Seems you are again in full retreat…. Can’t back up your allegations….unable to participate in any sort of rational discussion.
Sorry you missed the point, guess I couldn’t dumb it down enough for you to either understand or offer any sort of thoughtful reply.
Meh…
You didn't "dumb it down", you created a straw man.
Nope, don’t think so. Just tried to illustrate ….that one need not know HOW something was made to know THAT it was made.
Seems he either can’t admit that….or….?….who knows….
So….here we are again…. Must we know HOW something is made to know THAT it exists?
Simple question….
Edit to add: You can go check if you like…but as I recall DBT clearly stated that I, Tf49 could not know THAT something could exist without knowing HOW it came into existence. He is simply wrong ….again…and got backed into a corner and will not admit it.
Last edited by TF49; 03/22/24.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
I don't recall the "Mark" including foot notes and a bibliography.
NO ancient historical manuscripts have foot notes or bibliographies.
Originally Posted by antelope_snipe
Heck, the text doesn't even include the authors name.
Sure it does. But the name was Anglicized when the Gospel was translated into English.
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
To say a modern historical work on Reagan, who only died 20 years ago is equivalent to Mark is not justified.
Originally Posted by antlers
The Gospel of Mark (for example) was written closer to Jesus’ time than we are to the time of Reagan’s presidency.”
Mark’s Gospel was written in 66 AD (33 years after Jesus’ crucifixion). Reagan’s presidency was from 81 to 89 (43 to 35 years ago).
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Heck, Mark doesn't even meet the standards of historical texts of the time.
Sure it does. But the fact that you feel the need to discredit absolutely any evidence…regardless of how well substantiated it is…simply because it’s associated with Jesus and Christianity isn’t the mark of a strong belief. It’s the mark of a weak and insecure belief that easily succumbs to a blind “us vs them” mentality.
Jesus has better documentation than Tiberius does, by most metrics. And it’s astonishing for a random rabbi in the middle of nowhere Judea to generate more of a paper trail than the ‘God-King’ of Rome did in 22 to 23 years as the Emperor of the known world…!
Seems you are again in full retreat…. Can’t back up your allegations….unable to participate in any sort of rational discussion.
Sorry you missed the point, guess I couldn’t dumb it down enough for you to either understand or offer any sort of thoughtful reply.
Meh…
You didn't "dumb it down", you created a straw man.
Nope, don’t think so. Just tried to illustrate ….that one need not know HOW something was made to know THAT it was made.
Seems he either can’t admit that….or….?….who knows….
So….here we are again…. Must we know HOW something is made to know THAT it exists?
Simple question….
You're conflating exists with "being made" by a sentient being. They are not synonymous.
Nope…. Keep the concept simple…..if one sees, holds and something….does that one need to know how it came into existence to KNOW it exists?
Just stick to the basic point….
Say did you just try to insert a “straw man” here?
Regarding you comment about conflating…are trying to make a case that something can be “made” without the involvement of a sentient being?
Edit to add: gotta get some sleep….will check on this tomorrow
Nope:
From The Century Dictionary
made mād noun
Created; wrought; fabricated; constructed.
Artificially produced; formed independently of natural development: as, made ground (ground made up of earth from another place); a made word. Drawn from various sources; formed of several parts or ingredients: as, a made dish; composite; built up: as, a made mast (a mast composed of several sticks bound together by iron hoops, in contradistinction to a single-spar mast).
Concocted; invented; fictitious: as, a made-up tale or excuse.
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 03/22/24.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
I don't recall the "Mark" including foot notes and a bibliography.
NO ancient historical manuscripts have foot notes or bibliographies.
Originally Posted by antelope_snipe
Heck, the text doesn't even include the authors name.
Sure it does. But the name was Anglicized when the Gospel was translated into English.
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
To say a modern historical work on Reagan, who only died 20 years ago is equivalent to Mark is not justified.
Originally Posted by antlers
The Gospel of Mark (for example) was written closer to Jesus’ time than we are to the time of Reagan’s presidency.”
Mark’s Gospel was written in 66 AD (33 years after Jesus’ crucifixion). Reagan’s presidency was from 81 to 89 (43 to 35 years ago).
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Heck, Mark doesn't even meet the standards of historical texts of the time.
Sure it does. But the fact that you feel the need to discredit absolutely any evidence…regardless of how well substantiated it is…simply because it’s associated with Jesus and Christianity isn’t the mark of a strong belief. It’s the mark of a weak and insecure belief that easily succumbs to a blind “us vs them” mentality.
Jesus has better documentation than Tiberius does, by most metrics. And it’s astonishing for a random rabbi in the middle of nowhere Judea to generate more of a paper trail than the ‘God-King’ of Rome did in 22 to 23 years as the Emperor of the known world…!
Start at 1:20
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
I think it might be possible that there are ways to be a good atheist, but trying to deny the existence of well-established historical documents is not one of em’.
“This is not even an issue for scholars of antiquity.... The reason for thinking Jesus existed is because he is abundantly attested in early sources.... If you want to go where the evidence goes, I think that atheists have done themselves a disservice by jumping on the bandwagon of mythicism, because frankly, it makes you look foolish to the outside world”. - famed (atheist) historian Bart Ehrman
Here’s my two cents worth. I was raised Catholic but since then nothing one way or the other. Now about a month ago I had a thought so evil that I came to a realization. There has to be an evil spirit or devil to put such thoughts into an average fellow. Because of this I now know there must be a God. You guys can argue all you want about stuff like heaven or hell but after this happened I know there is a greater power. The End! Edk
That is most understandable.
You suffer from the same delusion. What's a greater power? You two use the same definitions or like the warm and fuzzy that it gives you irrespective?
