. I like how they did the Springfield Saint. Lots of upgrades already on it, but not a pricey boutique gun. Not a budget gun either....good middle ground rifle.
One shooting buddy has a Saint and the other a Smith & Wesson. The Saint is clearly the nicer gun. S&W makes nice revolvers but their AR is basic entry level.
I'd recommend BCM or for slightly less an Aero Precision. If you're wanting better Daniel Defense.
Really comes down to what you want to pay for. Upgrades cost extra and the parts removed are spares or sold at a loss, so upgrading everything makes a poor purchase overall.
Building exactly what you want is probably dollar for dollar your best bet.
“You never need fear a man, no matter what his size. When danger threatens, call on me, and I will equalize.” Samuel Colt.
�Common sense is genius dressed up in work clothes.� - Ralph Waldo Emerson
You asked about an "accurate" gun. That means different things to many people.
I will skip a bunch of typing and just say this; I would use a White Oak Armament upper in whatever configuration best suited my needs and tastes. I would put it on a good quality lower that had a decent trigger. A good Colt, BCM, whatever. That matters a lot less, as long as it is quality, and assembled by someone who knows what they are doing.
I have used White Oak barrels and uppers in more than 2 dozen builds for guys and all shot very well. Usually using MK262 (77 grain Sierra Matchking), but that was what was available for them at the time and location.
Bottom line is that it is extremely easy to simply put a WOA upper on a good lower and be done.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.
The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.
Rock River Arms has some rifles designed for hunting or match shooting that come with a .75" guarantee. My experience is they will do that with good quality factory ammo and handloads can turn in some startling small groups.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
I've had good luck with BCM and Daniel Defense. I have a White Oak Armament 18 inch barrel that shoots very well. Same for a Rock River 20". There are lots of good choices for a mid priced AR. One thing to consider is that you probably want an after market trigger for the best accuracy. I like the Geissele SSA-E which is pricey but can be found around $150 when on sale.
As others said, get a decent lower, you can get blemished lower from PSA and replace the trigger with Geissele trigger which you can do yourself, then shop for upper receiver, it all depends how much you want to spend and how heavy you want the rifle to be.
. Most first time AR buyers are going to grab a complete rifle. For the money, I don't think there's anything on the market that can match this for a mid-range AR. Buttstock, handguard, grip, trigger guard, trigger, etc are already upgraded from milspec and it's mid-gassed. The Easy Button.
What is a good, accurate AR in 5.56? I'm not looking for a budget gun, but not a gold-plated one either.
We need a little more info. Answer some of these questions:
1. Price range? I realize you said, no budget guns, but not gold plated either. $-$? 2. What weight range?? 3. Barrel length you desire? 4. When you say "accurate", how accurate? 5. Factory built, or would you consider a built rifle if someone had one here to sell?
Some of these guys are going off on a tangent, with suggestions of expensive unnecessary triggers and other schidt. I also would not suggest BCM, if you are looking for an "accurate" rifle. This thread would be better off in the AR and tactical rifle forums here. Those guys tend to know more about this kind of stuff. I will say that you don't have to pay Daniel Defense prices to get extreme precision from an AR platform. Nor do you need an overly expensive Geiselle SSA-E trigger. Those guys suggesting Springfield saints are out of their minds too. Those rifles are known to have issues. Again, that is why I suggest you move this question to the proper forums..
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
. Most first time AR buyers are going to grab a complete rifle. For the money, I don't think there's anything on the market that can match this for a mid-range AR. Buttstock, handguard, grip, trigger guard, trigger, etc are already upgraded from milspec and it's mid-gassed. The Easy Button.
Rock River Arms has some rifles designed for hunting or match shooting that come with a .75" guarantee. My experience is they will do that with good quality factory ammo and handloads can turn in some startling small groups.
This if best accuracy is worth risking a few more dollars.
Originally Posted by Mackay_Sagebrush
You asked about an "accurate" gun. That means different things to many people.
I will skip a bunch of typing and just say this; I would use a White Oak Armament upper in whatever configuration best suited my needs and tastes. I would put it on a good quality lower that had a decent trigger. A good Colt, BCM, whatever. That matters a lot less, as long as it is quality, and assembled by someone who knows what they are doing.
I have used White Oak barrels and uppers in more than 2 dozen builds for guys and all shot very well. Usually using MK262 (77 grain Sierra Matchking), but that was what was available for them at the time and location.
Bottom line is that it is extremely easy to simply put a WOA upper on a good lower and be done.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
I’d get a lower and upper kit from Palmetto State Armory. They build decent stuff for a decent price. It’s entry level but it will get you into the AR world. Once you start shooting that AR, you can decide what you want from there. The possibilities are endless with the AR platform and lots of folks spend crazy money on them.
The lower and upper kit allows you to bypass the Federal tax on a complete rifle.
There’s no way I’d recommend someone pay top dollar for their first AR. It’s not necessary. Save the money for a decent Red Dot. The Sig Romeo 5 Red Dot is a good place to start and end.
