Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Is faith without works dead…?

1 Corinthians 5......I have a question for the panel about it, started to bring it up, decided not to but since you did I will.

We see a guy who was having an affair with his step mother that got found out and Paul told the people to kick him out of their congregation in order to "turn him over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that his Spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord".

I have no idea how that works. I know very well that sin will kill you or lead to early physical death. Paul seemed to think that even though this guy was into big time sin he would still be saved in the end. Not only did his faith not have good works he was producing negative works....I suppose you could say his faith was "dead". Somehow it hints at the idea that a person who is saved can fall into deep depravity and still make it. Salvation seems to be very durable.


Furthermore, Paul went on to say to "expel the wicked from among you" including people who claimed to be "brothers" yet were "sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler." He told the people not to associate with these or even eat with them. Paul seemed to have zero interest in creating an "inclusive environment where everyone is welcome".

Its obvious that he did not want these "fake Christians" around to exert influence on the others....saying "don't you know a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough".

Did he think these also would be saved in the day of the Lord after being turned over to Satan?

In any event, there is zero doubt that the people in this "church" were held accountable for their "works" to some extent as crossing certain lines was not tolerated.

People who have the idea that Paul was all grace and James was all works have cherry picked a few verses and failed to read everything.

or even eat with them.

So, you are sure he was “born again”?

I've always felt that Salvation only comes from God's grace but God's grace is earned, not simply applied to everyone regardless. Otherwise there'd be no requirement to turn from sin either.

If he wasn't his spirit couldn't be save at the coming of Christ. If a believer refuses to live holy and godly life then he is presently useless to God, he is still a child of God but gone astray. He will be dealt with by the Lord but he will be saved as through fire as mentioned in 1 Cor 3. He will also not reign with Christ in His kingdom as Paul warns Corinthians in chapter 6.

In Luke 15 the prodigal is a child of the father, he is a son before he departs into the world and he is a son after he repents. This is not a parable of unbeliever becoming saved but a believer who goes into the world for a time and lives a life of sin but then repents and confessed his sin and is welcomed by the father.

Cash;
Good morning my friend, I hope that you and those who matter to you are well.

Thanks for your thoughts and wonderful photo which illustrates them perfectly.

While I've mentioned this previously, the closest I've felt to being in the very presence of God was on a mountain 3 hours hard hike from the nearest road.

That would be 3 hours for a younger me too mind you Cash, while I'm blessed to still trod the same paths 3 decades later, the time and effort seem to have increased.

Even more so than us being able to speak to God in said wild places, I believe God can speak to us more efficiently there.

I'd respectfully suggest those are two very different things.

While there is some utility to the internet, allowing a BC redneck to converse with interesting folks who live in far flung regions as an example, the negative aspect of it for me is the constant distractions which do not help me to concentrate, much less meditate.

All the best to you all this weekend Cash.

Dwayne

For decades, I struggled to know what it meant to believe in Jesus. I certainly believed the content of the Bible, but I knew that something was not right in me.

Then I read this passage that shook me to my core.

Matthew‬ ‭8‬:‭28‬-‭32‬ ‭ESV‬‬
And when he came to the other side, to the country of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men met him, coming out of the tombs, so fierce that no one could pass that way. And behold, they cried out, “What have you to do with us, O Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?” Now a herd of many pigs was feeding at some distance from them. And the demons begged him, saying, “If you cast us out, send us away into the herd of pigs.” And he said to them, “Go.” So they came out and went into the pigs, and behold, the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea and drowned in the waters.

These demons believed in Jesus. They recognized Him as the Son of God. They even knew of His future to torment them and recognized that time had not yet come.

But they are demons. They are hell-bound. What is wrong with their belief? Their belief is limited to their intellect, but does not extend to their actions.

Demons followed Lucifer into rebellion and were cast out of heaven.

Lucifer and the angels that followed him thought that they could make themselves like God, to be at His level, rather than recognizing their place subordinate to God.

Fallen Lucifer, taking the form of a serpent, successfully tempted Eve into sin, telling her that she could be like God and make her own decisions of what was right and wrong.

Lucifer’s pride caused him to seek to be equal to God. Eve’s pride caused her to seek the same. Each human instinctively seeks the same - I certainly did.

This is why we must surrender control of our lives to God.

Like the demons, I had intellectual belief.

Salvation requires more than head knowledge.

The longest journey is from the head to the heart.

I fought God until I was age 50. I tried to earn my salvation by my works. But I could not maintain obedience. I followed this flawed method of trying and failing until I gave up at age 47 and accepted that I would never be saved. I could not do what it took to be saved.

I was pretty stupid. I arrogantly and consciously thought I was smarter than God. I thought I could make up my own criteria to be saved. I had placed myself above His word.

And then at age 50, I read this passage which changed my life.

Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭2‬-‭3‬ ‭ESV‬‬
Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

That described me perfectly - I was foolishly trying to earn my salvation by my works.

At age 10, I had been moved by the spirit and was baptized. I begun by the spirit.

I then tried to complete my salvation by my works - for 40 years.

But in reality, I refused to give up self control. I did what I wanted - I was a slave to sin and could not break free. Yes, I was quite the hypocrite, playing the church game every Sunday - look good, smell good. I refused to admit that I could not save myself. I refused to admit that I needed Jesus’ sacrifice for my salvation. I was extremely proud - I didn’t need anyone else’s help; not even Jesus’s help.

Galatians 3:2-3 opened my eyes. Dumbfounded and finally humbled (somewhat 😃), I accepted Jesus as my Savior and in that moment I was saved.

After that, obedience and the desire to serve Him (works) came easily. Not to say I am perfect; I can still sin. But now, I go running to God for forgiveness when I sin, knowing that I will be graciously accepted. I no longer hide in shame when I sin. I am no longer separated from God.

His yoke truly is much easier and lighter than what I tried for 40 failed years.

The New Testament manuscripts make it pretty clear that salvation comes by God’s grace alone, through trust and confidence in Jesus alone. Until you get to the book of James. There’s a passage in James 2 that can lead to some confusion on this issue. Does this passage fly in the face of “salvation by God’s grace alone, through trust and confidence in Jesus alone”…? Or does it simply need further examination to be fleshed out…?