Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles NOT an AR? But a AK 47?

Great they may be but I'll just have to stay unenlightened for that kind of coin....

Gene �

The first AK�s were adopted in 1947 as the standard infantry weapon of the Soviet Union; however they were mostly a failure. The SKS stayed in frontline service until they abandoned the stamped receiver for the milled version in 1955, and the AK began replacing the SKS as a frontline weapon around 1956.

The stamped version is an improvement, once they worked out the issues involved with stamping. The AKM�s were introduced in 1959 with changes obviously to the receiver but at that time the slanted muzzle nut was added and the rear sight was graduated to 1000 meters instead of the 800 meter sight of the AK47 (or was it the other way around�feeble mind). The stamped AK�s are typically a touch less accurate than the milled receiver rifles. However, the later stamped AK74�s in 5.45x39 are more accurate than either version of the 7.62x39 rifles.

Yeah, me too. I�ve shot a few over the hears and they�re easy to fall in love with�until you see the price tag. They�ve never been cheap, but these days they�re really pricey.

From what I've heard, they are fine rifles. But my question is do you really want to put $1500 in a plain-jane rifle that shoots a round that rivals the 30-30?

That's a lot of bucks for not a lot of bang. Just my opinion, not trying to divert any one who wants to purchase a Valmet.

Hog
I've got a milled Poly tech "NM" stamped AK from years back... prior to the ban. Its far from accurate, but is reliable fwiw, it does keep most rounds in a 12 inch target at 200 yards though, not impressive for a "match" gun.

Ammo costs can be an issue, I agree. But if I were to base my life on that, I'd be shooting a 22...

Availbility of parts..... there will always be more AR parts around, see that our service uses them also... taht should be a MAJOR clue in case folks are a bit dim...

Penetration... a wall won't stop an AR either, I once surprised myself, I needed to foul a barrel before I shot a 600 yard string, so I turned around and we had an old side by side fridge/freezer at 300 yards in the dump.... I lit off 5 rounds of 69s at 300 yards, and later went to look, I found all 5 penetrated side to side... IE first wall, fridge compartment, divider, freezer compartment, other wall and sailed on.... I don't see a wall stopping the AR ammo. In fact in a house I'd rather have an explosive like TAP... shooting through walls in a house can be dangerous to others if no one has thought about that.... and if you have to penetrate the AR has plenty of rounds for it....

Cost wise, the worst AR will outshoot the best AK, so you could possibly get 2 AKs for the cost of an AR. And when we ban cheap imported ammo, SKS stuff wont' be so cheap.... while we'll still be building lots of 223 for us...

I'd rather buy an SKS personally, they have been much more accurate to me. Plus I've ordered more than a few Aks for folks, where they shoot a bit and parts break or fall out. Last time I saw non working ARs was when Armalite was having issues about circa 93 or so.

I'd take a 500 buck AR over a 350 buck AK any day. If I have to proceed back up in power, I'll grab our M14s any day.

I did not realize we got whooped in VN, in fact if you listen to the commanders of VN, had we held out 6 months longer instead of caving to liberal bastards, they'd have surrendered...

And as to AK use by our forces, I'd have assumed you'd know we have lots of SF type forces in country, that they will often use/carry the enemy weapon for report and ammo availability issues... I know we haven't swapped guns here at home yet.

Regards, Jeff

I have sold off all but one AK rifle now. The one I kept was an older Bulgarian SA93, with the milled receiver. This AK will shoot two inch groups all day long with Wolf 124 grain ammo. I keep thinking I will upgrade the furniture, but since I hardly ever take it out of the safe anymore, I will probably just leave it as it is.
I traded a Baikul 9X18 Makarove pistol for this AK. I paid $70 NIB for the little commie pistol, so not including ammo and magazines, I have just $70 tied up in this rifle.

