Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Border patrol helicopter down

Helicopter was a UH-72, an Apache had crashed in that same proximity previously.

they found a video on tik tok showing cartel members watching the chopper crash and say hope you rot in hell and they laughed

From a video of an eyewitness, it sounds like there was a tail rotor issue. The man said the copter was spinning rapidly and falling straight down. Eyewitnesses are notoriously mistaken about what they've seen, but the crash photo does appear to have been a vertical impact with the craft horizontal. "Belly first" in other words.

The original post says that a buddy said that it looked like an Apache. That isn't a declaration that it was an Apache. Also, the original post doesn't mention 4 people. It wasn't until later posts that 4 passengers was mentioned, and none of those posts claimed that the helicopter was an Apache. I don't see where anyone stated that the helicopter was an Apache. Where did anyone say it was an Apache?

As usual, acy, reading comprehension takes a distant back seat to sensationalism and wild hypothesis. You at least have risen above that.

So much for 'autorotation'... Isn't this about the 4th or 5th helo that's crashed in the last few months??

Prayers to those families of the deceased.. Very sad day for them..

Digital Dan may chime in, but in my limited knowledge of helicopter flight, if you lose the tail rotor, autorotation goes out the window and the only emergency procedure is to kiss your ass goodbye.

I'm not definitely saying that was the cause here, just that the results seem to hint at it.

That's my understanding.

Once the tail rotor is not countering the main rotor torque everything starts spinning.

Auto rotation depends on the gear box still spinning the tail rotor to counter the main rotor.

The first Blackhawk down in Blackhawk Down was a due to a RPG strike on the tail rotor.

Helicopters with 2 main rotors have the rotors rotating opposite and don't need a tail rotor to counter the main rotor torque.

C-47 and the Orc KA-52 are examples.

Helicopters are inherently risky and you need some elevation for autorotation to work. Unless you have very good mechanics working on them with rock solid QC, experienced pilots, I wouldn't get on one again. And I've flown on them in some of the worst weather/conditions imaginable.

I was wondering.
My friend said it looked like an Apache… it was down in his neighbors field and he wasn’t allowed to go get the serial numbers or make and model!

That being said it went down within a good long rifle shot of the river. Wonder if a 50 cal could take out a tail rotor? I’ve hunted his fields before and it wasn’t uncommon to hear full auto shots from across the river.
Not saying that’s what happened for the ones with zero reading comprehension, but it wouldn’t surprise me. We’ll never know. Making that public knowledge would require a response in the real world, but in fantasy land they’ll say it just crashed and blame some 23yo crew chief for not torquing a bolt right.

As notes that’s a UH72 Lakota. My son is a UH-60 mechanic, but also certified on the Lakota’s as well. He said part of the deal with Army NG units getting the Lakota is a deal was cut for the Army NG to help the border patrol. Prayers for those that lost loved ones in the crash.

I thought auto rotation meant that the pilot disengaged the aircraft from the spinning main propeller(s) and allowed the propeller continue to spin on its own ("auto rotate") as a way of providing some lift as the helicopter heads down. And supposedly the pilot only has a split-second to make this happen before the centrifugal force from the spinning makes it impossible for him to reach upward to push the button to make it happen.

La Grulla, Is damn sure Indian Country, was there a few day's ago for a funeral, a lot of Border Patrol and DPS parked around there. Rio7

When you lose tail rotor through drive, gearbox, or tr blade failure the only way to counter main rotor torque is by aerodynamic force and making a run on landing. Not possible if you are low and slow.

For autorotation to "work" you have to be in the right attitude. If your forward speed is zero or close to it and your tail rotor loses effectiveness (no left or right directional control) it's something like being in a flat spin. Nothing good happens after that.

See Jimone's response.

kwg

The obvious probabilities are loss of tail rotor. loss of tail rotor effect, fixed t/r pitch, or settling with power - in this case most likely occuring at low airspeed. As Jimone said, depending on the particular model if it happens at 45-50 knots or faster, in most instances the helicopter can be flown to runway where a run-on landing can be accomplished. If this occured at night and/or in questionable weather, then loss of visibility and situational awareness could be the root cause or at least a major contributing factor. The accident will be investigated by the Army Safety Center folks along with state NG safety officers and they do a thoroughly, professional job in determining what happpened. At this point even when something appears obvious, it's still speculation.

Well summarized and said, good sir.

The main rotor and tail rotor are connected through a gear box. If there is no damage to the tail rotor or the connection then the tail rotor will spin with the main rotor and the pedals will control the pitch of the tail rotor blades.

I assume to auto rotate the pilot needs to disconnect the main rotor from the engine to allow air flow to rotate the main rotor and produce some lift to slow the decent.

Pretty recent helicopter auto rotation in Hawaii. Sounds like the rotors are over spinning on the way down but the pilot didn't have much space to land and had to lose altitude fast to hit the beach. Still had the tail rotor to steer the nose.

Auto Rotation Crash Landing

That's partially true but not the case in settling with power, fixed "stuck" pitch, or loss of tail rotor effectiveness. As to what you think from the film - if by the term "over spinning" you mean overspeeding, what I hear is an increase in the frequency which would be the transmission as the rotors generate low-freq sound. Anytime one has a truly unexpected engine failure, initially he's going to lose rotor RPM because he's has a good degree of pitch in the blades combined with a reversal of airflow now coming up through the rotor disk - he has to lower the collective to "flatten out" the pitch in the blades which allow the rotor to build and recover the RPM initially lost when the engine quit - also he made a quick, decelerating right turn (which also builds rotor RPM) if all that makes sense - so that's what you think is an over speeding which in effect, is actually recovery of rotor RPM building and still being connected to and driving the transmission which is generating the increasing, high frequency sound. In most helicopters, if you look down between your feet through the chin bubble, the spot you see on the ground is about where you're gonna end up . . . one way or the other. A lof of fun when it's planned - not so much when it's not.

Of course, Johnny Burns, the expert in everything military related, sees the phallic-shaped light beam shining up on the clouds, puts on his assless chaps and comes giggling to the rescue.

WyomingArmsMan saves the day again.