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Originally Posted by Savage_99
In Vermont, where I was Wednesday, there is about a foot of snow on the ground. By the middle of the rifle deer season snow is likely and its a benefit unless its also on the branches. I keep going back day after day to a hot spot one year that had snow on the branches. I should have hunted near the camp where it was just on the ground.

Here in CT snow is likely by the ML season.






So, the photo you posted is a rare event during your deer season? Like a hurricane here......we don't hunt during hurricanes.


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I'll jump in, since I've hunted that before as well.

That picture wouldn't be rare, but it ain't complete "normal" either.

You can EASILY get that weather during deer season, and do, probably 20-25% of the time. The trick is, once it gets there, it stays for a while.

That said, I'd still rather take a low-light shot in that, given all the available reflected light, than the same in creek bottoms or thickets in the Southeast, esp. in those little side hollows down here. HUGE difference in "lightness" available.




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Its not that rare at all. When snow falls it lands on branches. If the wind comes up later it might blow the snow off onto the ground. Looking out the window right now here in CT there is snow on the branches. Quite a bit in fact.

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My first scope that I got in 1953 was a 6X Lyman Wolvorine which I still have. It was too much magnification for a beginner deer hunting wise. For woodchucks it was good. I got my first deer with that scope.

I was in Sams in Brattleboro, VT the other day. They have no pistols for sale there any longer due to a break in a few years ago they decline to carry them.

The country store in Wardsboro stopped selling guns due to repeated break ins!

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Originally Posted by VAnimrod
I'll jump in, since I've hunted that before as well.

That picture wouldn't be rare, but it ain't complete "normal" either.

You can EASILY get that weather during deer season, and do, probably 20-25% of the time. The trick is, once it gets there, it stays for a while.

That said, I'd still rather take a low-light shot in that, given all the available reflected light, than the same in creek bottoms or thickets in the Southeast, esp. in those little side hollows down here. HUGE difference in "lightness" available.


Really, looks to me like AM comes earlier and PM comes later......lots of reflected light to use.

The thickets in Texas are dark.....I love this 6X for that reason.


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Most of my shooting is done at coyotes in wide open country. I think I made a mistake years ago when I put a variable power scope on my 250 Savage. Well, I learned at least not to change the power of it anywhere except at the range. Coyotes are relatively near the same size, and the size that they appear in my scope has become second nature in estimating their range. It seems that when I find coyotes, there are usually more than one. I've set over calls and seen up to 15 coming in, often from several directions. The first shot I take is often an easy one, followed by many more at running coyotes getting farther away. I think the big secret to being successful is using the same gun with the same loads with the same magnification, and taking hundreds of shots a year with it.


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I can find nothing to disagree with there dude! And you know I'm looking!!!!


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i have a 3x9 on my 30-06 and a 6x on my 243. haven't noticed a problem with either (and neither have elk/deer). i like em' all.

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Originally Posted by Savage_99
I prefer variable magnification riflescopes for big game, varmints and target shooting. In particular a 6X scope is too much magnification for running game, for hunting with snow on branches as then even the glare from a 4X is bothersome and a 6X is not optimum in dim light..

For range shooting a 6X is a disadvantage for fine shooting.

All in all almost everyone uses variable magnification riflescopes these days.

For big game hunting those with average eyesight should find that a 4X fixed would be a more flexible.

My last riflescope purchases were two Zeiss Conquests in 2.5-8.


I'm not sure what you are smoking, but this couldn't be further from the truth.
EVERY one of my hunting rifles wears a Leupy 6X42. Simple is good as is generous eye relief.
I don't shoot at running game either. I'm not into tracking gut shot deer.
But, carry on......

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I've got a couple of Leupy 6 x 42's, on my 22-250 and my 350 Mag. As you can imagine, these two rifles serve opposite ends of the spectrum, from coyotes to moose. I'm very happy with this scope model and will acquire more as I run across them.

What I'd really like to add though is that the folks like 99 are great guys in my books, as they keep the price of used 6 x 42's in the bargain category, particularly compared to a Leupy variable. Might as well have the best, and if it's a screamin deal to boot, why complain? cool


Model 600s in 308 Win and 6mm Rem, nuther one rebarreled to 22-250, matched pair of Model 660's in 6.5mm Rem Mag and 350 Rem Mag, NEED a 660 in 222.
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We got a WINNER!! Great post, Jacques!..... wink




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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I don't agree with Savage on the variable power thing,as I've shot too much stuff in the Northeast and elsewhere through fixed power scopes to really feel handicapped at all with a fixed power.But I DO agree that some skill on running or moving game is a good thing to have in the big woods of northern New England,or anywhere else for that matter.Such shots are just a reality back here,even if you're a stand hunter.I've seen too many running deer killed stone dead by skilled shots to assume it's not a legitimate field procedure.

Anything that helps you along those lines is a good thing to use.Personally, I would not feel at all handicapped hunting big game if I never saw another variable scope the rest of my life.In open country a 6X is great; I'd prefer a bit less power for all-round use but that's just me.

Last edited by BobinNH; 01/18/08.



The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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I avoid running shots and exceptionally long shots at large game as well. Unless they are wounded, and have dropped a few like that (I wasn't the original shooter that wounded them either). But with 'yotes, I don't mind belly shots, butt shots, or putting them on three legs, I'll catch up. I figure, if you aren't throwing lead, you ain't going to hit them either.


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When we hunt in the forest we have to set our variable on some power or other just like anyone else. Most of the time we leave it set on some magnification that we prefer. Even then its a compromise.