And start watching videos on YouTube. Type in AR-15 and you will be entertained for days.
Couple more things, a quality trigger on any AR will greatly improve accuracy. And I’d also suggest a mid-length gas block.
I like Low Power Varible Optics. LPVO is the vernacular you’ll see bandied about by AR folks. Primary Arms offers decent optics for a good price. I’d stick with a 1x6. 1x on a scope like that is more important than the 6x.
Rock River Arms has some rifles designed for hunting or match shooting that come with a .75" guarantee. My experience is they will do that with good quality factory ammo and handloads can turn in some startling small groups.
A good place to start if you don't want to put one together.
It would be wise to decide what configuration you want before you buy. Some stuff is simple to change, others are better purchased at the start. PSA lowers are good, have mil-spec buffer tubes for stock compatibility, and can be had with the Geissle SSA-E trigger. I just bought that model on sale for $300, a good savings.
As mentioned above, a mid-length or even rifle-length gas system is preferred for smoother shooting, and possibly less wear on parts.
Look for good parts in an upper, bolt, carrier, etc. This video series has a lot of good info on what matters and what doesn’t:
Good points about the search for accuracy. Accuracy at the expense of handiness can work against you if you want an all-arounder. My 20” is kind of a pig with a big scope and heavy barrel, so I’m looking around for a carbine upper for normal use.
You asked about an "accurate" gun. That means different things to many people.
I will skip a bunch of typing and just say this; I would use a White Oak Armament upper in whatever configuration best suited my needs and tastes. I would put it on a good quality lower that had a decent trigger. A good Colt, BCM, whatever. That matters a lot less, as long as it is quality, and assembled by someone who knows what they are doing.
I have used White Oak barrels and uppers in more than 2 dozen builds for guys and all shot very well. Usually using MK262 (77 grain Sierra Matchking), but that was what was available for them at the time and location.
Bottom line is that it is extremely easy to simply put a WOA upper on a good lower and be done.
I've got 1 WOA barrel on an SPR build I did, 18" fluted SPR profile. It's shooting very well.
5rds of Sierra 77 grn OTM at 100:
3rds of 77 OTM at 307yds on my turkey swinger head, quit when the bolt head broke off:
I've taken it out to 600 yds and it holds with our .223 bolt guns.
To the OP, it all comes down to task/purpose.. accuracy requirements and budget.
The good news is whatever you get now can be easily modified later if it doesn't match your needs. But as the other guys mentioned, there's a chit load of difference between a defensive carbine set up and a precision rig IE; barrel length, profile, trigger, optic, trigger etc.
Last edited by Chuck_R; 03/31/24.
“Might does not make right but it sure makes what is.”
To me, an AR is first and foremost a rifle with a specific purpose. Accuracy is important, but reliability and the ability to get it on target quickly is the most important factor to me.
You need to state your purpose for the AR long before asking for a recommendation.
There is a lot of fuddlore on this page, it probably isn't the best place to ask for AR knowledge.
"Full time night woman? I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever balled for beads."
To me, an AR is first and foremost a rifle with a specific purpose. Accuracy is important, but reliability and the ability to get it on target quickly is the most important factor to me.
Agreed.. exactly why I have multiple ARs.
The defensive carbines aren't set-up like my 3Gun rig, which isn't set up like my SPR, which isn't set up like my coyote calling carbine. Trying to put something together to be an "all around" usually ends up being mediocre at everything.
This 3Gun AR (ADJ gas block, lightweight BCG, adjustable buffer, short reset trigger, LPVO, louder than hell brake)
has a different task/purpose than this (stock Colt LE6920, RDS, white light):
“Might does not make right but it sure makes what is.”
Those guys suggesting Springfield saints are out of their minds too. Those rifles are known to have issues...
I could not agree more on this point !!!!!!!!!!! The Springfield Saint is a way overpriced entry level AR. My BIL wanted an AR so I told him that I would build him a good one for a reasonable price.......he couldn't wait and rushed out and and bought a Saint "Victor" saying it was the special Saint. not so special an even more overpriced entry level AR......it's had issues
You asked about an "accurate" gun. That means different things to many people.
I will skip a bunch of typing and just say this; I would use a White Oak Armament upper in whatever configuration best suited my needs and tastes. I would put it on a good quality lower that had a decent trigger. A good Colt, BCM, whatever. That matters a lot less, as long as it is quality, and assembled by someone who knows what they are doing.
I have used White Oak barrels and uppers in more than 2 dozen builds for guys and all shot very well. Usually using MK262 (77 grain Sierra Matchking), but that was what was available for them at the time and location.
Bottom line is that it is extremely easy to simply put a WOA upper on a good lower and be done.
I've got 1 WOA barrel on an SPR build I did, 18" fluted SPR profile. It's shooting very well.
5rds of Sierra 77 grn OTM at 100:
3rds of 77 OTM at 307yds on my turkey swinger head, quit when the bolt head broke off:
I've taken it out to 600 yds and it holds with our .223 bolt guns.
