Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Colorado Collectors show at Greely, May 18-19

Just a note, Colorado passed a 3 day waiting period, Oct., 2023, for those that don't have a firearms license. Glad I just got my C&R. Luckily, I don't have much interest in the ones that aren't 50 years or older.

Might be worth getting one even if you don't plan on using it much.

Savage 99 serial for the first of 1974 (50 years) is B437451, and for May, 1974 it is B559166 and that is per Savage documentation.

Just a quick note, there is an amendment to the 3 day wait that anything that is C&R doesn't have to wait. It's one of the reasons the show is able to continue and they are being very specific this year about what comes in the door. I'll have a couple tables for Ault Ammo Depot this year, half will be for the shop and half for our personal stuff. Stop by and say hello. Ryan

And so how do the “rules” say you need to document? What happens if/when you dispose/sell?

Background check like normal and write Curio and relic across the top. I add the date too so there's no question.

For my money the $30 I spent for a C&R license was the best money I ever spent. For the cost of two six packs of good beer.....

Hell it's only $30? I need to get one. I haven't bought a gun that didn't fall under C&R for decades.

Am I wrong that c&rs didn't require a bgc between private parties recently as a couple years ago?

So now from a dealer I fill out the bgc form, they write c& r across the top, then do they submit it, or what?

A Curio and Relic FFL does not require a background check under federal law. I don't think a state can supersede the federal law and make a background check necessary.

C&R FFL's aren't perfect tho. First, a private citizen or dealer doesn't have to recognize and sell a C&R firearm to a C&R holder. I do see this with dealers - some either just won't deal differently with a C&R or feel they have to document absolute proof the firearm is a C&R firearm and don't know how to date it.

Yeah, that has tripped me up a couple times but generally it's worked pretty smoothly. Weirdest incident was last year when I bought a C&R-eligible handgun (Colt Army Special .32-20 1922-vintage) off the counter of a large Pennsylvania gun store (Grice's), when I stopped in on a whim. At first they wouldn't let me take it with me, insisting that they had to ship it to a Maryland FFL dealer where I could then go and pick it up (and endure the ridiculous red tape that is now a fact of life here). I stood my ground and cooled my heels while the lady disappeared to make some phone calls. A half hour later she came out and said she had misunderstood the provisos of a C&R license and said here you go you were right, have a nice day. Imagine a huge multi-million dollar gun dealership never having dealt with a C&R holder!

An unexpected upside to C&R's is that sometimes big outfits recognize it as being equal to an FFL-01 qualifying you for wholesale/dealer discounts on shooting supplies. I know Graf's does because a close friend jumped through their hoops with his C&R and now buys powder, .22 ammo, etc. from them at 2/3 the cost. The above mentioned Grice's put me on their wholesale program after I bought that revolver.

Of course the downside to getting a C&R is it puts you firmly in the sights of the ATF and local cops as being a "gunny" (you have to send a copy of your application to the local police chief who presumably has input with the ATF in granting your license), but what the heck we're all on their radar anyway to begin with. It's just a bit of added exposure.

So you guys with C&R’s do not have to keep a book?

You do have to keep a book.. but don't have to enter personal guns that you already own into it.

The only entries are C&R firearms that you buy/sell while the C&R is active. ATF can schedule an inspection no more than once a year to verify your book and the firearms listed in it. They can't do adhoc ("We're in your driveway and want to inspect your inventory") inspections, unless they have a warrant.

Yes, so if you have your C&R license at the Collectors Show, I take a scan of it so I can log it out in my book correctly and no background check is needed. Because of Colorado's more stringent law of the 3 day wait, if you are not an FFL or C&R holder, then you go through a background check and because the gun is older than 50 years old, I write C&R and the date the gun was made on the top of the background so any state audits see why the purchaser didn't wait 3 days. Stupid I know. I hate to say the I-25 corridor is full of liberals making all the rules lately.

Thank you - I'm a c&r holder, hoping to make it.

I've held a C&R for many years now and the benefits far outstrip the meager fee. I took advantage of dealer discounts with many suppliers; some up to 30%.

Question for you guys with a C&R for awhile, ever been audited? One of the reasons I never got one was I didn't want them to have a reason to come to my house. Just a thing I have with Feds. I was a Deputy for 15 years and only met one or two feds that were tolerable. Sorry for hijacking your thread Rick.

Okay so when you sell a gun that is in your book what documentation do you need from the buyer for a legal transaction?

I've never been audited or contacted by local law enforcement.

If I sell one I get a copy of the buyer's driver license and FFL. Can't sell out of state to someone with no license.

In state used to be just face-to-face but I think CA has shut that off. Wouldn't sell in CA anymore no-how.

Drivers License info and complete a background. Name, Address, license number and expiration date. Social Security is optional on the form. Standard 4473

This is from the ATF web site -

Type 03: Collector of Curios and Relics
Application fee: $30
Renewal (Every three years): $30

With this license, you can:

Acquire curios and relics in any state and transport or bring those curios and relics back to the collector’s state of residence.
Sell, trade, or transfer curios and relics to residents of the collector’s state, as well as a licensee who does not reside in the collector’s state of residence.
Note: This license allows you to acquire curio and relic firearms in interstate commerce; to transfer, sell, or deliver curio and relic firearms to another licensee who is a resident of any state; and to transfer curio and relic firearms to another licensee at a qualifying gun show or event in a state other than the collector’s state of residence. A collector’s license does not authorize a collector to engage in the business of dealing in firearms, even when those firearms are curios and relics.

Note that all the same regulations apply for selling as if you did not have the licence other than the addition of the need to log the sale in your book for a gun bought using the license. It is not a license to deal in curio & relic guns, so, short term buying and reselling is not allowed, nor is selling to unlicensed residents of another state.

I have also found by asking BATF agents when they sometime set up at gun shows that the interpretation of what is legal for a C&R licensee is different for different agents, so be careful, you might do something 100% legal and end up having to deal with an agent who may disagree.

A C&R holder does not have the buyer fill out a 4473, and cannot do a background check.

You just log their name/address/FFL #, or name/address/drivers license number.

If you have a C&R and live in a universal background check state, you will have to sell via a dealer FFL just like a private citizen would. That dealer would do a 4473/background check.

If you have a C&R and are selling to a non-FFL resident of another state, you have to ship it to an FFL in their state just like a private citizen would.

C&R FFLs help you buy guns.. but you get no power for selling guns that dealer does.