Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska Lead ban in Alaska

At the Sportsman show there is a booth advocating a lead ban wondered who was behind this did some looking and found this.

https://www.audubon.org/news/new-fe...s-and-fishers-looking-safer-alternatives

Looked like a well funded group to be at the Sportsman show pushing their agenda, big money to have a booth there.

Looks like the audubon society is a bunch of leftist clowns. There's also an article in the link there about a "progressive" condor family with two moms. What a bunch of propaganda.

Our Oregon Moose and Goose organization was on that kick for a couple of years I think mostly due to a push by their then director. Their ambassador displayed images of mostly ground squirrels vaporized with 17's, Swifts, etc. Did not look good. No images though of the lowly 22 LR effects. Never really caught on and the push has pretty much disappeared. We do, however, still have a boatload of hawks, eagles, owls, ravens, crows, magpies, and seasonal vultures.

We have a tendency though of tracking California, and there's a push to bring up some condors.

They could care less about the millions of wind turbines in the Ocean, or the millions of acres of solar panels in Antelope, bird, deer, and other animal habitat, and then prove that their outrage is Politically Motivated.

Went to an Environmental health seminar years ago. This is food code stuff, water treatment plant standards, clinic and hospital operations, infectious disease prevention stuff.

It's an old practice that requires a credential.


Anyhow, at the seminar, there was a foolish idiot from Yukon Kuskokwim Health. He was a UAF guy. Talking lead core bullets and how his "270 with all copper bullets is best. To sink his point home, the fkn moron had slides in his PowerPoint presentation showing x-ray photos of varmints shot with thin jacket varmint bullets!

Alarmed by how the crowd was swayed by this, I spoke up and said it was disingenuous, what he's showing to the audience. That I had slower velocity, larger caliber, lead-core premium bullets recovered from Alaskan game that retain better than 90% of their weight.

How could fkn UAF allow that slanderous [bleep] to be presented to the public?!

When I was a grad student at U of Montana a student did a similar project but his x-ray scans showed birds of prey that had been eating gut piles with traces of lead throughout the bird’s system. Supposedly from C&C or solid lead bullets shedding some of their weight in the lungs/gut piles. That university sponsored the study too but I wouldn’t doubt some of the funding for the study from greenie NGOs.

I have no clue if that student ever had any influence on MT FWP, but I never heard anything more about it.

Live birds, not autopsied dead ones, right?




GR

They fu(ked up the hunting out in California, and it was all the same made up bullshit.




GR

Ron Spomer is a big advocate of copper bullets. He says he doesn't want to see lead banned, but then proceeds to push the same drivel that the anti lead/ lead banners use. Lead shot and lead bullets have minimal secondary effect on wildlife and the environment. A handful of carrion eaters may die each year, but certainly not enough to hurt the population.

I seriously question the whole avian lead poisoning from projectiles. To hear the antis talk, they’d have you believe that every gut pile and wounded/lost animal is riddled with lead particles.

I’m willing to bet we could never see the actual necropsy results of dead avian carrion feeders. Any dead avian carrion feeder will be listed as lead poisoning the same as every hospital death during the scamdemic was attributed to covid.

Another global warming/climate change scam. They're at a sportsmans show because the show promoters don't care about anything but booth income, and sportsmen are stupid enough to suck up leftist propaganda like a chocolate shake on a hot summer afternoon, proving that you don't need to kill your enemy. All you have to do is convince him that death or surrender is the only way to get them to shut their lying mouths (which, of course, is just another damned lie............)

Having a booth to openly oppose hunting sports through an agenda getting support at a Sportsman show is concerning!

And the “show” was probably well aware of the agenda being brought in.

A year or so ago the USFWS published the results of state and their own studies. More lead than expected was found in bald and golden eagles and a larger proportion of golden eagles than more than anticipated significant levels of lead in their systems.

The lead from bullets is unique and can generally be distinguished from other lead sources.

As elkmen1 pointed out, the left wing environmentalists don’t seem to be as concerned about wind turbines, when both turbines and lead are killing a lot of raptors.

