Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Mule Deer- If You Were Looking at Bird Dogs?

MD,

Seems like most of your personal bird dogs have been labs, or lab crosses. Ever owned a pointing breed dog?

If you were gonna start one last pup, what type and from where?

I'm not Mule Deer but after owning GSP's I'm not interested in any other breed.

Word.

Have hunted behind some remarkable GSPs. But have hunted behind many more that I felt sorry for the dogs and the owners...

Never wanted to hunt with a dog for a half hour, and then hunt for a dog for a half day...

I'll add that probably the most productive gun dog I've ever seen was a big built female GSP rescue from a pound. Suzie probably weighed 75 lbs, but she was a crafty old girl who knew wild rooster pheasant, quail, and creek bottom mallards. Her owner took her everywhere he went, when he wasn't working. And the guy only worked so he could hunt and fish. Not lazy, in the least, but focused on what he considered important

Same guy had 2 of the 3 best GSPs I've ever seen

I had English pointers for 25 years. They run big, not for everybody. We hunted from daylight to dark, usually had 8 to 10 dogs. It’s warm in Texas. We would run a pair 2 hours, swap out for another pair, usually run them twice a day. We would stop long enough to eat a sandwich at lunch, go again until dark. I had a bunch of day lease places I could hunt back then. I miss quail hunting, don’t miss taking care of those dogs every day. I had them in a kennel, washed the cshit into a trough, from trough to septic tank. I don’t know what dog food costs now, but I went through a lot of dog food in a month. I fed them Purina Hi-Pro, gave them a 1/2 CC of ivermectin each month. I had some live 15 years. There is no way I could have afforded heart worm pills for that many dogs.

Deutsch Kurzhaars = breeding proven dogs for performance results.

I've had just wonderful dogs over the years, a couple labs early on, GSPs, GWHP, and AWS plus I was a Spaniel hunt test judge for a number of years. The very most important part of having a good bird dog is training. That said they know how to hunt making the a decent hunting companion is what is important. I'm getting older and would want a bird dog that be a good companion. For me for my last dog would be a field bred English Cocker, more than adequate for my waterfowl hunting, finding quail here in the SW or chasing upland birds in the midwest. My days of running one dog in the morning and another in the afternoon are gone , now I hunt little pockets of cover .

Realistically, how much time and space do you have/are you going to spend at it? I grew up in central ND during the heydays of CRP and immense pheasant numbers. We had labs and they worked for everything upland and waterfowl one wants to chase. Our neighbor (whom we hunted with almost every weekend) had a couple of shorthairs and they worked differently but no better/worse than the labs. 2000 I got a new job and hunted with a whole different group of guys using English Cockers and summer '01 I dumbed into an amazing deal on an 18Mo old finished English Cocker.

I hunted that EC w/dad's and several other buddy's labs, his neighbor's GSP, a buddy's GSP, and another buddy's GWP. They all worked because they were all trained. Dad ended up getting a cocker and going away from labs. He didn't waterfowl hunt anymore and the cocker was an easy and small package to manage, he even let him be in the house (labs were 100% outside dogs). My 3rd cocker is 4 and laying on his bed next to my desk as I type.

4 friends have Puddle-pointers, they work well. One of the Pudelpointer owners also has a fairly large Drathaar and it's probably the "Gamest" dog I've hunted behind. 2x while out for a daily "run" for exercise he's retrieved 2 coyotes that he ran down. 1 was dead, the other was very disoriented. I also saw some video of the big D breaking a LOT of ice to get to a wounded Swan, then break a bunch more on the way back with a reasonably lively swan flopping about. That D runs big, but, you can also hunt him on nothing more than a fence-row through stubble for huns.

I know 2 guys that have small Munsterlanders and dearly love them, but, I've never gotten the chance to see them afield.

I have never owned a pointing dog, but have hunted over a bunch of 'em since starting to hunt upland birds 58 years ago--which is also when I started waterfowl hunting. At that time my primary hunting mentor was a guy named Norm Strung, who was just starting to make a living as an "outdoor" writer. As I did early in my writing career, he hunted big game and fished a lot, along with hunting upland birds and waterfowl. At that time he had a pair of Brittany spaniels and a Lab, but within a few years decided to just use the Lab, because using one all-around dog worked much better between all his other pursuits.

