Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles AR10 vs bolt gun accuracy

Ok looking to add a 308 to my portfolio
Never had an ar10 before. How would its accuracy be compared to like a model 7 or Tikka?
If I go ar style which brand on the affordable side? PSA, Dpms bushmaster?
Thanks

I have owned 3 AR10's of various manufacture. They are ok, a loaded 20 rd mag weights in at 1 pound, the guns are usually heavy, having tried a few of them, shot a few pigs, deer, I would get something like a sig cross trax, lighter, more accurate. Its wonderful to tote a 10-12 pound rig, until it isn't.

Tikka's are amazing rifles and use Sako barrels, same factory, same barrel, different name. I have yet to shoot one that doesn't shoot MOA groups with quality ammo. They are one of the best deals in the bolt-gun world IMO. I have yet to shoot an AR 10 that shoots less than MOA. Most are 2 at best. Like Jimmy said, they are also heavy. I'm sure someone here can share a different story of a more accurate AR10.

I'd personally opt for a 6.5 creedmoor, if getting an AR10/AR308 type rifle. They are going to shoot better on average. You want one that keeps up with a Tikka? That can be done, but be prepared to spend some money. There are some gas guns that are great shooters. The one I have shoots consistent sub moa.

I bought a Ruger SFAR 308 a couple of weeks ago. Today was the 2nd range trip. The 1st one I didn't try for accuracy. Just tried hitting paper and to check for function.

I mounted a VX-2 3-9X40 on it; Most loads hovered around 2". I have some 155 gr Scenar's loaded that approach 1/2" groups from my Tikka or Winchester bolt guns. From the SFAR 3 shot groups were just a bit over 1". My Tikka put 3 shots into an inch or less with the other loads that were 2" from the SFAR.

It appears that with the right loads it is going to be very near 1 MOA, but unlike my bolt guns it appears to be very picky about loads it likes.

I was never interested in an AR10 in the past because of the weight. But the Ruger is much trimmer. My 308 SFAR is only 4-5 ounces heavier than the Ruger MPR AR-15 in 223.

Mine has the 20" barrel. Between range trips I ordered a thread protector and removed the muzzle brake. This took 1 1/2" off the overall length and almost 1/4 lb less weight. It splits the difference in length and weight now compared to the version they sell with a 16" barrel. With scope and mounts it's 8 3/4 lbs. Which is a lot better than most AR10's But my Tikka bolt gun is 7 lbs even and still more accurate.

Did it group better with the brake removed? I've read others grouping much better without the brake.

If those SFAR's shot really well, and were reliable, they would be a damn good option. I'm still waiting on the range report from Exchippy, on his Ruger. The lightweight and smaller frame is a cool concept. Like others are saying, the standard AR10's are pretty heavy.

I’m just thinking if this country keeps heading the way it is , I might want a 308. Common ammo, longer range than a 556 . I m leaning more to a model 7 , 600, or 788 mainly because I prefer bolts was just testing opinions here in the ar forum.
No i dont want a fricking 6.5 creed. Yes i know it seems ballistically better, softer recoil BUT in the event of an”event” 308 is way way more common ammo to find

It is very likely, if you had 2 identical rifles side by side, most guys would pick the 6.5 Creedmoor over the 308. If you decide to get a 308 bolt gun, it's going to be hard to beat a Tikka though. Looks like you are a Remington fan, I'm sorry.. I'd take a good model 70 over a Remington.

I actually love my tikka I have on 25-06 most accurate , fits pulls up great rifle I’ve ever had , I’ve had a model 7 before (a guy wanted it worse then me, one of those I shouldn’t have sold) I loved the compactness of it and very used tikka out there is priced as high or higher than new for some reason

after a 1 year round robin with 3 gas 308's, I still have the Tikka CTR 5 years latter IIRC, sad it is a 6.5 but I handload for it, the 129 grain SST over H4350 is my favorite these days. The CRT is heavy, but it is accurate. With AR10's, 2 MOA at best is what I was seeing with everything I tried, even handloads with all three of the gas guns I had, the SW was worse IIRC, it was the first one I tried. I mean every once in a while I would shoot a 1 MOA group that I could circle and brag about, and the bullets landed near POA, but heavy and so so accurate just did not do it for me. At least the Tikka CTR is accurate, and very consistent, it is delivers the same group in the same place, and its not terribly ammunition sensitive. I also have a Tikka LW compact my grandsons use, which I plan to give one of them who still likes to hunt, it in its LW form with an old conquest scope, it has outshot any 10-12 pound gas 308 I had tried. I am not the best shot out there but I am better than 2 MOA most days. This is why I am thinking about the sig cross trax, LW bolt 308, folding stock magazine fed. That is once I finish another 3 projects I am working on.

