Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Here is the HEMO (Heavy Express) barely qualifying on the velocity bracket but easily beats that with more powder added:













Same bullet at increasing powder charge of AA-2460 on a different day and the 3.485" COL
was increased to 3.600" COL for higher MV with more powder,
AA-2460 was not compressed, H4895 was compressed slightly:



I need to look for that 75-grain charge target, to see why I thought it was good, at 2190 fps instrumental velocity from a 25" Shilen barrel.
I found it. It was only a 50-yard target for that chrono session and the 3-shot group was 1.91 MOA (correct MOA, calculated for 50 yards)

544-gr at 2137 fps instrumental, 3.485" COL, 72.0 gr AA-2460: 1.04 MOA 3-shot, 100-yards, 25" barrel

543-gr at 2190 fps instrumental, 3.600" COL, 75.0 gr AA-2460: 1.91 MOA 3-shot, 50-yards, same 25" barrel.

Your barrel harmonics may be different, your mileage may vary, etc.

So, I have neglected to do a NEMO (Nitro Express Modus Operandi) load with cast bullets:
480-500 grains at 2150 to 2200 fps
Shame.
Should be easy to do.

I’m traveling sir but I second that motion. Great loads great idea.
F01

Sir Dennis seconds the motion
that The Square Table consider a classification of cast bullet loads,
.458 Winchester Magnum Cast Bullet Modi Operandi, with this provisional suggestion,
based on a 23" to 25" barrel length (average 24"), any COL, short or long:

Light Express: 400-480 grain bullet at 1800 to 2200 fps: LEMO
Nitro Express: 480-500 grain bullet at 2150-2200 fps: NEMO
Heavy Express: 500-600 grain bullet at 2150-2200 fps: HEMO
Bullseye Express: Any bullet weight at any velocity that shoots accurately, and is not covered by other MO brackets: BEMO

That is good enough for Four Five Eight Winchester Magnus Rex.
By Magnus Rex decree, consider it considered and adopted by the Square Table.

Nitro Express (NEMO) cast bullet loads coming up.

BENCHMARK would be a good benchmark for removing temperature considerations.
AA-2460 as suggested by Sir Dennis for the 485-grainer, would be a lower pressure load for same velocity.
H4895 could be used for any of the four classes of cast bullet loads.
So many good powders for the .458 WinMag that it boggles the mind ...

Good Morning Sir Ron and the Knights of the Square Table!

I have a couple of loads for the Bullseye Express category, since all of my work has been on the low side. Sorry - don't have the nice pictures that Ron usually includes

All loads were fired from my recently acquired Ruger M77 Tang Safety 458WM with a 24" barrel.

415gr RNFP Powder Coated Plain Base - 20gr Unique - 1260fps avg. Mold/origin is unknown, found these in a box of my Dad's, powder coated them and ran them through a .460 Lee sizer.

405 RCBS FP Powder Coated GC - 20gr Unique - 1300fps avg.

415gr RNFP Powder Coated Plain Base - 35gr 5744 - 1349fps avg.



Not a cast bullet, but I finally decided on my whitetail load:

325gr Hornady FTX - 55.0gr H4198 - CCI 250 primer - C.O.L 3.088 - 1968fps

Any of those Bullseye loads will work just fine on deer as well.
F01

Enaa baasee' Sir Thomas.
Nice deer-killing ballistics for sure.
Turning the mighty .458 WinMag into a Springfield Trapdoor .45-70 Gov't. equivalent, Bullseye Express, is a great thing to do.
Stay tuned for my next attempt.

That will be the Lee 459-405 Hollow Base FN cast in Linotype, PC-painted and sized with same .460" Lee sizer.
It comes out at only 375 grains.
Trying that with 30 grains AA-5744 and hoping for about 1400 fps.
Even if it does not expand on a deer, it will make a bloody big enough hole to do the job,
as Sir Dennis alluded.

Trying another snake shot load too, with those shot capsules. Just one capsule, filled with No. 9 shot.
18 grains of Blue Dot.

And a squirrel load with 145-gr lead ball PC-painted up to 0.460" diameter,
powered by 12 grains of Trail Boss.

Then I am chasing the Nitro Express bracket with six different bullets,
five of them in BHN-25 alloy,
plus one in soft, 20:1 alloy.
Two plain-based, four gas-checked, all PC-painted.

Five shots each bullet, all with same powder charge: 72.0 grains AA-2460.
Bullet weights from 468 grains to 494 grains.
COLs from 3.250" to 3.395".
Loading ratios from 95% to 105% net fill, no drop tube, just mild compression of the loose powder on three of the six loads.

With that much horse crap in the corral, I am bound to find a pony fit to ride.

So we see that when a 410 Ga shot cup wad is used in the proper orientation,
with the maximum recommended weight of shot for that wad, per manufacturer,
the 2.5" brass case is longer than really necessary.
One still has to add some filler wadding under the shot cup.
The wasted space is twice as much if using 2.8" brass cases.
More trouble with the .458 Lott, bless its heart.
Once again the .458 Lott is the .458 Loser in this horse race.

I shall hie me to the open range with that Express Pony,
soon as I can lasso him out of the corral.
It's getting kind of deep in there.

