far the groups were shot at but the accuracy was acceptable.

Unless you get a custom barrel most barrels are overpassed IMHO>. Built to work period so no one has issues. I get that. But I'd rather it be under gassed and I can open that port as needed with bits. But that isn't for everyone..

nice to have a deep pocket sponsor. lol Good info though.

I have a newbie question. If say your bolt cracks a lug, or your gas key fails, can you just replace either the bolt or BCG or do you need to check headspace in either or both cases as I suspect?

Deferring to your knowledge.

Was busy getting ready for work near the end, did I miss something. The only thing really bad in the borescope was fouling. Was the gator skin enough to destroy accuracy to that extent?


Another take.

$3-400 bought 3000 good rounds.

If one were to consider that upper well paid for(free at this point. A $300 barrel, $150 BCG, a few bucks for a gas tube…$500 and you now have a high quality upper. Phoenix rising from the ashes?

If they gauged the muzzle it's likely it's over sized.

It's a testament to what a good design the AR is.

Even a low budget, loose-spec'd upper like a PSA, maintained good accuracy and reliability through 5K rounds of hard use at mostly full auto, suppressed, and minimal lubing.

I haven't found a BCG/barrel extension combo yet that didn't achieve an acceptable headspace. I suppose it could happen, but isn't likely.

I have go/no go gauges and check headspace if a new bolt or barrel is installed. So far no problems. I think it's unlikely to be an issue but it's a little safer to check.

On the original question, I'd guess that most bargain AR-15's will run a long time if normal maintenance is done. At some point you'll need a new barrel or a bolt lug will crack, but that's probably at least 5000 rounds and maybe 10.000 depending on how it's used and what the user's accuracy requirements are. The cost of that much ammunition is far greater than the cost of the rifle, so I think it makes sense to get a better quality rifle but that's just me.

Thanks guys.

We need to remember that it wasn't always the case of buying cheap and it working out. I remember a DPMS 1000 round burn down that caught the hand guards on fire and melted the gas tube in to before it was done. But that didn't keep the bolt release I had from them from snapping in half. Then there was the Bushmaster commercial RE that snapped at the threads. I could go on with a few more things but it's nice to see PSA is procuring some decent parts and charging a great price on their stuff.

I need a youtube channel and an ammo sponsor like Mike has.

Carbon fouling can wreak things. Pressure and accuracy. Copper fouling not so much IMHO. Like not enough to make it look like a dead barrel.

Gator skin will always be there. Just gets worse.

We polished our barrels now and again with diamond paste. To try to smooth out the throat area. Fire lapping would be about the same too. Never got that far.

But for the most part there wasn't a lot of difference between often cleaned barrels and not so often when talking accuracy or barrel life that I could ever tell.

Carbon fouling is hygroscopic and will pit your barrel if you don't at least put a coat of oil on it.

For me, that video proves nobody should be without an AR. No excuse not to have one. I know some people and family members who have plenty of dough, and are just too cheap to buy a rifle to defend themselves and their families. IMHO, there is just NO excuse not to own one. I think that rifle would have lasted a lot more rounds, had it not been getting beat that hard.

Well it certainly shows that someone that wants one or feels they need one, needn’t wait until they can pony up for a DD or other boutique model. The basic design is sound and given decent parts, not necessarily exotic ones, and a little lube now and then, they run.

My first, a mid-level from a major manufacturer, was disappointing, partly due to my ignorance about the various configurations available, but also due to its mediocre accuracy. One thing I’ve found with Bear Creek and PSA is that they offer a tremendous variety of options, which increases the chances of getting what you want from the start instead of having to buy something that requires parts swapping to get there.

At some point I want to get a piston upper, either an Adams or the Brownells. It seems the trend in military rifles is towards pistons, and there are definitely advantages for hard use as well as stocking options. Meanwhile, I’m very happy so far with my economy models with BC uppers on a PSA lower. They certainly shoot well.

The thing that bothers me the most I think. Is that you can buy assembled ones cheaper than the parts. They are so easy to build a monkey could... and getting exactly what you want is often totally impossible unless you part it together. Especially kids rifles... they like to mix colors etc...

BUT Iv'e gotten past some of that and just buy whats close and call it good. Even if it has bells I don't need or want.

Pistons. Since the early 80s I've had gas ARs. I've never had any issue that would drive me to a piston. I have pistons in other guns. Just don't see any place for the real need. So far.

I haven’t been at this long enough to know much, but I’m learning. That BC I bought had everything I wanted, heavy 20” SS Wilde, rifle-length gas tube, side-charger, and enough rail and slots but not too many.

Those pistons draw me for their simplicity and cool, clean running. That might be more of a theoretical advantage than real for me, but we all have our fantasies🤔 The BRN-180 allows for a folding stock which might actually be a real benefit.

