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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Feral_American
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Feral_American
Originally Posted by DBT
There are several contradictory accounts of the tomb incident.

''There are other discrepancies, but this is enough. I should stress that some of these differences can scarcely be reconciled unless you want to do a lot of imaginative interpretive gymnastics, of the kind fundamentalists love to do, when reading the texts. For example, what does one do with the fact that the women apparently meet different persons at the tomb? In Mark it is one man, in Luke it is two men, and in Matthew it is one angel.

The way this discrepancy is sometimes reconciled,by readers who can’t believe there could be a genuine discrepancy in the text, is by saying that the women actually met two angels at the tomb. Matthew mentions only one of them, but never denies there was a second one; moreover, the angels were in human guise, so Luke claims they were two men; Mark also mistakes the angels as men but mentions only one, not two, without denying there were two. And so the problem is easily solved! But it is solved in a very curious way indeed.

This solution is saying, in effect, that what really happened is what is not narrated by any of the Gospels: for none of them mentions two angels! This way of interpreting the texts does so by writing a new text that is unlike any of the others, so as to reconcile them to one another. You are certainly free to write your own Gospel if that’s what you want to do, but I wonder if that is the best way to interpret the Gospels that you already have.

https://ehrmanblog.org/fuller-account-of-resurrection-discrepancies/

But explain where the body of Jesus went.

We'll wait.......

You're presuming there was a body.

You're presuming there was a Jesus.

Oh, ok, back to you.

Prove there wasn't a Jesus, prove there wasn't a body.......

Go take a high school logic class, then you might be worth debating.

Speaking of logic, and your willingness to imply yourself overloaded with it......

How's that Miracle of Life thing going.

Making any progress?


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Originally Posted by Feral_American
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Feral_American
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Feral_American
Originally Posted by DBT
There are several contradictory accounts of the tomb incident.

''There are other discrepancies, but this is enough. I should stress that some of these differences can scarcely be reconciled unless you want to do a lot of imaginative interpretive gymnastics, of the kind fundamentalists love to do, when reading the texts. For example, what does one do with the fact that the women apparently meet different persons at the tomb? In Mark it is one man, in Luke it is two men, and in Matthew it is one angel.

The way this discrepancy is sometimes reconciled,by readers who can’t believe there could be a genuine discrepancy in the text, is by saying that the women actually met two angels at the tomb. Matthew mentions only one of them, but never denies there was a second one; moreover, the angels were in human guise, so Luke claims they were two men; Mark also mistakes the angels as men but mentions only one, not two, without denying there were two. And so the problem is easily solved! But it is solved in a very curious way indeed.

This solution is saying, in effect, that what really happened is what is not narrated by any of the Gospels: for none of them mentions two angels! This way of interpreting the texts does so by writing a new text that is unlike any of the others, so as to reconcile them to one another. You are certainly free to write your own Gospel if that’s what you want to do, but I wonder if that is the best way to interpret the Gospels that you already have.

https://ehrmanblog.org/fuller-account-of-resurrection-discrepancies/

But explain where the body of Jesus went.

We'll wait.......

You're presuming there was a body.

You're presuming there was a Jesus.

Oh, ok, back to you.

Prove there wasn't a Jesus, prove there wasn't a body.......

Go take a high school logic class, then you might be worth debating.

Speaking of logic, and your willingness to imply yourself overloaded with it......

How's that Miracle of Life thing going.

Making any progress?

You debate like a 6 year old.

Like I've said, once you've completed a high school level logic class it might be worth having a discussion with you.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Feral_American
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Feral_American
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Feral_American
Originally Posted by DBT
There are several contradictory accounts of the tomb incident.

''There are other discrepancies, but this is enough. I should stress that some of these differences can scarcely be reconciled unless you want to do a lot of imaginative interpretive gymnastics, of the kind fundamentalists love to do, when reading the texts. For example, what does one do with the fact that the women apparently meet different persons at the tomb? In Mark it is one man, in Luke it is two men, and in Matthew it is one angel.

