Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Do You Believe In God ?

Nope, not off target at all…. The real issue, the one you try to avoid is not what I propose about the origin of the universe…..this video is just your attempt to divert …..and hide.

Did this narrator list not one but at least a half a dozen ill defined theories about possible alternatives or variations to the big bang….or what ever happened at the beginning? Yes he did….

Did the narrator offer a single most viable theory to the origin of the universe? No, he did not.

You are resorting to 13 minutes of bafflegab in a weak attempt to avoid the real issue.

The real issue is not about which theory is most current or even accurate…

You remind me those twerps that “abstain” or even “flee” when the time to vote…..or act comes upon us.

“A” or “B”……. Or perhaps “F”….for fear of being exposed.


I will mark you down as “abstaining for lack of conviction.”

Btw…

Remember when you asked me what would be my fate if what I believed about God was false?

I agreed to answer if you would tell me what would be your fate if what I believed were true.

You agreed.

I answered and you did not…. You resorted to diversion and bafflegab.

So….the real issue is “A”….”Everything came from nothing”.

Or….”B”. The universe gives evidence of being “MADE” and that….by your own statement, requires the involvement of a “sentient being.”

This is the dumbest shiit I have ever heard! All that welding torched your brain! LOL!!!

No need, it's been as dumb as it gets for some time. All along in fact.




Bluff and bluster. It is you in retreat. I asked you to give a rational explanation for why the bible tells us that God creates evil, and you failed to address the question.

The reason is that you are incapable, so slagging off is your only means of defense.




Of course. A simple mind like yours has a simple view of the world and asks simple questions



That's your bluff.

Why not show that you have some substance and deal with the question rationally without resorting to mindless blather?

Again; why does the bible tell us that God creates evil? Not only that, but creates the 'wicked for the day of evil....

Are you capable of addressing the issue? Or are you going to keep running away?

If nothing else, religion has been a roaring success at keeping the population in check.

A good example is the Ancient Israelites. Their book says they were instructed by God to kill every man, woman, child, infant, and even the livestock of particular regions or ethnic groups with the aim of completely destroying that group of people. They even committed mass genocide against other Jews. The Ancient Israelites made the Einsatzgruppen look like kindergartners.

From RCSproulJr.....

A basic knowledge of Canaanite culture reveals its inherent moral wickedness. The Canaanites were a brutal, aggressive people who engaged in bestiality, incest, and even child sacrifice. Deviant sexual acts were the norm. The Canaanites’ sin was so repellent that God said, “The land vomited out its inhabitants” (Leviticus 18:25). Even so, the destruction was directed more at the Canaanite religion (Deuteronomy 7:3–5,12:2-3) than at the Canaanite people per se. The judgment was not ethnically motivated. Individual Canaanites, like Rahab in Jericho, could still find that mercy follows repentance (Joshua 2). God’s desire is that the wicked turn from their sin rather than die (Ezekiel 18:31-32, 33:11).

Besides dealing with national sins, God used the conquest of Canaan to create a religious/historical context in which He could eventually introduce the Messiah to the world. This Messiah would bring salvation not only to Israel, but also to Israel’s enemies, including Canaan (Psalm 87:4-6; Mark 7:25–30).

It must be remembered that God gave the Canaanite people more than sufficient time to repent of their evil ways—over 400 years (Genesis 15:13–16)! The book of Hebrews tells us that the Canaanites were “disobedient,” which implies moral culpability on their part (Hebrews 11:31). The Canaanites were aware of God’s power (Joshua 2:10–11; 9:9) and could have sought repentance. Except in rare instances, they continued their rebellion against God until the bitter end.

But didn’t God also command the Israelites to kill non-combatants? The biblical record is clear that He did. Here again, we must remember that, while it is true the Canaanite women did not fight, this in no way means they were innocent, as their seductive behavior in Numbers 25 indicates (Numbers 25:1–3). However, the question still remains: what about the children? This is not an easy question to answer, but we must keep several things in mind. First, no human person (including infants) is truly innocent. The Scripture teaches that we are all born in sin (Psalm 51:5; 58:3). This implies that all people are morally culpable for Adam’s sin in some way. Infants are just as condemned from sin as adults are.

Second, God is sovereign over all of life and can take it whenever He sees fit. God and God alone can give life, and God alone has the right to take it whenever He so chooses. In fact, He ultimately takes every person’s life at death. It is not our life to begin with but God’s. While it is wrong for us to take a life, except in instances of capital punishment, war, and self-defense, this does not mean that it is wrong for God to do so. We intuitively recognize this when we accuse some person or authority who takes human life as “playing God.” God is under no obligation to extend anyone’s life for even another day. How and when we die is completely up to Him.

Third, an argument could be made that it would have been cruel for God to take the lives of all the Canaanites except the infants and children. Without the protection and support of their parents, the infants and small children were likely to face death anyway due to starvation. The chances of survival for an orphan in the ancient Near East were not good.

Finally, the children of Canaan would have likely grown up as followers of the same evil religions their parents had practiced. It was time for the culture of idolatry and perversion to end in Canaan, and God wanted to use Israel to end it. Also, the orphaned children of Canaan would naturally have grown up resentful of the Israelites. Likely, some would have later sought to avenge the “unjust” treatment of their parents and return Canaan to paganism.