Dang Hogbuster, I said when I got out of the marines in 1970 That I was never going to own an AR or an AK I resisted the AR till a couple years ago but still was adamant about the AK because of the ones I saw/captured and destroyed in SE Asia. After reading the thread you started I find myself considering an AK and a couple cases of ammo for a just in case SHTF seanario but I know myself I am not about to let a firearm and a couple cases of ammo sit around now I have to 1 find a AK I seen a tanker on gunbroker already I am considering putting a bid on.
2. Find a couple cases of mil surp ammo in the can at an afdfordable price. And 3. convince my wife that this is a gun I have always wanted. After thirty years and all the negative stuff I have said over the years about ANY COMMUNIST MADE CRAP never comeing into my house. This is going to get interesting. I had a long talk with my son thre years ago when he bought an SKS about what a hunk of crap any soviet made firearms were. ect ect. Well thanks now I got to eat my words.

Another reason I just thought of to get an AK. Sarah Brady and the Anti American Anti gun coalition says we shouldn't/ can't and they want to make it so we can't. Funny thing about me when any one trys stopping me from doing any thing, I just have to do it any way.

I've owned a few. Most are junk, a few are ok. The two that I really liked were both milled receiver guns. One was an Arsenal brand USA built gun that I paid WAY TO MUCH MONEY FOR. Arsenal dropped of their milled guns and the price skyrocketed, I made out pretty good when I sold it.

The other ( I still own) is a milled Polytech MAK90. I bought this one for a song and went to work hacking and cutting on it to make it the rifle you see in the picture. The gun has never jammed and I can hit a pie plate at 100yds pretty consistanly. I know that doesn't compare to a good AR but that's good for an AK. I think they're a lot of fun to play with.

Terry

Here's mine with all the extra's. I really like the A.C.E. stock (had to make the mounting bracket by hand) and the Galil style handle fits American hands much better. The hand guard and flash hider are just "BLING" I think that's the word for it.

AK's can go bad too


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b9c_1201440552

I have owned both and fired both extensively. Here is Down-lo:

The AK is dead-stock reliable, EVERYTIME. it is legendary for a reason. The mags are so sturdy that I have a steel one I use as a bottle opener, and and I als use it as a primary mag when I head to the range. No AR of any design will ever equaly it's hell-for-stout design. It was also built with MUCH greater tolerances than the AR. The BEST you can ever expect from and AK is 1.5" and that is exceptional.

I right now have a converted Saiga sporter in 223/5.56, and I get 5 into 2.5" @ 100yds, using a williams pep sight mounted in the factory rear sight spot. With optics, I might get better.

AR's are really reat in accuracy and there are so many toys and accessories for them that you will never own enough guns to hang all the stuff on them that is available, and they will shoot rings around an AK any day of the week, with no effort involved, and the mag change is much quicker. Optics for the AK are very expensive when compared to the AR, and frequently you must be careful because I think that much dedicated AK optics are over-priced

The AK's biggest limitation is that much ot it's design, as to sights and ergonomics, were based on pre-ww2 technology, and so you should bear that in mind when looking one over. If you decide to seriosuly look at one, here is what to own and what not to own:

Arsenal and Rapid Fire and Krebs are the best of the best and priced accordingly - $600 - 1000+

The saiga sporters can be converted for about $150 more than the cost of the gun and you will have a real RUSSIAN made gun, but you must do some thing to keep it legal. none tough, but you just need to be aware when you do it. $400 approx

The galil sporters are available at AIM surplus right now for $700 shipped, and that is a great buy.

the STG2000's have a checkcered history. the first ones were crap, but the latest ones seem to be OK. David Fortier and Kokalis liked them, and that is saying something.

The Chinese norinco Milled receiver guns are great but expensive. the stamped guns function great but expect that 4-6" accuracy AK's are known for.

The WASR/Romanian/anything under $400, well, you get what you pay for. they will likely function well, but don't expect them to be accurate, anymore than an M1carbine.