The way this discrepancy is sometimes reconciled,by readers who can’t believe there could be a genuine discrepancy in the text, is by saying that the women actually met two angels at the tomb. Matthew mentions only one of them, but never denies there was a second one; moreover, the angels were in human guise, so Luke claims they were two men; Mark also mistakes the angels as men but mentions only one, not two, without denying there were two. And so the problem is easily solved! But it is solved in a very curious way indeed.

This solution is saying, in effect, that what really happened is what is not narrated by any of the Gospels: for none of them mentions two angels! This way of interpreting the texts does so by writing a new text that is unlike any of the others, so as to reconcile them to one another. You are certainly free to write your own Gospel if that’s what you want to do, but I wonder if that is the best way to interpret the Gospels that you already have.

https://ehrmanblog.org/fuller-account-of-resurrection-discrepancies/

But explain where the body of Jesus went.

We'll wait.......

You're presuming there was a body.

You're presuming there was a Jesus.

Oh, ok, back to you.

Prove there wasn't a Jesus, prove there wasn't a body.......

Go take a high school logic class, then you might be worth debating.

Speaking of logic, and your willingness to imply yourself overloaded with it......

How's that Miracle of Life thing going.

Making any progress?

You debate like a 6 year old.

Like I've said, once you've completed a high school level logic class it might be worth having a discussion with you.

There is no debate to be had. Without God, there is no Life.

It really is that simple, which is shocking that such an enlightened individual such as yourself can not even begin to grasp it.

You have no argument to bring to this table, you are irrelevant.


I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children may live in peace. ~~ Thomas Paine
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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Team finds over 30 strains of C-19, and they do not kill equally.

Li's team found that some of the most aggressive strains of the virus were able to generate 270 times the viral load as the weakest strains; in addition, the aggressive strains killed the human cells fastest.

More than 30 different mutations of the virus were detected, of which 19 were previously undiscovered.

https://www.foxnews.com/science/coronavirus-mutated-at-least-30-different-strains-study-finds

The novel coronavirus has mutated into at least 30 different genetic variations, according to a new study in China.

The results showed that medical officials have vastly underestimated the overall ability of the virus to mutate, in finding that different strains have affected different parts of the world, leading to potential difficulties in finding an overall cure.

The study, which was carried out by professor Li Lanjuan and colleagues from Zhejiang University in Hangzhou, China, was published in a non-peer reviewed paper released on Sunday.

The researchers analyzed the strains from 11 randomly chosen coronavirus patients from Hangzhou, where there have been 1,264 reported cases, and then tested how efficiently they could infect and kill cells. China's coronavirus numbers, however, have been questioned, as they have not been verified.

More than 30 different mutations of the virus were detected, of which 19 were previously undiscovered.

“Sars-CoV-2 has acquired mutations capable of substantially changing its pathogenicity,” Li wrote in the paper.

As of Tuesday afternoon, COVID-19 has infected more than 804,000 people in the United States and killed at least 43,200. More than 4 million tests have been conducted in the U.S., but experts believe that number must be increased in order to reopen society. Worldwide, there are at least 2.5 million cases of the disease.

Li's team found that some of the most aggressive strains of the virus were able to generate 270 times the viral load as the weakest strains; in addition, the aggressive strains killed the human cells fastest.

According to their findings, the "true diversity" of the viral strains is underappreciated and must be understood in order to find a treatment or vaccine.

"Drug and vaccine development, while urgent, need to take the impact of these accumulating mutations, especially the founding mutations, into account to avoid potential pitfall," the authors wrote.


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Originally Posted by alwaysoutdoors
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Team finds over 30 strains of C-19, and they do not kill equally.

Li's team found that some of the most aggressive strains of the virus were able to generate 270 times the viral load as the weakest strains; in addition, the aggressive strains killed the human cells fastest.

More than 30 different mutations of the virus were detected, of which 19 were previously undiscovered.

https://www.foxnews.com/science/coronavirus-mutated-at-least-30-different-strains-study-finds

The novel coronavirus has mutated into at least 30 different genetic variations, according to a new study in China.