To the OP, it all comes down to task/purpose.. accuracy requirements and budget.
The good news is whatever you get now can be easily modified later if it doesn't match your needs. But as the other guys mentioned, there's a chit load of difference between a defensive carbine set up and a precision rig IE; barrel length, profile, trigger, optic, trigger etc.
That right there is why I have put together so many guns using WOA barrels. A number of those uppers found their way overseas, as the guys buying them were using them to do good work. When done right, you can have both an ultra reliable AR that is also superbly reliable.
It is not legal to take privately own weapons overseas, but guys would take uppers and optics. So guys would have me build precision uppers, then bolt them onto their issued M4 carbine lowers, and run MK262 ammo. This gave them the ability to put accurate fire at ranges that were normally beyond the ability of a typical issued M4 barrel.
Now WOA builds complete uppers and you can simply pick up whatever configuration suits your needs rather than have someone put together an SPR "type" rifle. Almost all the guns I built had 16" barrel and the early SPRs were mostly 18" barrel guns. But for guys wanting a single "all around" carbine, the 16" guns were by far the most requested.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.
The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.
You asked about an "accurate" gun. That means different things to many people.
I will skip a bunch of typing and just say this; I would use a White Oak Armament upper in whatever configuration best suited my needs and tastes. I would put it on a good quality lower that had a decent trigger. A good Colt, BCM, whatever. That matters a lot less, as long as it is quality, and assembled by someone who knows what they are doing.
I have used White Oak barrels and uppers in more than 2 dozen builds for guys and all shot very well. Usually using MK262 (77 grain Sierra Matchking), but that was what was available for them at the time and location.
Bottom line is that it is extremely easy to simply put a WOA upper on a good lower and be done.
I agree with this. The WOA complete upper was and still is the easy button for me. I have not shot mine much. But, was surprised/ impressed with the groups with ammo can rounds. The complete units from S&W and Armalite definitely were / are not shabby. But, 2 of the WOA uppers and lowers with decent triggers were unexpectedly surprising for my purpose.
What is a good, accurate AR in 5.56? I'm not looking for a budget gun, but not a gold-plated one either.
My first question would be "what do you mean by accurate", what will you be using it for, and what else is important to you.
a 10 shot gives 2 MOA gun that weights 7.5-8 pounds with an optic, and a weapon light is golden, while a 12 pound gun that shoots 5 into .5MOAis not my cup of tea.
What is a good, accurate AR in 5.56? I'm not looking for a budget gun, but not a gold-plated one either.
My first question would be "what do you mean by accurate", what will you be using it for, and what else is important to you.
a 10 shot gives 2 MOA gun that weights 7.5-8 pounds with an optic, and a weapon light is golden, while a 12 pound gun that shoots 5 into .5MOAis not my cup of tea.
The OP is not answering any questions. Maybe he's still thinking about things? The WOA suggestion was a good one, if looking for a top notch shooting rifle. They have a great reputation. But the OP should answer some questions that were asked, and then maybe we can further point him in the right direction. He could go with a heavy azzed 24" Stag, if he's just looking for a good "accurate" AR..
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
I've got 1 WOA barrel on an SPR build I did, 18" fluted SPR profile. It's shooting very well.
5rds of Sierra 77 grn OTM at 100:
3rds of 77 OTM at 307yds on my turkey swinger head, quit when the bolt head broke off:
I've taken it out to 600 yds and it holds with our .223 bolt guns.
Chuck_R,
Thats pretty impressive. Which WOA Barrel and twist did you use on your SPR build?
Those are very good barrels. All of my rifles have 20" barrels, and shoot exceptionally well. From the factory Colt, to a HBAR Bushmaster and Windham Varmint Exterminators. They are all proven sub moa shooters. That is for 10 shots..
Maybe the OP will chime in and let us know exactly what he's looking for.. Sometimes excellent accuracy/precision can be found in a good barrel like the one shown above. That is just a 20" HBAR Bushmaster. That is my preference in barrel length, for a smooth shooting AR. Along with a rifle length gas system.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
I built middle ground AR’s every few years for my gunsmithing business and sell them, I do it on the fly when someone wants me to build them one but I normally only do that for people folks I know.
Put your money in the barrel and the trigger, then buy good parts - wait until around thanksgiving when all the sales go on. I typically use white oak barrels, and Giessle triggers… with white oak guts.. Then I do the beyond Army Armament AR guys work on it.
Find someone that has taken Gordy Gritters AR building class like that and they can build you one for under 1,200 bucks that will shoot under a dime at 100 yards….
I have 2 left from last year I’ll put up for sale pretty soon… getting time is a bugger these days.
Aero Precision stripped upper & lower, I did lap the upper receiver, but haven't bedded it. Giessele SD-E trigger SLR Rifle Works FF rail and titanium AGB Magpul UBR stock
The gas block journals on the WOAs are a little large to allow fitting, so I used a brake hone on the SLR AGB to fit it.
“Might does not make right but it sure makes what is.”
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