Regardless, a prohibition on lead core bullets is likely coming. How it will happen, state by state ban, federal lands ban , or an overall federal ban, will remain to be seen.

In the end, this isn’t much different than the lead shot ban.

Lead ban? Wonder what they think of sinkers, split shot, lead wire for fly tieing, halibut jigs, etc

Those things are in the conversation too.

Sadly, they are too late. Every last Alaskan condor is now extinct.

In Alaska, we'll first see a ban on lead hunting bullets on federal lands. ADFG will ante in not long afterwards. Thankfully, I hunt mostly state lands, one reason being that previous years of moose hunting on federal lands got so onerous.

Copper bullets of equal weight are a lot longer, and with numerous calibers and the required overall cartridge lengths that will fit the action, powder capacities are reduced. I'm not a fan at all. I love velocity with my weight.

A simple solution here. Shoot and use lead anyway. You have to draw a line on stupidity, (and control) somewhere. I have lots of c/c bullets that I am going to continue to use long into the future.

I am a old school hunter that grew up on hunting game, varmints critters with lead core bullets. for the last two years I have deer hunted exclusively with lead free bullets in a 6mm ARC. Other than cost per practice round I see little downside to breaking away from using lead core bullets for hunting.

Guess I am less bothered by the aims of these interest groups than I have been in the past.

Though to be honest I am more concerned by the chemicals widely used in todays farming practices & their impact on wildlife & mankind, than I am by the lead exposure to wildlife & mankind.

I put little stock in any government study anymore, state or federal. I’m sure any evidence that contradicts their agenda is disregarded, dismissed or destroyed. I think we’ve gotten to the point where true science no longer exists. The goal is to ban lead, and ultimately hunting. An objective study in this matter simply isn’t going to happen.

Good for you. Shoot what you want. But you are no friend of sportsmen if you simply shrug and stand aside while such bans are passed. Sometimes silence is golden. Sometimes it’s just plain yellow.

Call me yellow. I've spent a few hundred thousand dollars on lawyers in my life, and I'll be damned if I'll spend more on an issue like this. I'll just get busy reloading copper bullets for hunting and save the lead ones for the revolution you guys start.

Hundreds of thousands? Revolution? Huh??

It costs exactly zero dollars to take a stand. Calling or emailing a Representative is free. Speaking out in your own circle requires only courage and principle. Lots of good Germans stood by while the trains were loaded. 🫤

When the trains were being loaded in Germany, it was done by armed soldiers. FMJ bullets of lead, illegal or not, is perfectly wonderful ammo during such times. As disgusted as I might be with federal copper bullet mandates for hunting, I'll use them if I have to, and yes, save the good stuff for the revolution. Yup, let me write it again: the revolution........the kind Jefferson's letter to William Smith describes which is eventually inevitable.

Until then? Talk doesn't work. I gave up sending Murky emails years ago, and I have no intention whatsoever wasting my time sending emails to Mary Peltola or any state elected official outside my elective district. I spent a few semesters in political science classes, and I know how the system works. Neither Bert Stedmen nor his aides will even waste their time reading my messages after I type my address in their message box (that's why they use them). I don't count, because my vote can neither help or hurt them.

The victims of this type of political banning (shooters) are way too fractured to band together to get anything positive done. I've been a voting member of the NRA for 40 years. I learned long ago that a significant percentage of shooters hate the NRA as much or more than the Sarah Brady Brigade. The lastest LaPierre/North/James bruhaha (coming preciesly as James is conducting legal warfare against her other sworn enemy, D. Trump) is an example of how dismal the situation is, despite a solid 30 years of huge legal wins for gun owners by the NRA in SCOTUS decisions. Indeed, that's why the Left has been attacking ammo: SCOTUS has thrown out nearly all of their legal attacks against guns.

Indeed, there are times when hidden agendas exist in advocacy. Usually it’s easy to see and expose.

The effects of lead on mammals has been known for a century. How it happens has been understood for half a century. Where the lead toxicity in raptors is originating is an easy trail to follow. No conspiracy needed.

All that has to happen is a few western states, a few states in the northern tier, and throw in a province to ban lead core bullets and the cost of production will skyrocket, making it difficult for bullet manufacturers to keep producing.