The results showed that medical officials have vastly underestimated the overall ability of the virus to mutate, in finding that different strains have affected different parts of the world, leading to potential difficulties in finding an overall cure.

The study, which was carried out by professor Li Lanjuan and colleagues from Zhejiang University in Hangzhou, China, was published in a non-peer reviewed paper released on Sunday.

The researchers analyzed the strains from 11 randomly chosen coronavirus patients from Hangzhou, where there have been 1,264 reported cases, and then tested how efficiently they could infect and kill cells. China's coronavirus numbers, however, have been questioned, as they have not been verified.

More than 30 different mutations of the virus were detected, of which 19 were previously undiscovered.

“Sars-CoV-2 has acquired mutations capable of substantially changing its pathogenicity,” Li wrote in the paper.

As of Tuesday afternoon, COVID-19 has infected more than 804,000 people in the United States and killed at least 43,200. More than 4 million tests have been conducted in the U.S., but experts believe that number must be increased in order to reopen society. Worldwide, there are at least 2.5 million cases of the disease.

Li's team found that some of the most aggressive strains of the virus were able to generate 270 times the viral load as the weakest strains; in addition, the aggressive strains killed the human cells fastest.

According to their findings, the "true diversity" of the viral strains is underappreciated and must be understood in order to find a treatment or vaccine.

"Drug and vaccine development, while urgent, need to take the impact of these accumulating mutations, especially the founding mutations, into account to avoid potential pitfall," the authors wrote.
That article is 4 years old and was unnecessarily alarmist at the time, claiming an almost 1/20th fatality rate. Have not we learned quite a bit since then? Or was there another point to be illustrated?


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Originally Posted by Feral_American
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Feral_American
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Feral_American
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Feral_American
Originally Posted by DBT
There are several contradictory accounts of the tomb incident.

''There are other discrepancies, but this is enough. I should stress that some of these differences can scarcely be reconciled unless you want to do a lot of imaginative interpretive gymnastics, of the kind fundamentalists love to do, when reading the texts. For example, what does one do with the fact that the women apparently meet different persons at the tomb? In Mark it is one man, in Luke it is two men, and in Matthew it is one angel.

The way this discrepancy is sometimes reconciled,by readers who can’t believe there could be a genuine discrepancy in the text, is by saying that the women actually met two angels at the tomb. Matthew mentions only one of them, but never denies there was a second one; moreover, the angels were in human guise, so Luke claims they were two men; Mark also mistakes the angels as men but mentions only one, not two, without denying there were two. And so the problem is easily solved! But it is solved in a very curious way indeed.

This solution is saying, in effect, that what really happened is what is not narrated by any of the Gospels: for none of them mentions two angels! This way of interpreting the texts does so by writing a new text that is unlike any of the others, so as to reconcile them to one another. You are certainly free to write your own Gospel if that’s what you want to do, but I wonder if that is the best way to interpret the Gospels that you already have.

https://ehrmanblog.org/fuller-account-of-resurrection-discrepancies/

But explain where the body of Jesus went.

We'll wait.......

You're presuming there was a body.

You're presuming there was a Jesus.

Oh, ok, back to you.

Prove there wasn't a Jesus, prove there wasn't a body.......

Go take a high school logic class, then you might be worth debating.

Speaking of logic, and your willingness to imply yourself overloaded with it......

How's that Miracle of Life thing going.

Making any progress?

You debate like a 6 year old.

Like I've said, once you've completed a high school level logic class it might be worth having a discussion with you.

There is no debate to be had. Without God, there is no Life.

It really is that simple, which is shocking that such an enlightened individual such as yourself can not even begin to grasp it.

You have no argument to bring to this table, you are irrelevant.

Abiogenesis requires proper initial conditions, chemistry, and time, a lot of time. 4.5 billion years is a long time, over 1.6 trillion days.