(BTW, you'll need to have a quiet chat with antlers about sentence structure - he provided one without a valid arguement and I had to edit it for him to strong man his arguement. Haven't heard from him since.)
Mauserand9 what a faker you are - the delusional hypocrite - constantly trying to invent some basis for your attacks. This is another fail.
To tell a person that what he says is understandable is a statement about analysis and comprehension - that the message makes some sense. That has nothing to do with definitions, a greater power, argument, support or denial of a position. How sick must you be to feel that your made up stuff can be a basis on which to attack others? That is bona fide delusion. Check your false spelling of argument and be careful about the sticky paper.
Meh...sharing someone else's delusion adds nothing to its significance or importance. Deflecting and avoidance are very telling however, and your modus operandi. You act like a noisy blind moth around an imaginary flame.
You are plagiarizing - merely repeating what so many have noticed in your behavior and posted here. It's the "looking in the mirror" effect. If it were your self-criticism it could be a good sign - but unlikely. What was that elementary school playground word - copycat?
Let me dumb it down for you…..try to follow closely….
No need, you are already as dumb as it gets.
Originally Posted by TF49
Seems you are again in full retreat…. Can’t back up your allegations….unable to participate in any sort of rational discussion.
Sorry you missed the point, guess I couldn’t dumb it down enough for you to either understand or offer any sort of thoughtful reply.
Meh…
Bluff and Bluster. You are full of hot air, Bud. A conceited blowhard without substance.
Not once have you attempted to deal with an issue without resorting to ad homs.
I asked you to explain why we are told in the bible that God creates evil.....and what was your response? Just more handwaving and smokescreens.
Let me try again…. Stick to the basic question…. Don’t try to change the subject or worm your way out of the question….and remember, this is in response to an allegation YOU made….. or have you forgotten?
If can you accept that if one is presented with SOMETHING, that one can believe it is real and does actually exist without knowing HOW it came to be?
Simple question..
We’re getting nothing but weasel words and avoidance for you.
You made the allegation, not me….. as usual, you cannot back up another of your empty headed charges.
But….go ahead and answer the question….what are you afraid of?
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
Seems you are again in full retreat…. Can’t back up your allegations….unable to participate in any sort of rational discussion.
Sorry you missed the point, guess I couldn’t dumb it down enough for you to either understand or offer any sort of thoughtful reply.
Meh…
You didn't "dumb it down", you created a straw man.
Nope, don’t think so. Just tried to illustrate ….that one need not know HOW something was made to know THAT it was made.
Seems he either can’t admit that….or….?….who knows….
So….here we are again…. Must we know HOW something is made to know THAT it exists?
Simple question….
You're conflating exists with "being made" by a sentient being. They are not synonymous.
Nope…. Keep the concept simple…..if one sees, holds and something….does that one need to know how it came into existence to KNOW it exists?
Just stick to the basic point….
Say did you just try to insert a “straw man” here?
Regarding you comment about conflating…are trying to make a case that something can be “made” without the involvement of a sentient being?
Edit to add: gotta get some sleep….will check on this tomorrow
Nope:
From The Century Dictionary
made mād noun
Created; wrought; fabricated; constructed.
Artificially produced; formed independently of natural development: as, made ground (ground made up of earth from another place); a made word. Drawn from various sources; formed of several parts or ingredients: as, a made dish; composite; built up: as, a made mast (a mast composed of several sticks bound together by iron hoops, in contradistinction to a single-spar mast).
Concocted; invented; fictitious: as, a made-up tale or excuse.
Your many words simply divert from the main issue…
So, you seem to have hinted at something and I would like to see some clarification from you….
If one is confronted with something that is been “made” or “fashioned”…..can one conclude that a sentient being was involved in the action act if “making” it?
Last edited by TF49; 03/23/24.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
Why is it the ones who are believers seem to be the rudest of the bunch here.? You would think the Christians would practice what they preach (pun intendent}. Like I said, I think religion is a good thing for some people, it's the zealots I cannot stand, and the ones that look down at people that don't believe. I can only imagine how many non believers that are here that are afraid to post on this thread.
We came from somewhere, I firmly believe that it's so complex that our minds are not capable of ever knowing. However, I don't think wishing or hoping something is true will make it so. .02
A lot of posts from non-believers would have to be ignored for one to agree believers are the rudest of the bunch. I do agree with you about zealotry, though....atheism often going without recognition of having more than it's fair share. Like any statement of bigotry, the litmus test is changing the target of the statement and re-reading it. Would the tone and implication still be disrespectful or offensive? The assumed entitlement to speak without any level of courtesy or respect is shared by many, with theism/atheism having nothing to do with it.
I am Catholic, I believe in a Christian God with all my heart. We also believe in the Trinity, Father, Son & Holy Spirit. I walk with other Christian's and our differences. God Bless them.
Why is it the ones who are believers seem to be the rudest of the bunch here.? You would think the Christians would practice what they preach (pun intendent}. Like I said, I think religion is a good thing for some people, it's the zealots I cannot stand, and the ones that look down at people that don't believe. I can only imagine how many non believers that are here that are afraid to post on this thread.
We came from somewhere, I firmly believe that it's so complex that our minds are not capable of ever knowing. However, I don't think wishing or hoping something is true will make it so. .02
A lot of posts from non-believers would have to be ignored for one to agree believers are the rudest of the bunch. I do agree with you about zealotry, though....atheism often going without recognition of having more than it's fair share. Like any statement of bigotry, the litmus test is changing the target of the statement and re-reading it. Would the tone and implication still be disrespectful or offensive? The assumed entitlement to speak without any level of courtesy or respect is shared by many, with theism/atheism having nothing to do with it.
People are rude here because they can get away with saying whatever they want. Nobody is rude when it could result in a punch in the mouth. There's no monopoly on rudeness here.
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