There's a thread upstairs about the military contract and who did/got what. While interesting, it probably doesn't move the needle for the .mil as much as it changes budget items and supply guys' lives. That's to say - in large, conventional forces, the choice of pistol isn't likely to change the battlefield for them.
While digging for a video which I can't find, I came across 2 other videos I watched a long time ago and gave them another view.
Top tier SOF types discussing Glock vs Sig.
I've never been in a pistol fight. I carried all the time in Texas and that was a bone stock 1911 from Colt. Sold it when I moved. I carry now in WI but not daily. Maybe I should more. Dunno. Anyway - point being, for most of us -we'll not see the amount of rounds these guys do nor will we put as many into humans as they have. I listen to others to gather info and make my own conclusions. Thought others might enjoy this conversation (and you can tell it's not rehearsed) even tho it's a touch long.
For those that don't know -
Mike Glover - Army SOF and contractor DJ Shipley - SEAL Team 10 and DevGru Cole Fackler - SEAL Team 10 and DevGru
They discuss things like trigger resets, instinctive shooting etc.
Always interesting to me to listen to guys talk about what they've arrived upon, how they got there and why/what's important to them.
I don't believe that "Well Socom uses it = must be best and best for me too" - hand size matters, training, etc. BUT without people having discussions from their POV and experiences - you can't understand other people's criteria and steal what does work for you and discard what doesn't. That's the beauty of things these days.
Less dogma for those with an open mind because they've been exposed to a lot more thinking via forums, youtube etc.
I've owned Glock and 1911s - I'm open to trying a Sig which I might not have been in the past.
That was informative and useful, they're not always the same thing. I really liked their rationale behind what they're doing and teaching.
That's one of the best videos I've ever watched. I learned things.
I like the focus on burning good reps and building up against par times.
It seems tho - both Cole and DJ are using compensated pistols, which isn't something I'm used to seeing for "duty carry" types. Makes sense when you think about it but just not something I've seen a lot of. Mike's pistol in the Bill drill was so flat. Minimal flip.
Also love the line "We've all done it, shoot a guy here or here and...." - yeah in THAT room they've all done it - shot a guy but here at home, just me and the cats - not so much.
For the past month I've been mainly carrying a Gen 5 Glock 23 (.40 S&W). Prior to that, for many years, I mainly carried the Gen 5 Glock 26, and before that the Gen 5 Glock 19. Clearly, I like Glocks.
But when I hit the sack, the gun that lays beside me is a Beretta 92 with a light attached, a decock only feature, and a D hammer spring for a lighter double action trigger. The reason being that were I to be awakened from a deep sleep in need of a handgun, I'd rather need to defeat the double action pull on the first shot than a Glock style trigger pull.
Teal, from someone who spent the better part of my early LE career carrying various Glocks from a Glock 22, to Glock 37, 21 and finally a Glock 31 before switching to Sig P226. I think choices may stem from what folks are initially trained on and get somewhat biased opinions based simply on exposure. most of the time there simply isn't going to be multiple brands/ models to explore and play with. One agency I worked part time for carried Beretta 96Ds, after a while of getting used to it I shot that gun very well too. However, when going from that to the Glock 21 issued at the other agency, I har horrible issues getting a consistent grip.
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
Teal, from someone who spent the better part of my early LE career carrying various Glocks from a Glock 22, to Glock 37, 21 and finally a Glock 31 before switching to Sig P226. I think choices may stem from what folks are initially trained on and get somewhat biased opinions based simply on exposure. most of the time there simply isn't going to be multiple brands/ models to explore and play with. One agency I worked part time for carried Beretta 96Ds, after a while of getting used to it I shot that gun very well too. However, when going from that to the Glock 21 issued at the other agency, I har horrible issues getting a consistent grip.
Yeah and I think the videos get to that - Mike being Glock his whole career, the others having recently gone Glock to Sig etc - that training flip and understanding.
As a below average shot with a pistol I tend to stick with what I know. I can shoot a Glock as well as a Sig if I avoid the double to single action guns. It makes no difference I shoot them both equally bad. I have always wondered about the Berretta and sig DS action guns. Do you just throw your first shot away with the DA? The Glock is next to my bed but been shooting long enough to practice trigger discipline even when half asleep.