There are ways to do a folding stock on a traditional DI AR tho.

But can they be fired when folded?

Besides, that BRN-180 just looks badass….

No - not fired when folded.

I've never encountered a "shot out" ar-15 barrel in 5.56. Some friends say they've had competition guns where the groups open unacceptably and they replace them, but they are thousands of rounds into them.

Also, in a SHTF scenario, I'm going to use what ever is available, as long as it is available, until something better comes along.

Truth is in an EOTWAWKI event, any of us will be lucky to be around long enough to shoot out an AR barrel.

And finally, if you're not sitting on enough ammo to shoot your barrel out, then this isn't relevant to you anyway.

3,000 rounds per 5.56 rifle/barrel (you can stockpile barrels as well) seems a good target.

I gotta go, I'm behind on reloading by my own account.

Aw, yes remember the Daewoo's?

Ever tried a Robinson?

Had one early on.

Seems these are the basis for the current SIGs.

Until recently, I wasn't sure the piston AR thing was all ironed out, now there seem to be a few good choices.

That said, DI guns run just fine.

I'd still like to snag a folder though.

biggest weakness on Robinson I had led to locking lug battering. Gas block was not anchored good enough. Went down the road. My folding stock AKs are still going great.

He's not wrong.

AND - if that's the case, you're likely in a space where you can "collect" another upper if needed. Me? I'll be looking for certain lowers...

All good insights.

My wife always comments when watching westerns or shoot 'em up movies, "Why didn't they pick up the bad guys' guns? Either as a back up to their guns or to throw in the river so no more bad guys will get them?"

When I was a young man the SNCOs from Special Forces at Bragg would tell me, "LT, you have to have the ability to pick up any weapon on the battle field and run it until someone on the wrong side of the fight dies to give you their better weapon."

That's led to a life of buy-sell-trade just to get familiar with the pros and cons of different weapon systems.

Hope the day doesn't come where I have to use that knowledge, but I see it in the future.

As they say, "Pray if you want, but there came a point where David had to pick up a stone and deal with Goliath."

It's funny, they talk about how you can't expect any bolt to last 5000 rounds without having to change extractors or springs, or whatever, and how this bolt actually held up pretty well...but then he complains about the gas seal problems (to which the "Asian guy" says a new gas tube and set of rings would fix right up). Changing an extractor at this point is considered S.O.P. (even on the Gucci guns), yet this extractor is fine, and somehow having to change rings and a gas tube is not really acceptable...

And the barrel... He complains about an accuracy loss after several thousand rounds (full auto) and proclaims it "done". No cleaning, and no investigation into any other possible reasons for this accuracy loss. Perhaps something had gotten loose or out of whack, who knows. And the "Asian guy" looks down the bore, and by golly, it don't look bad....

And at the end, after the gun is "done", it's still shooting! Only the occasional hiccup, which was deemed easily fixable. And while accuracy was way down (for whatever reason), I bet you could still get good hits with it at normal combat ranges! But... this gun was deemed utterly unacceptable for anyone who is "serious about shooting". Holy crap. And he lets slip the little chuckle when talking about someone who doesn't have much money to spend on a rifle. What a snobby ass wipe.

These guys make a lot of money off YouTube. And yes, I find most of them a little snobby.

Lucky Gunner, in their testing considered a barrel "done" when it started to keyhole. To me, that's a more objective measure of "done".

As for a bolt lasting 5k rounds, Army rates life of a bolt body at 30K rounds in the rife gassedM16a1/a2. I'm not sure what it is in the carbine gassed M4.

The article of the Vegas Machine gun shoot guys claimed they typically got 60K to 100K rounds out of a bolt body, and sometime even more.

What part are you referring to when you say ‘bolt body’? Are you talking about the bolt or the bolt carrier?

Just the bolt itself, excluding the extractor, ejector, associated springs and gas rings.

Some time ago I read an account from a former army armorer who said he was in service while M4's were not yet universal, and they were still using M16 rifles along side of the M4's. After so many tens of thousands of rounds (I don't remember how many it was now), he said replacing broken bolts was common for their M4's. But it was a problem that was almost unheard of in the full length rifles.

The carbine gas system was hard on bolts but mainly hard on extractor springs and extractors. It was several years before the army let Colt put a heavier extractor spring in there or even add the O-ring. They also came up with a better extractor and basically were allowed to fine tune the system. We all benefited from that. When is the last time you saw a blue insert in the extractor spring?

I remember firing a 20” rifle after shooting carbines for years. I thought I had a squib load there was so much difference. M-16’s are as smooth as it gets.

As for the video, he’s an influencer. He gets paid well even if it’s just ammo and products.