In VT where its always been bucks only for me and that buck had to have at least one 3" spike I selected a 4X scope. This was before variables were available or at least Lyman did not make them. These days I set my variable at about 4X but I will change it from time to time.

Many quick shots in the woods have both a doe and a buck present and I double check the head in the scope before I shoot.

A higher magnification would just take longer to find the running animal on the field of view. If the only rifle scope made was 6X I could use one of course. In fact 6X is a good magnification. So are others.

I may have about 10 or so fixed power hunting scopes. The biggest buck I shot in VT not long ago was shot with my 'new' 99f in .358 and it wears a 4X All American. Now to think about it there was a lot of snow everywhere then. Snow was all over the branches and ground maybe a foot and a half.

I was watching a wooded area and I heard a snort and saw movement going left to right. I caught the yellow tinge of antlers on one of them. I followed the movement in and out of visibility thru the trees and when the fast moving buck showed his chest I hammered him there. The distance was about 60 yds. The 4X scope was just right for that shot. We have to set them on something. By the way there was zero time to use binoculars, LOL.

That buck ran about 40 yds with a broadside lung shot. The strange thing was that when I got to the spot where the shot was made and there was some blood sprayed on the snow that I wondered which exact direction the buck had ran. I could not see far at all in that tangle. However I could smell the buck. The doe had run off and he was already dead when I got there. I don't wait for that.

A 4X is good for woods hunting most of the time but not flexible thats all. 6X is good for the open or woodchucks. Make mine a modern variable.


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I have some 6X42's that are 20+ years old. I started long before the Campfire promoted with posts. I have shot over 125 hogs & 6 black bears with a 6X on my 35 Whelen. I use on a number of rifle & for the money perhaps the best scope available in Leupolds line. I also use variables for longer shots at big game & predators. I have purchased a number of 3-9 Zeiss Conquest & fell they are outstanding scopes. Like most applications many different approaches. This is why I have over 15 big game rifles & many scopes(some as spares).


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I too bought my first Leupold 6x42 before I ever heard of 24 Hour Campfire. Every hunting rifle I own, save one, has either a fixed Leupold 4x33 or a 6x42. The one with the variable has a Leupy VX-7 I bought from Rick. It has stellar glass, that's why I bought it. If Leupold would make Fixed 3x, 4x, or 6x scopes with THAT kind of glass, with the amazing image it delivers, I'd have no hunting rifles with variables on them. Hey Leupold, are ya listening??? grin
Jacques makes good sense about using a fixed power for a reference in animal size.
I can't think of any good reason NOT to have fixed power scopes on every rifle. But, for some target rifles, and for groundhog rifles, I have some variables, but would prefer fixed power scopes on them too.
Marketeers have succeeded is selling variables for everything, and some hunters have swallowed hook, line, and sinker. I call NONSENSE!! Advantage=Fixed Power.
If you took a survey, I would bet that out of all hunters with variable scopes mounted on their rifles, 95% of them would tell you they set and forget the power setting while hunting. When a Deer, for example, is spotted, the hunter reacts and shoots at the Deer with the power setting it was at before spotting the Deer. The other 5% may have time to adjust the power setting. I look at the guys hunting out west as the 5% group, where game animals are spotted at greater distances than they are back here.

Last edited by DMB; 01/18/08.

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Originally Posted by VAnimrod
Originally Posted by Savage_99
Here in New England snow is part of the scene. With it on the branches 2X is about right. I shoot at running game. I practice it in running deer matches and I am skilled at it. It increases my chances of getting something.

I re-identify the quarry in my rifle scope. Why be limited and take a chance?

Higher magnification improves low light performance. Just because someone shot a deer with a 6X in low light does not, by itself, mean much. I also have shot a number of deer with a fixed 6X and it got them all. Today I prefer the advantage a variable gives me.

To me the whole fixed power riflescope thing is just a local fetish here that seemed to be dying out and for good reason.

To each his own.


I know a little about New England hunting. It's different, but not nearly as impossible as some make it out.

In fact, I'd rather take a low-light shot in snowy New England, with all that ambient light reflecting off the snow for the scope to use, than in tight creekbottoms or laurel thickets in the Southeast, with little to no ambient light available in those last few minutes of the day.

Being able to hit running deer, is a prerequisite in the Southeast.... bt/dt.... 6x42 ain't hamstrung me yet, but a variable cranked the wrong way has.

The reason that the fixed 6 seems to have a greater following around here, is that folks 'round here got exposed to the idea, tried it, and remained hip to the idea, when no flies in the plan were found.

That the unwashed masses ain't tried it and thus don't do it, don't mean much. Trashco, Simmons, and Bushnell still sell a ton of bubble-packed scopes every year; just 'cause they do and some DSMFer uses it, don't make it less of a POS.



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For quick shots in the thick woods, a 30-30 with open sights works as well as anything IMO.


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Originally Posted by JacquesLaRami
For quick shots in the thick woods, a 30-30 with open sights works as well as anything IMO.


Without a doubt!!!
Make mine a double 7x57 though... grin


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"I can't think of any good reason NOT to have fixed power scopes on every rifle. But, for some target rifles, and for groundhog rifles, I have some variables, but would prefer fixed power scopes on them too." DMB

I actually replaced the 6-18 Vari-X 2 on the Swift with a straight 12x M8. I can see cleare and better with the fixed power scope. A 10x M8 is going on the big Bob chuck rifle for the same reason, and I have another 12x, just in case. laugh



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