For you, that's seems to be more than you can comprehend, so you substitute something you can understand, a magical being. You chose the Christian God, but the Magical Flying Spaghettis Monster has just as much explanatory power as your god, or pixies, unicorns, a magical inter-dimensional ham sandwich, any other creation myth for that matter.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Nacre and porcine come to mind.........


"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867

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I think the easiest way to dispel young earth creationism is rock layers. There are rock layers even on the highest mountains. How'd they get there? Dirt and mud flow off high areas and dump onto low-lying areas. So if the earth was only 6000 years old a great flood would not put layers on mountains.

Since there are layers on high mountains that proves mountains were at one time low-lying plains. There was once a sea where the Rocky Mountains are.

Every spot on Earth was once low lying. Every spot on Earth was once high elevation.

This is incontrovertible proof to anyone willing to think.

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While I have participated in some of these discussions peripherally, and occasionally when approached/addressed directly...

I do not understand why some would continue to directly engage when the other party has seen or heard HIS voice, and then overtly, directly, without equivocation, state that it was not there or was false, and HE does not exist...

JMHO


"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867

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Originally Posted by Muffin
While I have participated in some of these discussions peripherally, and occasionally when approached/addressed directly...

I do not understand why some would continue to directly engage when the other party has seen or heard HIS voice, and then overtly, directly, without equivocation, state that it was not there or was false, and HE does not exist...

JMHO

Such claims cannot be independently verified.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Some people are seemingly concerned about discrepancies in the New Testament manuscripts. For example, the eyewitness details: one document says there was one angel at the tomb; another document says there were two angels at the tomb. Another document says such-and-such a person got to the tomb first, and another document implies that other people got to the tomb first.

These kind of minor differences are exactly what we should expect from eyewitness details. Any judge that has two or more eyewitnesses that come into his courtroom and give word-for-word testimony exactly about what happened…especially all of the minor details…is going to immediately assume that these eyewitnesses are in collusion. And they would be. Because eyewitnesses agree on the major event. Jesus was resurrected. They may disagree over the minor details.

When the Titanic sank in 1912, some of the eyewitnesses said the Titanic went down while; others eyewitnesses said it broke in half before it went down. Does one conclude the Titanic didn’t sink because the eyewitnesses disagree…? No. They all agree that the Titanic sank. They agree on the major event, even though they may disagree over the minor details.

The same thing is true about Jesus’ resurrection. The eyewitnesses may disagree about how many angels were there, or who got to the tomb first. But they all agree that Jesus was resurrected. And that’s the main point about Christianity. There was a resurrection and that’s what ALL of the eyewitnesses say.


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Only God knows the age of the Earth.


"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
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There are those here who have made it crystal clear that they still would NOT become a Christian even if they KNEW for a fact and without a doubt that Christianity was true (which proves that their position has ZERO to do with truth and logic and reason and science and evidence). Their position is clearly a matter of the heart.


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Originally Posted by antlers
There are those here who have made it crystal clear that they still would NOT become a Christian even if they KNEW for a fact and without a doubt that Christianity was true (which proves that their position has ZERO to do with truth and logic and reason and science and evidence). Their position is clearly a matter of the heart.


A hard heart. The proud man will suddenly be broken, and that without remedy.


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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Abiogenesis requires proper initial conditions, chemistry, and time, a lot of time. 4.5 billion years is a long time, over 1.6 trillion days.

For you, that's seems to be more than you can comprehend, so you substitute something you can understand, a magical being. You chose the Christian God, but the Magical Flying Spaghettis Monster has just as much explanatory power as your god, or pixies, unicorns, a magical inter-dimensional ham sandwich, any other creation myth for that matter.

Studies, theories, and hypothesis........nothing proven, and it's well conceded that the derivation of the LUCA is, well, UNKNOWN.

It's also well conceded that abiogenisis has never been witnessed experimentally. Yeah, 1.6 trillion days, blah blah blah. We went from bare feet to traveling space in only a few centuries, smoke signals to cell phones in only a few centuries. We can make atoms dance and split in half.....but can't make inanimate substances live and breath.