Everything that has and will be said about lead core bullet prohibition has already been said about lead shot.

Difference is waterfowl hunters were unfamiliar with steel shot whereas today there is 30 years of institutional knowledge with copper bullets in the big game community. And allegedly bismuth is even better than lead shot.

Nobody has been a bigger fan of Partitions than me over the past few decades, I don’t like it one bit, but the science is easy to follow on this one.

Lead Bans are a backdoor attempt to Ban Guns, Ammo , and Hunting Period. The studies are skewed by Paid scientists same as The Globull warming Scam. Its about Money and Control. Lead is another natural substance as is Oil , Natural Gas, CO2 , Etc.
I've been thru severe lead and heavy metals poisoning and I survived after the doctors said I would be dead by 35 . I am 68 now . My exposure came from Industrial / Automotive paint and paint which is far more prevalent than any bullet or shot that sinks in the mud or ends up in the ground , and I can't even count the tonnage of lead from Gasoline along our highways that should have killed us all a long time ago if it was so bad.
I ain't buying what these people are selling....BS.

Then I suspect there's also a whole lot you dont see.

inch by inch, chip chip chip chip.

I see lead bans coming, do I like it "Hell No". Numbers say that no matter what we think we aren't the majority any longer. When my state started talking about going lead free I worked up loads for my coyote rifles using lead free bullets, if the ban came I wouldn't miss a beat and be out hunting instead of knashing my teeth of not being able to hunt becAuse they banned lead bullets. It didn't happen, I still use lead core bullets BUT I have the components and data to keep right on hunting if it does.

Switching from science to statistics; what is the probability of a single raptor dying from ingesting lead and to what cost are we willing to pay to prevent that?
To Economics
What is the opportunity cost of spending that money on lead reduction versus spending it on cancer research in humans?
Lastly: Differentiate the “harm” quotient of lead in bullets to the lithium in batteries.

Best regards,
F01

I've long believed that lead bans don't have anything to do with raptor death. That's just the line the anti's push. It has to do with making it to expensive for ordinary people to shoot. Mb

At age 88, I'm still a handloader, shooter and hunter. My first hunting rifle used a cartridge containing priming material, powder and a lead bullet. It was a single-shot .22LR. I still have two of 'em, one a very accurate CZ bolt-action and the other a much older Rem semi 597. They still shoot lead. In addition, I've been a handloader for over 40 yrs. The vast majority of those thousands of rounds from .223 to .458 have had lead cores, and some cast lead. More recently, due to scarcity of most reloading "stuff", I've had to go Barnes TSX and TTSX. I prefer Noslers, and still have some Partitions and ABs on hand. In the past (and still) use a lot of Hornady SP-RPs and DGX. Also some Speers and Woodleighs.

The point? I don't have any signs of lead poisoning that's been dected or apparent. I do have a couple of ailements that were received from ancestry: diabetes and arthritis, which are under control when I do my part (keeping active) and taking meds.

A lot of so-called "science" is pseudo-science, based on hearsay, fear, politics and believed lies. A lie makes it around the earth (several times) while truth is getting its shoes on! Jesus said: "The devil is a lier and the father of lies"!

I watched a video a few years ago of an interview of perhaps the world's greatest climatologist: I forget his name off the top of my head: But he was an American head of that department in two renowned usinversities: MIT and Havard. He had written peer reviewed papers and books on the subject of climatology, and was highly respected and honored. By the time of that interview he was retired and no longer listened to! In summary, regarding global warming, he said there was nothing new in that science as the earth has gone through cycles since records have been kept (and he gave data and references as well as explaining in a clear and concise manner). His view of the current "science" was that it was ignoring history and a lot of other natural causes and focusing on carbon, and man's industral involvement far too much to the exclusion of history's cycles and natural global weather phenomonon, as well as the sun's own variable cycles.