Good doings Gents, you all keep popping those primers burning powder and sending copper/lead downrange! i'm on the IRL for awhile, will be back to blasting soon ; ]

Eagerly awaiting your findings Sir Ron! I know the rifling in my Taurus Judge really spreads a .410 shell with #8s, and that's with a 3 inch barrel! No telling what a 20-24" spin cycle will do!

Thanks Fury, just trying to get a +P+ equivalent of a factory Hornady LeverEvolution 45/70 load. It clocks about 1700fps out of my 22" barrel Marlin 1895. That FlexTip bullet should expand nicely going 200fps faster

Sir Jerry,
Your forbearance of plastic in the bore is appreciated, regarding the 410 Ga shot cup wads, both backwards and forwards,
as well as the plastic shot capsules.
Please be as gracious when we get to the 45-cal-to-35-cal muzzle loader sabot loads,
and plastic skirted "Power Belt" softies with Blackhorn 209 in the .458 WinMag.
Could be the start of equipping .458 WinMag Gemmer rifles with a ramrod,
and making one brass case last forever.
Be well.

Sir Thomas,
Here's hoping that the .458 WinMag bore is loser than the .45LC/410 Judge
and the shot cups and capsules will do some skidding on the rifling and not as much spinning.
The fact that Ganyana tried 2 shot capsules in a single load and one of them made a .45-cal hole in the target is worrisome.

I typo-ed above, meant to say the .458 WinMag bore is hopefully "LOOSER" (not "loser") than the .45LC.

The NEMO trial conclusion: 72.0 grains of AA-2460 is too much for a "480-ish" grain bullet.



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The pointy NOE HTC 459-500 plain base, 494 gr./.461", with PC paint, shot into a group about the size of my hat at 50 yards.
It must be intended for subsonic use.
The long and pointy AM 46-485Z was worse than the shorter FN version AM 46-485N.
Too shameful to show.
None as good as the AM 46-410M (SOCOM) has been so far, and it was best at about 2150 fps,
and it can be fired at 2566 fps MV into a vertically strung 2-MOA 3-shot "group" at 100 yards.
Use same powder charge as used with the 404-gr Shock Hammer.
Good for Shock Hammer practice loads to save dollars.

Ball & shot & squib loads next ...

Pellet holes marked with Sharpie:



Adjusted aim to allow for scope height above bore at close range,
iron-sighted would be better for a snake safari:

Before dirtying the barrel with lead shot, I did try the Lee Hollow base (# 459-405-HB)
and the single lead ball load, both PC-painted:









The load for the round ball and the snake shot might be better in the .458 Lott.
That is the only possible reason I can think of for keeping a .458 Lott if you have a .458 WinMag.

Interesting Sir Ron. The pointy cast have to be perfect and pressed into the rifling straight to avoid problems is the general take on that form. I believe big flat nosed and short with a leading edge shoulder that takes command of the bullet the instant it enters the rifling is “best.” A RN with a good leading shoulder can work well too but I think the FN has an edge in the barrel and in game of course. I sure appreciate the work and the write up. I’ll start below 70 grains of 2460 for sure.
F01

Shalom to all on this Easter day.


Amen, Sir Dennis.

Now a correction on previous:

I typo-ed the weights of the two Accurate Molds bullets, mixing up their bare, naked weights, as-cast for the properly painted and gas-checked weights.
Corrected in the average weight below and in the bullet picture, which might be a little more accurate now:





To cut down on my confusion, it is now down to 2 bullets only,
and the powder charge is reduced to 70.0 grains of AA-2460 for both.

Below are the specs on both bullets from Accurate Molds:





Approximate weight and linear dimensions are supposed to be what you get with clip-on wheel weight alloy.
My BHN25 alloy casts bigger and lighter.
The average bullet weight to be tried with same powder charge is now = 484.5 grains
That ought to pass for Nitro Express Modus Operandi.

Two more interesting moulds from Accurate Molds.

This is "Inspired by the Lyman 457121" ...



... and that is the "PH" bullet made famous by Saint Sir Bagwell.
But it is several thou fatter than the "PH" so it will be sizable to .461" after PC paint of BHN25 alloy.
It is accurate and a killer as a greaser in wheel weight alloy with the .45-70 Sharps 1874 from Shiloh.
Hardcast for .458 WinMag and loaded long, and light, at about 450 grains in BHN25.
EET WEEL KEEL.
EET WEEL BAGWELL.

BHN25 and PC paint seems to make the plain base need no gas check, even at NE velocities.
With that thought, maybe this whacky boolitt will come out close to 480 grains in BHN25, no gas check to be added,
and that slight boat tail should be fun:



Note the major diameter is 0.464" !!!
That will be easily sizable to 0.461" in WW alloy.
I might have to lube the PC-painted BHN casting to avoid elbow grease in sizing the hardcast to .461"
Also will produce a tiny length of drive band at the sloping base of the nose, leading into the leade of the .458 WinMag.

70 grains of AA-2460 with the 478-grainer and 491-grainer is next for the NEMO trial.
Leave the gas check off of the 491-grainer and it will be about 482 grains.
Exactly 480-grain average for those two bullets then.
Rebated plain base with PC paint versus gas check.
Heh-heh-heh.