My son has a SFAR in .308. Initially was optimistic regarding accuracy but the last couple of times we have gone out, getting some horizontal stringing. His scope is a Vortex 1x8 Strike Eagle. Now I am wondering if it might be the scope. Going to put a different scope on and see if that makes a difference

Well, OK. But your goal should be to have a rifle in every available caliber.

There's a reason for that. I and a lot of others believe, that when you have a damn good shooting rifle, why give it up for a minimum price? I actually have a T3 (older than the T3X), and it is a known shooter. There's no guessing with that rifle. I've had guys offer me $800 for it. It's not for sale though. It's slightly upgraded with newer T3x parts. Also, the gripe about the ejection port being too small is stupid. I've never had a single issue with that. It may even add some rigidity to the receiver, which is never a bad thing, when considering a precision shooting rifle. My buddy has an older stainless T3 308 winchester as well, and that damn rifle is probably the best shooting 308 I've personally seen. It's the heavy barreled varmint version though. I prefer the lighter, Lite model, which is substantially lighter, and shoots almost as well.



However, if you keep an eye out, you may find one for a great deal. Good luck with your search!!! I don't shoot 308 win often, but the last time I had a centerfire out, that's what it was. A heavy barrel varmint model 70. That is a sweet shooter, but the lightweight Tikka shoots almost as well.

All that talk about how good the Tikka is, and then you want to get a pos Sig cross? Holy schidt.. I am in agreement about AR10 308w, that don't shoot that well. I finally sold mine off. It was a true 1.5-1.6 moa shooter, for 10 shots. Just didn't have a need or use for that kind of shooter. My S&W Performance center always shoots sub moa 10 shot groups. The damn thing hammers them way out there too. It almost keeps up with my CTR's. The downfall is it's heavy, as you said about your AR10. That is the nature of the beast. You start looking at a really lightweight AR10/AR308, and you are going to lose precision on that platform.

How do you know it isn't simply the challenge of squaring up the bolt face with chamber?
IMO, it is very hard to get a cartridge lined up after the casehead is tilted from an off camber bolt. The 308 is a hard cartridge to line up in a semi-auto.

I don't buy the lightweight explanation. Remember, AR15s shoot bughole groups.

The cross trax is 6.1 pounds, the attraction is the ability to take a larger magazine. The reviews have been good regards accuracy. The stock folds making it 26 inches long. If Tikka did something like this it would be my first choice

Your going to loose precision when you house a much bigger cartridge in a reduced size AR10, such as the Ruger SFAR. Mainly because you lose a certain amount of rigidity. The little 223/556 cartridge is nothing for the platform, but when you step up to a bigger cartridge, like the 308, you want/need all the rigidity you can get, to attain the most precision from that platform. Some guys get it, and others will learn the hard way..

If you have a real lightweight AR10, and it shoots bugholes, please post the targets up. I'd love to see them.

Can you do this with an AR10 at 100 yards with 10 shots, starting with a cold clean barrel?





Or maybe this? Offhand at 50 yards?

I had a 308 Rock River, would put bullets through the same hole, but it was very heavy

AR `s are dang accurate i don`t like the feel of them but they do shoot well , i also have a AR-1O bolt precision rifle in a 6.5 Creedmoor that will out shoot probably 95 % or more of regular bolt rifles it will shoot a hole at 100 yards 5 shot group. yes its ugly does not feel right to carry and a little heavy but it sure will preform well on a target. want is really strange to me about a AR is two pins and the barrel comes off for easy cleaning goes right back on and still shoots same point of impact.

digital dan, nice shooting, never owned an AR10 that would shoot that good, what rifle is that?

His posts are becoming more and more ridiculous. I doubt he shot it with an AR10. Nice group, other than the flier though. It would be cool if he would shoot the black rifle challenge here, just to see if his rifle is even MOA or better on a consistent basis. That is a real test for most rifles and shooters. I look forward to hearing his response as well, as some of his short posts don't make much sense these days.

"AR10 vs. Bolt gun accuracy", as the thread title states.

How many guys have really answered that question? Here's a great comparison, for those wanting to follow along. Actually shooting both side by side at different ranges, just to throw that in. 10 shot groups posted for this comparison, to make it as fair as possible. As I know some guys like MikeS will ask, "why did you only shoot 3 in the group". While others like rost will admit, that he only shoots 2 shots anymore. We all know it's the first shot that counts anyway, but that's not what the OP wants to know.

So, here's the best way I can show a comparison. Based off of my own experience.

AR10 at 100 yards:





AR10 shot at 500 yards


Group size 4 9/16" center to center. (.872 MOA)
Score: 100-9X

Picture of AR10:



Bolt action at 100 yards:

Best groups shot to date with that rifle, but have not bothered to shoot many 10 shot groups with it, since that day. The rifle is a known shooter and highly competitive for the shoots I do, when I'm not shooting my Mcmillan A3 edge stocked CTR, loaded with the 147 ELDM.

