Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Do You Believe In God ?

When you do that, run your car in the garage while you are in it, God kills you. Hey, I think I understand this religion thing!

But not for God, right?

Something physical may be invisible to the naked eye, but it is detectable. We know what the properties of CO2 are because as a gas it is physical and detectable. As with argon, etc, we use it for many different applications, welding and so on.

Ok, if you say so.

Think about what you have written here. Think hard about who this describes.

It describes you, to a T, when it comes to your Hebrew Roots Movement psychobabble.

If you paid attention you would have known that was actually water vapor.

Ummm, Give me one real factoid proving the bigbang, Im listening. If you can give evidence of this big bang, I will change teams.

I believe he may have meant that all science doesn't necessarily pivot on the big bang theory.

Having said that, "give me one factoid that proves" any complex theory is basically impossible. And simplistic.

Matthew 19:26

It is not me that has "established beliefs and agenda". I admit there's a lot I don't know. The record is sparse but it does show a huge rift between Jesus' first churches in the years after his death and a certain revisionist of his message. That is clear. He had to be rescued by the Roman Army.

Jesus clearly did not claim to be God. He talked about God constantly as his father, prayed to God, gave credit to God.

I wasn't there. I could be wrong. I don't have "established beliefs and agenda". But I don't believe God cancelled the covenant and the miracle of the reincarnated nation of Israel is a huge clue. I will keep an open mind but the record of the early Christian followers of Jesus that formed churches in Jerusalem, Asia Minor, and even Ethiopia indicates they maintained a fealty to the Hebrew faith and expelled a preacher that claimed visions to the contrary.

I will keep reading the scriptures that we have and some of the discarded ones, but I cannot find evidence that Jesus claimed he was God. The statement about the Father and I are ONE is ambiguous at the very longest stretch, and I would take it to mean " I speak for my Father who sent me".

Yes He did. Clearly. And His disciples “worshipped” Him because He was God. And they knew it.

I'll just put this in. Matthew 19:26

YES!

Virgil B.

You choose to take it that way so it’ll jive with your already established beliefs and agenda.

The Apostle John also clearly said that Jesus was God.

Think about it

YOU think about it. Honestly for a change.

It's complicated to me. Some verses make a distinction.

- “If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me, but he comes so that the world may learn that I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me.” Jn. 14:28.

- “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.” Jn. 15:1-2.

- “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." Mt 24:36; see also Mk. 13:32.


Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32 seem to suggest that Jesus (“the Son”) is distinct from God because even Jesus will not know of his own second coming ahead of time. If so, this seems to distinguish the Son and the Father as having different levels of knowledge and power.

I think and read about Jesus' ministry a lot. And about the early church led by the men Jesus publicly called. In my mind I argue against and examine my beliefs in an attempt to see if I'm down a wrong road. I will keep that up. Questioning and examining claims by the present day "Christian" mainstream churches is not a sin. Churches that are by the way, mostly the lineal descendants of the Roman church.

I think even you would agree the church completely ran off the rails when it partnered as the enforcement arm of the government. The Jesus that I read the teachings of could never support murder and coercion especially in support of an evil civil government. Back then the church would convict and then turn the "miscreants" over to the civil authorities to be burned alive as a warning to other dissidents. Pretty similar to what the church "leaders" of his day did to Jesus as a message to his followers that they could expect the same.

I'll keep studying and considering the other side that agues against what I've learned from my study so far but I can assure you I'm far from alone in my beliefs.

You may be entirely correct in your belief of the deity of Jesus and the end of the covenant but so far I think not.

God clearly separated the temporary and conditional and fulfilled and retired old covenant that He made with only the ancient Israelites…not to be confused with the everlasting and unconditional Abrahamic Covenant…from the unconditional and everlasting New Covenant that He made through Jesus with ALL of the people in ALL of the world.

Jesus made this crystal clear with His parables of the new wine in old wineskins and a new cloth patch on an old garment. They are incompatible. And this was made crystal clear well before “the church ran off the rails when it partnered with the enforcement arm of the government.”

But the Judaizers ‘still’ taught that a person had to become a Jew and abide by the Law of Moses in order to be a follower of Jesus. So Jesus’ “called” apostle Peter and His own brother James (who was the leader of the church in Jerusalem) unhitched the church from the worldview and value system and regulations of the Law of Moses. They did this at the First Council of Jerusalem, well before “the church ran off the rails when it partnered with the enforcement arm of the government.”

But modern day Judaizers still exist. Clearly.