I think it’s pretty well accepted that longer gas systems run somewhat cooler, and certainly heat plays a role in how parts wear, lube is “consumed”, maybe even affects the temper of metal, including springs. My current upper is rifle length and it seems to run smoother, with less buffer “sproing” than my previous mid-length, but something else may be involved. At any rate, it runs very smoothly. I suspect that the piston guns are easier on action parts as well, besides running cleaner (inside the receiver anyway).

This low cost upper functioned well enough that for the largest part of the gun buying crowd it would meet their needs.

This is exactly the kind of gun to have to leave in the ranch truck, or in the tractor for day to day functionality, without feeling bad about lack of care, or possibly losing it to theft. I've probably shot half as much out of the truck at targets of opportunity as international hunting scenarios, and appreciate a functional, decently accurate beater. Add a PSA red dot or low power scope and call it good.

I’ve got an 18” barrel with rifle gas and it’s certainly smoother than my 16” carbine gassed gun but the difference is not as drastic as it was back in the day. Buffers and springs help as well as properly sized gas ports. Back when I was shooting several Bushmaster carbines and a few other brands, they were terrible. Large ports and carbine buffers were really hard on parts.

Piston guns seem to have their own set of problems as well as not being as accurate as DI. But given a short barrel running suppressed in FA, HK seems to be the answer.

I find that mid-length gas is quite a bit smoother than carbine length. You can get mid-length gas in any length barrel that's not an SBR, although not in all brands. Rifle length is even smoother.

I've had barrels that were still shooting quite accurately after more than 5000 rounds. These were good quality barrels that I shot in matches, so they got pretty hot at times.

There are 12.5" mid-gas barrels out there too.

Pappy,
You are at least 10 years behind the curve.
The piston gun thing was all the rage. Most manufacturers, and all their shills in the gun rags were all in on piston guns. Some only made piston guns.

It ran its coarse, now you gotta look a little to find one.


The Gucci issue guns from FN or HK that use pistons?
They came out of that Era.
The unanswerable question... are pistons the reason for their reputations?
Or, are pistons and timing what got them attention?


The Marines are all in on their HKs, the ground pounders or the brass?

For me, pistons don't bring anything worth the $$$.

Hopefully, I don't get a screaming deal on a SCAR or 416!😉
Like half price.

There were a lot of problems induced by rate of fire in M4/M4A1 stuff I dealt with, that’ll likely never be a factor for semi-only rigs. There are also so many options in barrel/bolt construction, that longevity varies wildly. Regardless, the point of this and the comments about ammo/volume are spot on: 95% of AR owners have never and will never, own enough ammo to shoot anything out…..much less actually do the shooting it takes. Spare uppers/barrels/bolts are so easy to keep on hand that it doesn’t matter if you do shoot super high volume. Lowers can last forever. The whole ‘gun LEGO’ design is what makes an AR hard to compete with for almost any other choice for the same uses.

I dunno, I see a fair number of YT videos on them, one each recently by Honest Outlaw and Mrgunsngear, who aren’t shills, on the Adams P2, both very positive. Adams has fixed the issues with their original version, mainly carrier tilt. The .300BO pistol Mike tested is perhaps the most accurate .300 he’s ever tested. The Adams and the BRN-180 are affordable, and apparently reliable. The gas has to go somewhere of course, and the handrails can get pretty hot and dirty during extended fire, but better there than in one’s face, especially when suppressed.

It’ll be a while before I get either as the smoke is still clearing from the two side-chargers I bought. My new lower with an SSA-E trigger lands tomorrow.

I wonder tho - 5k rounds is about 2200 bucks in ammo if you're getting PPU 55gr FMJ. Cheap stuff. Would it be hard to spend 2200 over 6 months to squirrel away 5k rounds of 556 for most here? Not talking specifically about the video or the 5% left over.

Add another 900 for 5k rounds of 9mm ball - and you're on 10k rounds of the 2 most common SHTF cartridges for defense of home and hearth.

Glock or M&P for little money, AR for little money - no reason why you can't be the biggest warlord on your block when it goes bad for 5-6k.

I’m too old and creaky to be a “warlord”, have to settle for “gimpy minion”.

Same and there's too many people out there sitting on 5 AR's, 10k ammo but only have 6 total magazines.... Gonna have Grandma Sarah (a Jayhawker, anything from Missouri has a taint about it) sitting by the fire loading for them.

$500/1000 for 5.56 and $265/1000 for 9mm - brass,new.

$425 per 1K for the 556 HERE - PPU
$175 per 1K for 9mm HERE - ball

Both are brass cased.

This.

I tell everyone 1,000 rounds of ammo per pistol and 10 standard mags per pistol.

Rifles? 30 mags and 3,000 rounds.

'Cause you gotta have lotsa loaded mags to be in the fight.

Speaking of grandmas, the KELTEC PMR30 is a great grandma gun with appropriate ammo. Hits hard enough to make an impression, easy enough to rack the slide and to shoot to keep grandma in the game long enough to prevail.