Here's a pic of this rifle and how it's scoped now:


Same bolt action rifle shot at 500 yards, for group size and score. Target: 1000 yard F-class repair center. Sports same dimensions as the 500 yard NRA target. X ring roughly 5" diameter:


Group size: 3.5" center to center. (.669 MOA for 10 shots)
Score: 100-8X
Rifle: Tikka CTR.
Optic at the time: NF SHV 5-20X56 with MOAR reticle.

Note:
Both the AR10 and Bolt action were shot on the same day, at the 500 yard target. Conditions were crappy for visibility, as we were under a stagnant air advisory. However because of this, the wind was at a bare minimum:


Both rifles were shot from the prone position.

Moral of the story with this comparison:

1. AR10 shoots around .8 moa for 10 shots consistently. Targets also posted in black rifle challenge here.
2. Precision bolt action, shoots around .3-.6 moa consistently for 10 shots

This is not a comparison of a lightweight hunting rifle to a heavy azzed AR10, but a good comparison of a fairly heavy AR10, vs a fairly heavy bolt action rifle. Both shooting in the same conditions and at the same distances, with same/same optics, and ammo.. Others that have similar comparisons, should chime in. Also, as you can see, that a heavy azzed AR10, such as the Performance Center I have posted, would stomp a lightweight Tikka into a mud hole, on a daily basis. Not that there's anything wrong with the superlite or Lite model, but they are not a precision rifle. Their intended purpose is as a nice well balanced lightweight hunting rifle.

There were only 2 Tikka superlites posted in the MOA All Day Long challenge here, and the one I posted shot a little better than Harring's. I believe his hovered right around moa, which is pretty good for these rifles, for that type of shooting.

I doubt the ruger sfar will be anywhere close to .8 MOA with even 5 rounds, I need to look into glass bedding the chamber area of my CTR and getting a higher magnification scope, the NF 2.5 x 10 is OK but not enough for my eyes.

I've never seen an AR10 equal a bolt rifle in accuracy.

That said a good AR15 and a good bolt 223 will shoot close. But a bolt version will generally outshoot a semi.

David tried like heck with the SR25 platform and finally ended up with the T2K. Says a lot IMHO.

OTOH most AR10 shoot well enough for most peoples skills.
I can say I've never seen an AR10 dump em all in a ragged tight hole consistently. I've never owned one. But I do have one stripped lower and now a complete lower waiting on me so the day may still come that I play... Kind of bought the last complete lower to play with some form of 22-250ish... maybe even something like 22/6mm if the thing would fit...

In my limited experience (about eight AR10 through my hands), an AR10's accuracy is all or mostly about the barrel. If you get a barrel made by a competent smith from Kreiger, Bartlein, or Proof Research blank, they usually shoot sub MOA. Other parts can play a role too, but as long as they are from reputable known manufactures they are usually not so different. That said, it is not easy to find an AR10 (308) that consistently shoots 0.5 MOA with handholds tuned to the gun. My best experiences are with Proof barrels and an old Gen 1 Rainier Ultramatch barrel made from Shilen blank by WOA. This rifle shoots consistently 0.5-1 MOA with handload using Hornady 178gr ELD-M.

AR 15's get heavy fast. AR10's start off far too heavy. Way too cumbersome and clumsy for hunting or anything else. Tikka's are great. My CZ550 6.5x55 once shot 5 into an 1 5/8" at 300 yards with handloads and 24x dot. I have two Tikka based target rifles that might do it but never tried. Very slick actions for rapid fire and very good triggers.

Maybe I'm not remembering correctly but wasn't Pat's GAP that won the 20 shot challenge an AR-10 type?

There could have been that anomaly. I think I recall a strange one in that 20 shot challenge.

I just have not seen AR10s that are really good shooters. Doesn't mean they don't shoot good.

Barrels are always the most important part IMHO. Of course they have to be done correctly but even a rough job on a top barrel tends to shoot better than a top job on a sub par tube.

These days on the small end AR15 though, it just simply doesn't take much to make MOA. It has always taken a top tube to make really small groups though.

My ar-10t is very accurate. Doesn't even come close to what my m700 police model will do both 308. One only has to look at what benchresters use for actions to understand they use the best they can.get. When is the last time you heard of a BR comp where a semi or falling block single kicked everyone's ass? Just saying those facts stand on their own merit..mb

Pretty much all I hunt with is an AR10 for the past several years.

It's accurate. And fast. I'm somewhere in the slightly above MOA category with mine.

But that's not why I have one or use one. A bolt in .308 will probably be more accurate, but again, that's not why I shoot and hunt with an AR10.

I have it because I can put many accurate rounds on living, multiple targets without having to work the bolt or reload. It's the nature of the beast, and why I hunt with it.

There are AR10's that come REAL close to bolt gun accuracy, but they are too weighty for what I use them for.