Which is partly why I started out with a Lab, at age 19. The other reason is my first wife's mother gave me a black male, part of a pair of males from the same litter. (She gave the other to her husband.) I knew little about dog training from Norm, and learned some more from various books, and when Gillis was six months old he flushed the first covey of upland birds he ever smelled, and nicely retrieved the two sharptailed grouse I shot. (He was also relatively small and lean, weighing around 65 pounds at his peak, which helped with his endurance in the field.)

Eventually he flushed and retrieved every upland bird in Montana, after I moved to the western end of the state. We have around a dozen legal species.

He flushed and retrieved a bunch more over the 13 years he lived, partly because that first wife was an enrolled member of the Fort Peck Reservation in northeast Montana--and her grandfather was an avid hunter and angler. The marriage brought me the same rights to hunt as tribal members, and since Ben was retired and I was starting to make OK money writing so didn't need a full-time job, we hunted a lot together, and that part of Montana has excellent upland and hunting. (Or it did back then. It has since been "discovered" by hunters from other states.) There were also no "closed" season or bag limits, and one fall I killed 66 sharptails, along with various other upland birds including Hungarian partridge, pheasants and sage grouse--along with a variety of ducks and Canada geese.)

Anyway, I eventually got divorced, but still had Gillis when I met and married Eileen. By that time he'd started pointing quite a few upland birds, especially pheasants--as many Labs do as they age. After we had to put him down I didn't even think about getting anything except a Lab. Found a chocolate male through a friend, whose parents weighed 65 and 70 pounds. He grew up to be right around 100 pounds when lean and mean, but was big even we got him as a 3-month-puppy, the reason we named him Keith, in honor of Elmer--because he was a "big-bore boy." He couldn't hunt upland birds early in the season unless they were near water, because he got too hot--but was the best waterfowl (especially goose) dog I've ever had.

Keith also hunted until 13, and around that time we got invited to hunt quail with a guy in southern Arizona who was a bird-hunting guide, dog breeder and pointing-dog trainer who was good enough that people as far as away as England shipped him dogs to be trained. He had around a dozen Llewellin setters for upland hunting, but also guided waterfowl hunters, especially in the Midwest where the spring snow-goose season had started, so also had one Lab, a male--which was kept in a second kennel, separated from the setters by a chain-link fence.

One night around New Year's Eve the Lab and one of his female setters had a party, apparently through the fence, and soon she had 11 puppies. He kept two, and gave rest away--including a male to us, because he knew Keith had recently passed. He said, "You NEED this dog, he's a GOOD boy." He was six months old, because our friend always kept pups until that age so they'd be socialized, and so he came to Montana. We named him Gideon, after a really good tracker we'd hunted with in Namibia, and Gideon eventually got to hunt birds from Alberta to Arizona, and the U.P of Michigan to Oregon.

This was because both Eileen and I were assigned books around 2000, mine Shotguns for Wingshooting, and Eileen's Upland Bird Cookery. So we put around 12,000 miles on our pickups to both field-test shotguns and collect kitchen specimens for the cookbook. Consequently Gideon got to hunt 11 species of upland birds in four months, and did really well. In fact in two of the places we hunted, the Sand Hills of Nebraska (primarily for prairie chickens) and the U.P. of Michigan (primarily for woodcock, but also for ruffed grouse--though we also have plenty in Montana) some of the other hunters asked if they could hunt with Gid and us. He wasn't quite as good a retriever as a pure-bred Lab, but could go all day.