Having been an amateur astronomer and telescope builder for many years, and a member of The Royal Astronomical Society of Canada, I've observed much of the same kind of "it looks like" science, despite other viable theories.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

these dam liberal demorats are trying to ban lead in Minnesota this year too , here in Minnesota the liberals are using school youth state trap shooting as their formant saying these youths are getting lead poisoning from the shooting of lead in trap shells and touching the ammo too. it is just bull chit and its 2 female liberals pushing this law at the state capitol this year 2024 . the big thing is no kid has ever been sick or hurt from shooting trap yet and the state school shoot 10,000 kids compete and no one has hurt a toe nail in 10 years or longer yet. its all bull chit ! Pete53

I’d venture a guess that raptor deaths from wind powered generators exceeds raptor deaths by lead ingestion by 100 to 1. And that’s likely too conservative. Probably 10 times that.

but the peta liberals know it because they feel they are doing the green thing with wind mills, liberals really want to ban guns so they are trying one piece at a time.

Anti-lead is anti-hunting. Pure and simple.

Explain to me how it is anti hunting.

Agreed. It's the anti-gun zealots married up with the environmental zealots using a justification that the courts have been allowing, especially since the federal and state 2nd Amendments have successfully shut down public disarming schemes. Funny thing; considering this situation, I came to realize that my favorite stocked military rifle ammo loads are steel core........both Chinese 7.62x39 and M855........No lead. Both loads were targeted by the government years ago as "cop killer" and "armor piercing". The Chinese ammo was successfully banned from importation. Indeed, importing ammo into Alaska from the Lower 48 was severely restricted utilizing DOT hazardous materials regulation over 20 years ago, and which has only recently been overcome with addition shipping fees with a only a single carrier/forwarder.

You have to purposely ignore the facts to believe that this is all accidental or coincidental. It's just more of the same; political and legal warfare. The kind that the political/lawyer class excel at, and the working class grudgingly allows........as long as society continues to be held together with their rotting rubber bands. But the times continue to become increasingly worrisome, and as worrisome as they are for me, I'm warmed by the thought that they must be quite terrifying for those in power..........

It's not about saving some birds and varmints. It's about control and ending a way of life.

If my state bans lead, I'm going to keep using it anyway. I would suggest that by " working up a lead free load so that you can hunt coyotes," you are capitulating to these groups pushing the lead ban. Again, this isn't about lead, or lead free, this is about controlling what you can and can't do. I refuse to participate.

Agree it’s about control.

Covid was but a test run.

I’m glad some are working to improve mono bullets, so if and when idiots ban lead, we’ll have some decent choices.

Check out Hammer, Cutting Edge and Lehigh. They have some interesting features, and are challenging Barnes.

Competition is never a bad thing for us consumers. We win.

DF

This here is precisely what I meant:


I've been jailed and paid the financial costs for intentional civil disobedience before. I know how it works. Been there, done that. That was just a tad of the "hundreds of thousands" in lawyer fees I've spent during the course of my life. atse's turn, and I wish him all the best........but I won't be donating to his legal defense fund, because nobody donated to mine. No bad feelings towards him at all. My beef is with paying the political/lawyer class.

The legal fees you paid would have a lasting effect on anyone. I'm glad you came out ok on the other side. But the fact is that if we continue in appeasement, then little by little we will have nothing left. Everybody has to draw their own line in the sand and stand on principle. I'm not shooting copper bullets unless I want to, and I am not paying a lawyer to figure it out for me.

Thanks. I'm lucky. No, actually, blessed. But at my age now, I have to be careful. My earning years are over.

If the feds pull this off (and they will), a violation will be a federal rap. This makes it quite serious. It's the longest arm that the law has. I've been involved in just one federal case, and thankfully, I was just a witness.

I baited bears the very last spring it was legal in the Kenai National Wildlife Refuge. We were all told they were going to close it off, and ADFG fought them politically, but I had no doubt of the outcome. That was essentially the payback for ADFG conducting a bear survey and scientifically proving that there were more than 700 brown bears on the peninsula while the feds were saying that there were under 300 and trying to close off brown bear hunting there altogether. That's how those zealots roll.

For Joe Sixpack, a federal rap can be painful, and it follows you forever and everywhere. Initial convictions aren't bad at $1000 fine and 6 months in jail, but subsequent offenses are felonies with fines of $5000-$10,000 and 5-10 years in federal incarceration. And bye bye guns.