Your mileage may vary.

And a way to carry them. Lots of people cracking about Larpers with their chest rigs but damn, 8 magazines on your chest, 1 in the gun and 2-4 on the waist is a lot better than 1 in the gun and 1 in a pocket of your cargo shorts.

Dang it! if things get that sporty here in rural Ky. I'm movin to St. Louie or Chi town.

I know, the only time you can have too much ammo is if you're swimming or on fire, but.......

It was an interesting video.

Looks like the vast majority of rounds were fired full auto. Add in a suppressor and that schedule was brutal and nothing 99% of shooters would ever be able to do.

Even the rental M-16s at the local indoor range are not abused that hard.

The barrel was fouled out, not shot out. A little gator skin won't hurt much but all that carbon and copper is a real problem.

The Huxwork Flow suppressor is notorious for fouling build up and that could have been causing the accuracy issues.

Interesting. Why? Intuitively I'd think the glass flow would cause havoc on the suppressor rather than feeding that gas carrying the carbon back into the rifle? Comparing suppressed v suppressed.

I suspect a muzzle bore diameter gauge would prove you wrong.

LOL.

Show the class a picture of a "muzzle bore diameter gauge".

I have Deltronic pins in .0001 steps to measure muzzle diameters.

I might have a bit better handle on how barrels die than average.

2 parts.

The Huxworks Flow has small channels for the gas flow and it's recommended to clean the suppressor every 2 thousand rounds.

Suppressors in general drive more fouling back into the barrel causing fouling in both the barrel and action to build up faster.

The HW Flow is better than most suppressors for less build up in the barrel and action but worse than most for fouling build up in the suppressor. It's a complicated design that requires 3D printing to manufacture.

Soaking in CLR seems to do a good job removing fouling so it's not a bad problem but GT was not cleaning anything and that was a pretty hard test of the suppressor.

I would have loved to test the sound level at shooters ear and muzzle before and after his run and see how much weight the can picked up in carbon fouling.

The Flow was a good choice for this test as a high back pressure can would have cause much greater issues. The guy (GT) is no dummy and he choose the Flow for a reason. Huxworks should be happy with the results.

Got it. That makes sense. I'm familiar with the Hux and the flow through ideas when I was shopping but never saw one cut to see the inside.

According to HuxWrx, he killed almost half the life of the can but you can do that when things are sent to you for free.

I bought mine thinking there was no way I'd shoot 20,000 rounds through mine on that SBR but now I'm shooting it on everything, hate to shoot unsuppressed. I need to buy another can.

And ammo or at least brass. Found 100 Lapua cases last night I had forgot I bought for my Montana but my bucket of IMI M193 brass is gonna keep me busy for awhile after checking prices on commercial brass. Bullets, primers and powder I'm good on.

And maybe a chest rig...

I think soaking in CLR every 2K or so will greatly extend the life cycle on the Flow.

Yes. A pin gauge of the proper diameter:

CLR the clacium, lime and rust remover?

Yes. Sold at walmart in the silver bottle.

Works like magic on carbon.

Is that delivered to your door?

The prices I quoted are for a local business I can walk in and carry out.

Keeping in mind: those of us here and ARFCOM, etc….fairly minor to super serious AR shooters, are only a drop in the bucket of AR owners, and while ‘we’ may buy, stockpile, and shoot thousands of rounds through them, the rest of that 95% never will.

I'm not crapping in the piston guns, for full auto, serious military use, they
do have advantages. And cons. And co$t.


Just saying that the advantages are overblown.
For serious operators.

Which means for me, they are nothing but academic.

Well no one would ever mistake me for an operator, the stick I lean on of late is a dead giveaway!😜

Right now, for the piston-curious, Adams Arms has a complete 16” upper available on backorder for $499.99, about half the regular price. Looked pretty hard at that, but am sticking to what I have for a while.

https://adamsarms.net/product/upper-p2-5-56-16-aars/

Last night I stumbled on the Blackout Defense boutique rifles. Wow! Definitely not $400….

https://blackoutdefense.com/product/quantum-dualtaperlock/

Piston guns?



They aren't piston, but I've seriously been thinking of buying a Sons of Liberty gun.

PSAs and a Rock River, I'd like to buy a highly regarded fighting gun.
Just to see what it offers over my scummy ars.

The Adams is a piston, that one the preferred P2. They also make conversion kits. Not sure if the kits are as good as the P2 or P3 guns. The P3 appears to be the same as the P2, but maybe with better parts.

The Blackout Defense is just a Gucci DI gun with lots of subtle, expensive tweaks. Mrgunsngear did a pretty complete review and it’s an impressive setup. Whether it’s worth the money to anyone is up to them. I’d like one for certain, but $2500 and up is a lot of money.

I like this guy for a gun review.
kwg