A quick release mount securely holding a Beretta 92 pointed at the bedroom door with a trip wire attached to the trigger will a) alert you to the presence of an intruder, a and a half) hopefully take care of the problem before you fully awake but if not then b) it will leave the pistol in SA mode for your next shots.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery. Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
As a below average shot with a pistol I tend to stick with what I know. I can shoot a Glock as well as a Sig if I avoid the double to single action guns. It makes no difference I shoot them both equally bad. I have always wondered about the Berretta and sig DS action guns. Do you just throw your first shot away with the DA? The Glock is next to my bed but been shooting long enough to practice trigger discipline even when half asleep.
Early on, it actually was taught by instructors training people in defensive double action auto shooting that you should just waste the first round as you bring the gun up to shooting position, thus placing the gun in single action mode by the time the gun is aimed. This was quickly abandoned, replaced with training the transition from double to single action.
Originally, back when the double action auto was first introduced, the idea was that the first double action shot was for near contact range only, such as if someone was right in front of you, perhaps going for your gun or a grab of your person. For all else, it was taught that the hammer should be manually cocked whenever it wasn't strictly necessary to get a shot off instantly upon draw.
Thanks for posting that..............I'm not on a very fast connection for making streaming very good, but will watch later.
What I can say is that my BIL is ex-Navy Seal & having shot with him on numerous occasions, he is a Sig guy, all day, every day. A 226, which is a full sized gun.
Also, I own several Glocks, several Beretta 92's, including a pair of Compacts, & a couple of Sigs.
All the Beretta's & the Sigs come up & point onto the target much more consistently for me, given my grip & sighting.........the Glocks almost always come up high on whatever the target is & need more adjustment before & can fire.
The Beretta's are tuned to a lighter, smoother DA & SA than stock & the transition from DA to SA is not a problem for me..........some don't like it. I like that it is very safe carrying with chamber loaded & decocked, safety off. The 2 Compacts that I have are my goto EDC & car pistol. A Sig is my house gun & get alternate EDC duty as well.
The Sig's, a 229 Legion & a 226 fit my hand better than anything else, especially the 229 Legion, except for a 1911, & IMO, Sig's 3D sights are the best night sights I've ever used.
Besides, the pointing issue for me with Glocks, their trigger plays hell with my finger in any kind of extended range session. The clearance to the trigger guard is too close. & scrapes up the bottom of the finger.
With limited experience, but over several years & plenty of ammo, all have been equally reliable for me. Ditto for S&W M&P series with several guns there as well.
Glock has the most AM parts available, but Beretta has more than enough available, Sig has the least.
Out of the box, the Sig upgraded (in the Legion) DA trigger is by far the best & most user friendly, IMO; Beretta's are great too once you tune them in.
Lots of personal preferences involved; all work given your preference, I really don't see major differences in performance, mostly just nuances.
More comments after I watch the vids, later.
Interesting to hear others comments in this thread, especially Mackay Sagebrush if he chimes in.
Montana Man - in this video they're talking basically the 320 series of pistols from Sig. Which feel quite a bit different to me than the old P226 types but maybe it's in my head.
I especially liked the discussion around watching yourself put the pistol back in the holster. You just come down off the adrenaline dump of either shooting or deciding not to - give yourself a task to do (view, guide hand/pistol into the holster positively) to help with focus. Beats giving yourself Glock leg or dropping it straight to the deck.
Montana Man - in this video they're talking basically the 320 series of pistols from Sig. Which feel quite a bit different to me than the old P226 types but maybe it's in my head.
The "old" 320 is different for sure; I think more recently, Sig has changed the grips on some or all of the 320 line. Have not handled any current 320's, just looked at the current shape.
The 229 Legion is perfect in my hand, whereas the "old" 320 is not a favorite. My son has a 320 & so I've got to handle & shoot it some................nice piece, just not my preference, given a choice.
Regular 320's are also striker fired, whereas the 229/226 are DA/SA.
Glocks original finish was the best ever, saltwater….
The finish Glock fan boys admire was used from late 1990s to ca. 2012. They call it "frying pan" finish. It is seen on Gen 3 guns but some early Gen 4 guns also have it.