It might just be better to avoid federal lands like I do now. I like hunting the edges of federal parks. All those protected animals have to go somewhere eventually. Who knows? One day we might see the feds building walls around their parks to keep "their" animals in while ignoring the needed wall to keep military aged invaders out...........

atse, we have seatbelts, catalytic converters, diesel additives, GFI outlets in kitchens and bathroom, there are a lot of regulations we abide by. I'm not going to break the law to make a point that will just get me in trouble, might take away my hunting rights, just because I have to use a different(still effective) bullet. I've been shooting steel and bismuth at waterfowl since the late 1970's it has never affected me in the slightest other than when they mandated steel it was hard to find and no components available but we found enough to keep right on hunting. We didn't quit because of the lead ban as many did. I've had some of my best hunting seasons since the ban, mainly because Im older, smarter and care more about hunting than the shot I have to use.

One of the problems with living in a litigious society is that everybody who hopes to survive must think like like a lawyer to some extent. So as I consider this topic, thoughts come, and the magic of the internet allows research.

My interest in the struggle between ADFG and federal agencies over fish and wildlife management is a subject of great interest to me. I'm not stupid enough to even imagine that my opinion matters, but I'm conniving enough to know that wrenches can cause great damage to the machines I dislike when tossed into the gearbox instead of turning nuts.

Thus the thought came to me: This is Alaska. It is full of bears, the feds want more of them, and federal lands within suitable bear habitats already have the highest densities of bears on Earth. Defensive firearms are and always have been a fact of life in Alaska, even with federal wildlife professionals. Do they carry lead-free ammo in their service weapons? Since firearms can be carried for defensive purposes even for people who are not carrying hunting licenses, the POSSESSION of leaded ammo on federal lands in defensive firearms shouldn't be banned.

Sure enough, I googled up queries using the keywords "possession" "lead" "ammo" "federal lands", and various keywords like those in various combinations. I got no meaningful hits regarding federal lands, and even few official hits regarding lead bird shot violations and penalties (lots of forum discussion by hunters, though), but I did come across hits regarding California's ban on lead ammo for all hunting. My reading revealed that the possession of lead ammo in the field in California, when not hunting, is perfectly legal in most circumstances.

In early August of 2005 I was running north on the Old Man Creek Trail from Eureka with rifle, camp, hunting license, and caribou permit in possession. South of Crooked Creek I came upon a Trooper (blue shirt) "interviewing" a couple of young hunters. He asked me to stop until he was finished with his customers. I did, and enjoyed the interesting show. When they left, it was my turn. First, he asked me for my license. I asked in reply why I needed one. I had no dead animal in my possession, and I had not shot at one.

That's how the exchange went. It was a legal dance the entire way. It was perfectly cordial, too. I learned quite a bit from the dance, and it helped my dance steps for the future. In the end, I showed him my documentation, and gave him my phone number and the description of my rig at the highway (but not my license plate number, because I don't memorize such trivia) after asking wh6 I should give him said information. I then gave him directions, because he was lost!!!

Bottom line? One can be on wild public lands, armed, and anonymous under most circumstances. But I'll always carry some form of official ID, just to prevent being "detained", although I'm tempted to respond to the next officer by speaking in espanol, just for sheets and grins, if I have some time to waste.

Lawfare is a game. I can play, but only for fun, and I don't expect to "win"..........only to to learn, or passively resist when there's no downside.

I've done the same. Especially since, like you, I enjoy shooting older guns. I'll hunt either way. In the bigger picture, though, more restrictions increase cost and decrease participation. That impacts us all. I agree with those who state that the issue is really about control. The Leftists hate you. They'd like you dead. Since they can't do that (yet), they will attempt to tax and regulate you into oblivion. Once you (and me) are out of the picture, controlling the rest will be that much easier.

I hate low flow toilets and low flow blocks in plumbing faucets. I ended up going with residential pressure assist toilets (cuz' I can't easily rebuild toilets) and ripping the low flow blocks out of all my faucets. I'm on a well. The feds are powerless to stop me.