NEVER buy ANY ak with the underfold stock or that Hungarian AMD little wire side-fold. That won't support the gun well and it is little better than a bullet hose


ALOT of people do not understand the basic philosophy of the AK. it was built to be super-rugged and super-simplem and it is. Soviet tactics of the time taught that the SQUAD (unlike the US teaching that the individual) shoots towards the target. Also, thier studies of combat echoed the German and US studies of the 40's & 50's that most combat takes place at less than 200yds, and that holds true thru today. thus, the AK was never at all built to be a snipig or super-accurate tool. it was actually originally called a submachinegun in Soviet terminology and it is the PERFECT example of that, with natural pointing and handling that rivals the AR, and more compact than most AR's

AK's are fun and I like mine alot, but I see it for what it is. If you get and think it is a comparison to an AR, then you are not being fair to the gun or your wallet. Take a look at what you want the gun for, then decide

iambrb,

Very informative post. Thank you.

KS

just the oposite the first AK'S were milled,MK decided they didn't flex enough ,which made then shake loose .

Then MK designed the front and rear trunion blocks and a stamped reciever,which allowed the frames to move!

Bob

Something that's had me thinking about an AK lately, is that you can get 1000 rds of 7.62x39 for about 200 bucks. I love reloading as much as the next guy, but if you just want to blast away, that's a pretty hard deal to beat. 500 bucks +/- a couple and you've got yourself a fun time.

Bob

Check your history, the original design was stamped. You've never seen an early stamped AK because there were so few made, because like I said, they didn't work. Then they went to the machined receiver, which is the early AK's that everyone is familiar with.

It's understandable that you're not informed on this, because the only people who know the original AK's were stamped are full fledged gun-geeks who read gun books 24/7...yeah, I have no life. Check out Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47
Look under the section of "Receiver development history"

Iambrb

Excellent assessment. And your Saiga is giving you excellent accuracy. With 2.5 MOA that rifle will do anything you can ask of it in the field. I didn�t realize the Saiga�s were that accurate, I might have to give real consideration to one.

The better AK�s are very capable rifles and even though the AK philosophy is exactly as you say, don�t forget that a decent rifleman turns a quality AK into a formidable combat weapon. You wouldn�t want Russian Spetznaz shooting at you at 600 yards with their AK-74�s because if you kept your head up for long, you would quickly be removed from the gene pool.

With a Chinese (which many don�t realize, are very good quality AK�s � they�re just ugly), I have made 500 yard hits on IPSC targets. No, I didn�t hit them every time I pulled the trigger, but again, if you kept your head up long, you�d regret it.

The problem with American shooters is they read too many gun magazines. Americans think they actually NEED 1 MOA accuracy in their rifles. Few shooters have shot past 300 yards with anything, let alone something like an AK. When you start shooting at distance, you quickly see it�s not all that hard to hit with most anything up to 500 yards. Past that, things begin to get dicey.

If you put an AK in the hands of a relatively unskilled shooter, then it�s really a 100 yard weapon. But if you put it in the hands of an experience rifleman with actual field experience, it performs well beyond what it was intended to be. I think our troops have learned that for street fighting, the AK is an almost ideal weapon. Light,compact, reliable, easy to use and the 7.62 cartridge

Still, I think your assessment is spot on.

I don't know it all by far, but I"m not aware of any AK platform that is head shot accurate at 600 yards.... body shot yes, most SKS are capable of that also, but certainly not head shot accurate??

Hasn't HK built a new rifle that looks like an M4 carbine but has an operating system very similar to the AK-47? That would seem to be the best of both worlds and might offer AR 15 accuracy with AK reliability.

You can have lose tolerances an AK "reliability"
or you can have tight tolerances and accuracy.

It's more than tight tolerances. It is primarily about blowing all that hot sooty gas right back into the chamber in the normal AR setup. AK avoids that. Tolerances matter, but the AR is seemingly setup to have a mess.