After Gideon we bought a female chocolate Lab from a local breeder, who'd bought her partly as a show dog--but her ears turned out to be too short. We bought Lena at 18 months, and had to go through a "trial" before Nola would sell her to us. Nola lived on a ranch, where we went for a walk with her, Lena and couple of Nola's other Labs around a hayfield. After a few hundred yards, Lena stuck her nose in the air started tracking a scent toward the middle of the field. The other two Labs followed, looking puzzled--until after around 300 yards Lena put up a covey of Huns. She has the best nose of any Lab I've hunted with, and has hunted and retrieved every upland bird in Montana, along with plenty of ducks and geese.

Anyway, will probably get another Lab, due to all the above reasons, but am thinking of a "miniature" Lab, which grow up to around 35-50 pounds--mostly so I can lift the dog more easily as I age. Have some info on good breeders, so we'll see.

99% of a dogs life will be NOT hunting. All those pointing breeds while better hunters marginally than a lab, maybe. frankly suck as family dogs. They are too high strung and just too wiggy. Buddy had a puddle pointer and it’s a total pos of a dog that he wasted $2500 buying. Hunted over all of em, Brittany’s, gsp’s etc at the pheasant farms. Give me my black lab that points all day long and twice on sundays over those bread for only hunting dogs.

I also feel the rage right now of adding poodle to the bread is very unwise. It creates a dog that is far less predictable in its temperament and intended purpose. Basically more likely than not you end up with a mut that is worthless.

Keep it simple just get a frikken Labrador!

Great story John. Thanks!

Wild Montana birds


Life at home




Everyone of my dogs were as great in the house as in the field and lived in my vans with me. This guy liked to crawl in the bunk at 5 AM, one(AWS) liked to steel the blankets and make a nest on the floor. They learn when to turn it on and not.

Cool recollection of your dogs, MD. And good luck to you on the next one.

I have and am considering a French Brittanie or possibly a WPG.

Or... Like most of my previous dogs, maybe another Lab...

The pudel was added to the pudelpointer a long time ago...

I like mine. He does okay in the field and great in/around the house. Best pet I've ever had.

To the OP, I think it all depends on what type/style of hunting you want to do most. First thing I would do as you are looking into breeds/litters is start research locations and sources of birds for training. All breeds will need that! My dog is 8 so I am doing a bit of thinking about the next one. I have an affinity for dogs with beards so am leaning hard towards another pudelpointer, a drathaar or wirehaired pointing griffon.

I have a pair of GSP’s. 12 months apart from same parents. They are both high strung, but with the kids the get lots of exercise. Both sleep with kiddos and are basically lap dogs 95% of time. But both with also hunt all day and be rearing to go do it again tomorrow. They have quirks but all dogs do. These are my first bird dogs so while I’m happy, I’m not sure if there is better out there. The youngest is at a trainer now (Dokken) doing their intermediate course. Was up there a week or so ago checking it out and more than happy.

While I get guys training their own, we didn’t have time or experience. I’m happy with the money spent and both dogs had upwards of 300 birds last year between wild and preserve. The initial investment on the training spread out over lifetime of dog is about the cost of a premium flat of shells a year. And having a dog that can hunt better than me is worth it in my mind.

When something happens to these I’m not sure what we will go too. A good friend has English setters and they are great hunt behind, and another had pudelpointers that are exceptional

I mentioned in my previous post that I've hunted over a lot of pointing dogs over decades, both those of friends I've hunted with, and when I've been invited on "industry" hunts in other states. My Labs have generally gotten along well with them, especially Lena, who instinctively "backed" both the GSPs belonging to a buddy who passed away a couple years ago, and the Deutsch Drahthaars of another. But the one that might be the most interesting was a redbone hound in Alabama that did a great job of pointing bobwhites.

On an industry hunt in western Idaho, near the Oregon line, one of the guides had a blue heeler that performed great as a flusher/retriever.

We have a lot of GSP’s here in SW GA. The old saying is they’re either the smartest dog you’ve ever had or the dumbest, there is no in between. I got a beautiful pup years ago. Her daddy was a National Field Champion. She was as dumb as a rock. Seen others that’ll just blow your mind.

I stick with my labs…love em.

Mornin, WIREHAIR ........ GWPGUY. 🐾👣🐾👣🇨🇦

That's interesting about the redbone hound and the blue healer.