Technically I agree that copper bullets are better. have been for years. But not for a worry of a bit of lead here and there....

Low flow toilets actually work pretty well. IF the drain pipe is the correct size...

Of course its easy to avoid all this... just like you do. We do the same to all of ours.

Just go along, smile, and tell them that you'll be saving your lead for "non-hunting uses". Learn how to generate a gleam in your eye upon desire.

Federal law on steel for waterfowl since the 80s? IIRC. Yet we still have same numbers of waterfowl on average. So I would say the lead shot ban did about nothing.

It certainly helps almost none unless you have hard pan bottom. You can't find lead shot on top with water motion etc... very shortly after it settles to the bottom it sinks.

Guess where I find most lead shot? Trying to pan for gold...... that tells you a LOT

I met Trooper Joe while hunting up there a couple years ago. He flew his blue and yellow floatplane into the lake where we were dropped. I think he may have been the nicest cop I've ever met; and I know a bunch. I would even comply with ammo restrictions if necessary. I do so now for waterfowl. Just the same, I'd actively oppose any widening of lead restrictions. I do not believe they serve any logical purpose and, as stated above, think that they are part of another whole agenda.

Not in my experience, at least with the traditional calibers I've grown up using. I'm sure the technology will get much better, but I'm really not interested in playing along. I've only got a few more years of big game hunting left, and I'm pretty sad that caribou numbers have crashed for a long count. Now I've got to go back to wrestling those damned heavy moose again.

I stopped hunting waterfowl not long after my teens. It wasn't the lead shot ban, but the realization that waterfowl swim in polluted waters regularly. I was involved in the Eagle River Flats deal with the Army, and already knew about the agricultural pollution they swim in on the west coast. But I've always hunted upland birds.........with lead, although my wife hates spitting shot out at the table. I LOVE dove hunting in Arizona, but only after the snakes brumate. I'm renewing interest in duck hunting. When I'm finally too old to wrestle dead moose, I think I'll start again.

Just tell them "We deal in lead friend"

quote by: Steve McQueen The Magnificent Seven

If you haven't had luck with hammer or TTSX then you have other problems using mono bullets but regardless we all get to use whatever we want if its legal.

With all due respect, I am going to break the law to make a point if it becomes necessary. It will be a lead ban today, then something else then something else, then your a serf. I am not going to participate. I am not going to be the frog in the pot.

I actually haven't reloaded any because they're so long per weight, my powder capacity is reduced, and I'm in love with velocity. I've tried manufactured copper bullets in a 30-30 in California at the range. I didn't run them through the chronograph. This was just before California banned lead for hunting. They shot fine, I guess.

Hell, I wasn't even hunting quail in California while down there. We'd drive to Arizona for dove and quail. I guess I'm just happier walking away from a lousy landowner than play his games.

Joe, out of Dillingham?
He very possibly is the nicest and most professional warden I have ever crossed paths with.

The very same. A credit to his profession, IMO.

Copper is your baby then. You shoot 1-2 groups lighter in weight for the performance. So the bullet length is the same give or take as your heavier CC bullet. You can up the speed. All in favor of you and your desires then.

FWIW my life and my clients life is in my hands at times. Or could be all the time. I carry no CC. All I carry is barnes. They usually exit. Even on Brown bears at hard angles. I'm shooting a 458 win mag as an example but using 350 barnes. 400 would be ideal. IE lighter. Faster. Hold together.... 8.5 foot not dead bear I shot as it got out of the bed at 30 feet. Rump was about all I had on hands and knees. That bullet and others came out behind the shoulder. One I did find halfway out the skin. 350 grains.

Lets see a CC do that.

and yes. Lead bans are a bunch of BS. I hate them and am against them every where I see them come up.

Well, I guess I need to start loading up some Barnes bullets to experiment with in the 300WM and 338WM. It has been four years since the last Great Ammo Shortage started, and I'm just finishing loading up a stock of Accubonds and A-Frames for my rifles. The feds must have heard about it, so they're going to pull this stunt now.

There's a guy on another forum I used to hang out in who was getting me half interested in Tesla vehicles. EVs are yet another mandate that the feds are pushing on us, but it's beginning to look like their mandates will destroy the automakers financially. Let's see if they can bankrupt ammo manufacturers just before WWIII starts.