Life started somewhere and even the brightest scientific minds known to man can't explain it. I find it more than hilarious that the bedrock of your belief system is the unexplained, unproven, and unknown. Sarcasm? Yep, dripping with it.


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Originally Posted by Durango_Dave
I think the easiest way to dispel young earth creationism is rock layers. There are rock layers even on the highest mountains. How'd they get there? Dirt and mud flow off high areas and dump onto low-lying areas. So if the earth was only 6000 years old a great flood would not put layers on mountains.

Since there are layers on high mountains that proves mountains were at one time low-lying plains. There was once a sea where the Rocky Mountains are.

Every spot on Earth was once low lying. Every spot on Earth was once high elevation.

This is incontrovertible proof to anyone willing to think.

[Linked Image from waterknowledge.colostate.edu]

[Linked Image from grandcanyontrust.org]

Your post is confirmation of a worldwide flood. All those layers photographed were water born sediment at one time. Read up on the velocity of some of the currents produced by tides when there are no continents in the way.


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Originally Posted by antlers
Some people are seemingly concerned about discrepancies in the New Testament manuscripts. For example, the eyewitness details: one document says there was one angel at the tomb; another document says there were two angels at the tomb. Another document says such-and-such a person got to the tomb first, and another document implies that other people got to the tomb first.

These kind of minor differences are exactly what we should expect from eyewitness details. Any judge that has two or more eyewitnesses that come into his courtroom and give word-for-word testimony exactly about what happened…especially all of the minor details…is going to immediately assume that these eyewitnesses are in collusion. And they would be. Because eyewitnesses agree on the major event. Jesus was resurrected. They may disagree over the minor details.

When the Titanic sank in 1912, some of the eyewitnesses said the Titanic went down while; others eyewitnesses said it broke in half before it went down. Does one conclude the Titanic didn’t sink because the eyewitnesses disagree…? No. They all agree that the Titanic sank. They agree on the major event, even though they may disagree over the minor details.

The same thing is true about Jesus’ resurrection. The eyewitnesses may disagree about how many angels were there, or who got to the tomb first. But they all agree that Jesus was resurrected. And that’s the main point about Christianity. There was a resurrection and that’s what ALL of the eyewitnesses say.

None of the accounts of Titanic survivors are claimed to be the unerring directly inspired word of God. The perfect creator of the universe is held to a higher standard, shall we say an extraordinary standard due to the extraordinary nature of the claims.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by Muffin
While I have participated in some of these discussions peripherally, and occasionally when approached/addressed directly...
I do not understand why some would continue to directly engage when the other party has seen or heard HIS voice, and then overtly, directly, without equivocation, state that it was not there or was false, and HE does not exist...
They keep lobbing slow-pitched softballs. What are we supposed to do…? laugh


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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by Muffin
While I have participated in some of these discussions peripherally, and occasionally when approached/addressed directly...
I do not understand why some would continue to directly engage when the other party has seen or heard HIS voice, and then overtly, directly, without equivocation, state that it was not there or was false, and HE does not exist...
They keep lobbing slow-pitched softballs. What are we supposed to do…? laugh


Someone once said '...leave, and shake the dirt off your shoes...'

smile


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Originally Posted by Durango_Dave
I think the easiest way to dispel young earth creationism is rock layers. There are rock layers even on the highest mountains. How'd they get there? Dirt and mud flow off high areas and dump onto low-lying areas. So if the earth was only 6000 years old a great flood would not put layers on mountains.

Since there are layers on high mountains that proves mountains were at one time low-lying plains. There was once a sea where the Rocky Mountains are.

Every spot on Earth was once low lying. Every spot on Earth was once high elevation.

This is incontrovertible proof to anyone willing to think.

[Linked Image from waterknowledge.colostate.edu]

[Linked Image from grandcanyontrust.org]
Your last sentence illustrates the problem.

Some folks are not open to the idea of thinking. It's just too painful to consider "I may be wrong".

Last edited by Hastings; 04/12/24. Reason: spelling correction

Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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