It’s also worth considering the eternal state of those infants killed in Canaan. If God took them before the age of moral accountability, then they went straight to heaven (as we believe). Those children are in a far better place than if they had lived into adulthood as Canaanites.

Surely, the issue of God commanding violence in the Old Testament is difficult. However, we must remember that God sees things from an eternal perspective, and His ways are not our ways (Isaiah 55:8–9). The apostle Paul tells us that God is both kind and severe (Romans 11:22). While it is true that God’s holy character demands that sin be punished, His grace and mercy remain extended to those who are willing to repent and be saved. The Canaanite destruction provides us with a sober reminder that, while our God is gracious and merciful, He is also a God of holiness and wrath.

Without getting into quoting the Bible, like so many others.... I do have one simple question tho...

Why do so many atheists, while not believing in a God, still believe there is a SATAN?

I've ran across many of them, who think that way.


Why can so many people NOT believe in GOOD, but have NO problem believing in EVIL?

I beleive in a "creator", Has more evedence than science. So also there then must be a "God".

TF,

I appreciate you investing the time to watch the video.

Yes, it really is a lot to wrap one's mind around, that the singularity resulting from General Relativity is just a break down it the math and not necessarily the beginning of space/time, and quantum theory suggests it is not. As the vacuum state approached zero it becomes unstable. I guess nature really does abhor a vacuum.

You asked about the universe being created from nothing, but what there really ever a true "nothing"? Our current best understand of physics tends to indicate other wise, which changes the whole question to "Why is there something rather than nothing". The honest answer remains "We don't know". We're researching, we're leaning, we have some idea's, but as of today, we don't know.

Seafire,

I wouldn't consider such a belief consistent with atheism. They still believe in a god, just an evil god. Many of the gods of old where not pleasant characters yet the believers were not considered atheist.

I wish I had more wisdom as to be able to join this discourse. I can easily see that those that use personal attacks and abuse really have nothing but their feelings and raw emotion. I also ponder if there is a God who created the entire universe and all things in it, and who was active moment by moment in all things, in all peoples lives, just how insignificant my thoughts and conclusions would be in the face of a being so mighty, that we are below gnats to men in our understanding of it all. If such a being existed his definition of good and what he wanted might be in conflict with our definition of good. Perhaps his creation of life, might be that in his immortal existence he wishes for life to become immortal with him, and this worldly existence is not the end. Some feel they have seen the supernatural, while others only see only coincidence. Perhaps there is a reason for this. We all are like the little boy with a bucket who said he was going to scoop up and pour the ocean into a hole he had dug on the beach, we don't even know what we don't know, we only think we know.

According to science,Simple "life" was created from acids and lightning, yet have never been able to recreate it.

It's a little more complex then that.

AS: You and I agree when you say "we don't know". There is a heck of a bunch more that "we don't know" than what we do know. We don't have the straight story on a lot of things that happened even in the last 200 years. It is pretty arrogant to claim authority over the truth because of a very sketchy much edited and forged record dating back centuries or millennia.

And don't you dare say that some of the record bears all evidence of forgery or of being added in to support control by the state/church alliance.

We absolutely have literate people that today believe in a young earth and a worldwide flood that left no land exposed.

Did I say something that triggered you? It wasn't my intent.

Yes, we have good evidence that 6 of the books attributed to Paul were written by the same author, 3 were not, and the other 4 are of questionable authorship. The 4 gospels of the NT were written by anonymous authors and the names Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John where added 100 some odd years later. These are just well established facts.

As for literate people believing silly stuff, well, yea, there's plenty of that to go around. Go check out the Q thread.

I believe in God. What I have a doubt in is organized religion.

It is clear that some of those who post in threads like this are very well read/learned on these matters and have studied/thought deeply. Whether they are Christians willing to share their reasoning and experiences or non-Christians who do not embrace the Christian beliefs and faith in God (or those folks who sit somewhere between), they use their rational base for sensible discussion that evolves from the main topic of the thread. Others come in and ask sincere and genuinely helpful questions. I admire and support all of the above behavior.

You may have noticed that I do not post Scripture (as evidence or otherwise) nor preach what others should do with regard to their religious beliefs and convictions. Although quite open to interaction and discussion with sincere and questioning non-Christians, and although I sometimes and even frequently do so when opportunity arises, these threads are not very suitable for that part of my life. But - again - I fully support the interactions here as described in the initial paragraph.

Others insert themselves here for reasons that do not fit with the behavior of the sincere. Eventually they stoop to derision, name-calling, ad hom attacks, etc.. When I see such behavior, I tend to call it out, describe it, and address it according to its negative/divisive/destructive nature. Sometimes I do so with vigor and persistence. My human weakness sometimes enables me to enjoy the expository writing exercise. Thus came that post citing moths to the flame, flies to the sticky paper, etc.. I asked those types to openly state the reasons for their actions - but think I heard crickets.

Some very good people do not like forthright confrontational actions like those, and that may not fit with their personal definition of Christian behavior. I didn't write the definition, have no wish to influence how others define it, and so act because taking up the sword sometimes seems the very best thing to do. If any here interpret the confrontation of hypocrisy, insincerity and nastiness as poor behavior on my part, that is understandable. All is well.

I believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

I will just say, if you Know me, you already have the answer. I do not like this type fishing expedition. miles