BTW, did y'all know that the Army has recently refurbished their ammo plants and reopened a few that had been mothballed?

I was at the show Friday evening and saw these guys. I did take the little postcard for the free copper ammunition. If you scan the barcode on it, it takes you the California Fish and Game sight. Once I saw that I was done with it. I like Barnes bullets, but I’m not for a lead ban at all. My thoughts on it, is that it would eventually bleed over into not just hunting but even target practice at the range etc.

LOL........yup. In the 1990's there was a bit of word play on Ft. Rich about "green bullets". The environmental cops within the Army were focusing on lead in the exterior ranges throughout post, and since M855 was steel core, and it had green colored tips, it came to be known as "green"..........as environmentally friendly ammo with which to kill people.

There was also an incredibly expensive and troublesome contract to remediate the lead in an indoor handgun range between 2005-2011 timeframe. Lots of headaches with that one. I was thankful it wasn't my job.

There was an old range on an Indian reservation at Pala, California, where I shot NRA matches at that closed several years ago. The tribe was troubled with the almost certain environmental liability in their future. That's the story throughout the state. If you own the land where a range is, you're going to have trouble.

We cannot allow a lead ban to happen if we can avoid it.

That said Mono bullets are good things. Electric vehicles work. The motors work really well. But for the use of most things vehicle size the way we use them, they are a joke. I would not trade my dewalt tools though...

And trying our best to tell them to shove the EV mandate up their azz too...

As to ranges. We have had them on our property forever. I don't think it would be good for them to come looking or telling us anything about them.

I do not want to be spot-checked more questions, by the Feds checking for lead bullets have enough negative interface with them in the field already!

let alone alone the elephants or wooly mammouth ...

cant wait to hear about copper poisinning and the only way to stop that will stop hunting ...

Funny thing about this thread. I got an email Thursday about a group advocating for copper bullets, but they claim they are not for a lead ban. The article was saying that copper should be encouraged, but not made the law, etc., and that they are only concerned with it for hunting purposes. I’m all for it being a personal choice, but mandatory no. The name of this group I can’t recall, but it was not similar to the group at the outdoor show.

I think in the most recent Sports Afield magazine, there is a group calling for a ban on plastic shotgun wads. This “surf group” claims that shotgun wads are the number one plastic they find washed up in their area.

There is an underlying issue if there is a "group" pushing copper bullets.

I simply think they perform more reliably than any cup and core I"ve shot so I use them and encourage others.

But why would I form a group... There is something there not being said.

Maybe if they banned lead in Alaska, the likes of Betty Sue would quit eating it and there would be fewer R-tards in the world.

Maybe 10 years ago the refuge manager of the Alaska peninsula and Becharof NWR required all guides operating on the refuges to fill out a questionnaire on all their hunters, including bird and waterfowl hunters. From it they extrapolated that yearly there was less than one pellet per acre/ per year used. And therefore there was no need for any additional rules on use of lead

To use lead-free or not should be up to the individual.

That said, the political machine that serves certain interest groups agendas realizes that they will never be able to ban guns in this country. So they are going to make it just as miserable, inconvenient and expensive as possible to own guns/shoot guns/go hunting.

Dear Lord, please come quickly.

Great factoid to share there. It's a classic example of a false hope that local managers can illicit. As a former fed, my bet is that the refuge management at the time was under some level of pressure to address the issue by their handlers back east. They came up with an excellent way to keep the lawyers and pseudo-scientists at bay. Given the level of human pressure there compared to, say, the Kenai NWR, that study will likely work for Becharof NWR.........until some Washington bureaucrat/tyrant creates a universal reg that a clownish POTUS might sign that all refuges must adhere to.

My gun, my choice.

These guys just piss me off. I can just see a guy with his flintlock using mono copper bullets.
I can get by with Barnes bullets but I don’t need some son of a bitch telling me what I have to do.

I can way more than get by with mono. Best performing for lots of what we do by far over other options.

That said I don't need some sob telling me what I have to do either! Totally agree