Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Semi autos for outdoors defense

Friends,

I was out doing some testing of loads and decided to run a couple of 6 shot drills with the 9mm 148 grain +P hardcast flatpoint, and the .45 ACP 250 grain hardcast flatpoint that I produce.

I was using a Glock 19 and a Glock 21 for the drills. BTW, the velocity for the loads are 1100 FPS for the 9mm and 925 FPS for the .45 ACP.

I was shooting at a steel plate that I had brought along. I managed to leave my stand at home but propped it up with the arm that connects to the stand. When hammering on it with the .45 it was falling over and the last round went over it as the plate fell.

The results

With the heavy .45 250 grain +Ps in the G21:

.43 was the first shot.
1.56 was the last shot.

So 1.13 seconds for 6 shots.

Bear in mind that I don't shoot competition anymore and I am not as fast as I used to be, and I didn't do any warm ups. But I figure that was good enough.

















With the little Glock 19 using the 148 grain +P flat points:


.55 reaction time to first shot.
1.57 was the 6th shot.
So 1.02 seconds for 6 shots.







I ran the G19 again, and finished at 1.58, so it was pretty obvious that that was where my "window" was for getting fast hits.




What was interesting (to me) was that there was basically a 1/10th of a second difference in time between the heavy 250 grain .45 +Ps and the 9mm 148 +Ps. The .45s definitely have more recoil, but for six shots, 1/10th of a second really is not something I am going to be concerned about. Bearing in mind that I have put a LOT of heavy loads through G21s and am used to shooting them, so that is a factor.

Either will work and I will continue to use both. It will just depend on the circumstances of where I am going and what my needs are at that time.

Ever tested a 40?

I am sure I have done 6 shot drills with 40s.

However, I did not do any that day, and I have not done any with my heavy poly SWC load that I make. That load does 1200 FPS out of a Glock 22, which is flat moving.




In this case I was out doing some chrono and accuracy testing and decided to run a couple quick drills with the 9mm and .45.


The punchline is that I can run these guns FAR faster than I can a DA revolver. I am a huge fan of the .44 magnum, especially in a Model 29, but I acknowledge that I cannot shoot it near as fast as I can a Glock 21. I am comfortable carrying either in the mountains around Grizzly bears, but I acknowledge that there are advantages to the semi auto platforms (for me). For others, they may be more comfortable with a double action revolver.

I have done a fair bit of practice with a .44 magnum and you can shoot it fast, but it takes an experienced shooter to shoot one quickly and accurately versus just making noise.

Great info Ted, thanks! Whether it translates directly to someone like me is debatable - you probably shoot fifty times as much as I do - but it gives us heathens an idea of what’s possible. I know I can shoot a good DA/SA auto (HK Expert/ CZ Custom CZ97) faster than any of my revolvers in DA. I am making an effort to train more these days.

Well, both those loads are real He-Man variety, for sure.

Would be interested to know the pressures.

MM

I bought both these loads and shoot them in a Glock 21.5 and a Glock 45, both MOS and set up with the same HS 507c red dot.

They are both easier to shoot than one would think. Lately I’ve been carrying the G45 when pig hunting simply because it’s less weight. I have equal faith in both rounds and don’t ever see myself going back to a revolver again. The ability to dump 13 or 17 rounds of a good hard cast bullet is pretty comforting.

That Gen 5 G21 is such a soft shooting gun it is truly amazing.

G21s have long been known to have soft recoil as compared to a 1911. But the Gen 5 takes it to another level. I was out shooting a while back and ran some generic ball ammo through the gun, confirming the RDO was on. The recoil was so soft I thought something was wrong, so I stepped over to the chronograph and ran a couple rounds through the it. Nope. They were typical factory 230 grain ball, which was advertised as 800 FPS, but was really doing about 750. It felt like it was going in the 600s.

Shooting the big 250 grain flatpoints through the G21 Gen 5 is eye opening in the way the gun absorbs the recoil. That gun is absolutely the softest shooting .45 I have ever shot, hands down.

My Glock Gen 3 SF 10mm is my most used outdoor packing pistol when in bear, hog, lion country. Fifteen 220 gr. hardcast at 1200 fps is no joke and I shoot it better than a magnum revolver.

Yes, they are very soft shooting for sure, don't own one but have shot them enough to fully agree.

Never shot a Gen 5 in 45 though. What do you think makes it noticeably better on felt recoil?

MM

The heavier slide, combined with heavier spring weights and dual recoil system no doubt contribute to the softer recoil. The standard G21 Gen 3 is a soft shooting gun already, but the gen 5 is even more so. As much as I am a long time 1911 guy, there is no comparison when it comes to recoil.

There is no substitute for real hands on experience

If those times are from a draw, you've got Miculek beat. That's smoking fast. What distance?

we don't, of course, have grizzly bears or Moose down here in FL, but I can say that a heavy loaded 10MM ( Using a Glock 40) will stop a large hog from messing with you.

I frequently carry my gen3 G21 or G22 and never feel lacking.

Reality is that plastic framed striker fired autos are more reliable in dirty conditions than revolvers.

Optics on a self defense pistol are stupid.

[/quote] Optics on a self defense pistol are stupid.[/quote]


Says someone who obviously has NO idea what they are talking about.

In a true self defense situation (arms reach) no sights, optics, etc. are needed. However, my woods carry gun needs optics AND it doubles as a self-defense firearm.

Shhh. The adults are talking. Go sit in the corner and listen a spell. You might learn something.

I am an unapologetic revolver fan for several reasons, but I can't deny that pistols---and Glocks in particular---are better in many situations.

Belly crawling and busting brush has a way of getting dirt and grime into the weirdest of places. The gaps between the frame and cylinder are especially vulnerable, sometimes even when in a holster. Alder twigs and leaves crammed in there can jam a cylinder from rotating: ask me how I know.