Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns .38-40 heavy bullet data?

I could put this in the reloading section but there's more traffic here.

I'm looking for load data for heavier-than-normal bullets for a Ruger .38-40. Are there any published sources for bullets in the 215 grain range? I'm not looking to turn it into a .41 magnum, in fact, I'd like to hit my velocity goals with less than max loads if possible. Everything I've found so far is for custom 6 shot guns with tight aftermarket cylinders or even 5-shot conversions. Not what I'm trying to do. Any sort of published data telling me where the fence is would make it easier to stay inside it .. or even if my velocity hopes are reasonable.

Thanks (in advance) ..

Tom

Don't put a lot of stock in what I'm saying, no experience, but you got my curiosity up and I just measured water capacity of .41 Mag against 38-40 cases with a bullet deeply seated kinda maybe sorta like a 215 gr would be...result of my crude comparison is there is not a helluva difference in case capacity, 14% but actually not that much because of the bottle neck style the .38-40 is 36 gr to full and the .41 is 31 gr..... so I'm wondering if you could use 41 mag start loads? Or...Ken Waters pet loads has 38-40 Ruger data with 180 ish gr bullets...but I guess you knew that.

Not a horrible idea. Eventually it'll be time for "by guess and by golly" (whatever that means). I've read a bit on 5 shot conversions and 6-shot minimal tolerance cylinders. Mine is just a normal out of the box Buckeye special .. with a home trigger job of course. Hornady's data gets the 200 grain XTP to 1050 fps or something like that. I think with cast I can probably do the same with 15 grains more bullet. I don't need any more than that .. I just want to push that sharper shouldered bullet fast enough to make a permanent hole through a buck. So far the gun shoots faster with IMR 4227 but a bit more accurately with 2400 .. but that's with 180 grain lead. I didn't really like the look of those for hunting.

What little info I read yesterday...Waters and others have mentioned Herco and Blue Dot are mentioned with the word 'accuracy' in the same sentence.
Just for an anecdote, I whacked a small buck four years back with a .38-40, 175 gr Lee wheelweight at 1040 fps from a '92 Winchester. 65 yds maybe? No drama, through the nearside ribs, no exit. One shot on one buck does not make a sound judgement on performance...but I thought I would mention it anyway. In my mind the .38-40 175-180 gr is equal to almost any .357 mag load...and nobody even questions the .357.

You haven't said the gun or the desired velocity...Not sure how to give you any loading advice.

Here's some seat of the pants thinking.

A 38-40 has a nominal water capacity of 36 grains as shown above, 39 grains as reported here: http://kwk.us/cases.html. SAAMI max pressure is 14,000 psi.

That revolver, the New Model Ruger Blackhawk, is also chambered in .45 Colt which has a case capacity of about 41-42 grains of water. Several sources report max "Ruger only" .45 Colt loads of up to 30,000 psi. I forget whether Brian Pierce or John Linebaugh came up with that number based on the relative thickness of the chamber walls for a .44 Magnum vs. a .45 Colt.

The .38-40 case is .467" OD just forward of the rim, the .45 Colt is .480", so there's actually a wee bit more steel in the .38-40 chamber wall at its thinnest point, then the walls get thicker from there. But you have to load to the strength of the thinnest portion, not the thickest.

Hornady shows the .45 Colt with similar case capacity albeit bigger bore (more bullet base area for pushing) throwing a 300 grain jacketed bullet up to 1250 fps or a 250 grain jacketed bullet to 1300.

As you noted, Hornady shows a 200 grain jacketed bullet reaching 1050 fps. They don't say what pressure that load is, they only caution that it's for modern revolvers of similar strength to the Blackhawk. I doubt they're even getting into 38 Special +P territory but that's just wild ass speculation.


Anyway, I wouldn't say to load the .38-40 to 30,000 psi (how would you know?) but just looking at what that revolver is capable of, I would say that with your 215 grain cast bullet at the same 1050 fps you'd still have a very large safety margin.


This is all just Mad Scientist thinking on an overcast and windy afternoon...

Does the Hornady data mirror the 40 short & weak data or does it mirror the 10mm Auto data in their manual. I would use 10mm data to load to see if you get the velocity that you want. Also the buckeye special's other cylinder was chambered in 10mm Auto. With the bigger case, should be able to work up to the velocity that you want without excessive pressure.

My 38-40 (a colt SAA) uses 180 grain lead (one reference gives a 175 grain data). If I were going the way of something not on the current tables...I'd just try some trail boss, iirc correctly trail boss gives some recommendations based upon case capacity when working up loads.

Buffalo Bore has 38-40 in 180 grains.

40S&W = 38-40 from my experience...those who do not read history, are doomed to repeat it...

Just a thought, but a 180 grain lead bullet with a wide flat meplat, driven at "standard" .38-40 velocities, sized to fit the throats and soft enough to expand will be accurate without leading and have plenty of moxie for ripping the soul out of a deer. An old hunting pard performed that trick with boring regularity, utilizing a 1920's-vintage Colt New Service. 8 grains of Unique was his go-to load, but don't quote me on that.

Where/what bullet are you going to shoot? Unless you're making a custom mold, won't anything heavier than 200grs be the wrong shape/type?


In my Buckeye I mostly shot 180 XTPs at 1450fps. Or 200 grain cast in the 1200-1300ish? I had a copy of the Boser bullet made up, but 1. it didn't want to shoot and 2. the mold had minor issues in how it was made and it didn't want to release bullets. So the second time around we gave it more driving band and more tapper on the nose.


Dry Creek is long out of business now, besides it was my mold and it's in my basement. lol