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Joined: Nov 2004
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I want to try some reduced recoil loads in a .280 but am not sure where to start. I am thinking that 120 gr. bullet at about 2500 fps. I don't think it would kick too hard, but I want to build safe loads. I checked Hodgdon's website and they have a youth load for 7x57 but not .280. Has anyone made reduced recoil loads for the .280 or knows how to calculate a load based on another load like the 7x57 or 30-06?
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I have done it a couple of ways. Start with the minimum loads using either 4895 powder and go down. If you get much below that, switch to magnum primers. Any other powder faster than 4350 works fine. I've also used IMR 3031.
If the load you select clocks 3000 fps. w/ 4895, them 2/3's that would be close to 2000 fps. 2500 fps. would be about half way, roughly.
I've had excellent accuracy with some of these. Well under MOA. Much less recoil. E
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it's a fairly large case for mid-range reduced loads. The Speer manual has some reduced loads starting with their 130gr bullets. 20.0 grs of SR4759 yields 1680fps with a max load at 24grs to get 2024fps. A starting charge of 47.0gr of H380 shows a velocity of 2714fps using 120's. That is about equal to most maximum loads with the .257 Roberts using 120gr bullets.
This is God's universe, and he has a plan. You might think that you have aa better plan, but you don't have a universe.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Less powder, less recoil...
look at 30 grains of SR 4759 or IMR 4227 as max, and start at 25 grains to see if that gives you what you want...
Remington uses IMR 4198 in their managed recoil stuff, look at 30 going to 35 grains as max.. RL 7 can be substituted for that also...
Speers manuals are never showing the max pressure on their reduced load stuff.. they are just targeting 1800 to 2000 fps in most cases, that is all...
I hunt at times with 24 grains of blue dot in a 7 x 57 with 115 and 120 grain bullets.. so that will be safe in a 280 any day...
Last edited by Seafire; 02/05/08.
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Most of your recoil comes from the bullet weight.
When my 280 was a light weight rifle, (before the new barrel, and stock) I could really tell the difference in the 150 grain factory loads and the 165 grain factory loads, a difference of only 15 grains.
You can reduce recoil by using the lighter bullets, and low end (minimum) loads.
Pick a powder that uses the lightest charge for that cartridge. (280 in your case) Then you will be using less powder too, which will make for a further reduction in recoil.
Don't use a powder or load that you don't have data for, and don't use less powder than the minumum load. That should be a pretty safe practice.
As for performance, your velocity will be less, but your bullet will be lighter too, so it will potentially expand less, and penetrate more, than if that light bullet was at max 280 velocity.
From the Nosler Manual, the smallest powder charges for the 120 grain bullet, are 43.5 gr. of H4895, (3008 fps) and 44 grains of IMR 4064, (2773 fps) both at 67% loading density.
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Like others have said...lighter bullets and less powder equals less recoil. You haven't said what the application and need is...so I'm speculating. A full power .280 with a 150 moving at max velocity isn't a hard kicker by most standards, but is capable of doing almost anything but dangerous game. A 120, like a TSX running a mild 2750, would still be capable of doing a lot of work, and in a full sized rifle, or even a Mtn Rifle, would be very mild indeed as thats getting down to 257Bob land. How mild do you want it? What is the reason for reducing recoil in this .280 instead of stepping down to a 257Bob or 243?
Last edited by .280Rem; 02/06/08.
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He posted about a Handirifle in 280 for his daughter in another thread. 10 or 12 years.
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Campfire Ranger
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Looks like you could do the Blue Dot thing, and realize your velocity goal with VERY modest recoil.
Cartridge : .280 Rem.
Bullet : .284, 120, Nosler BalTip 28120
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch or 84.58 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch or 660.4 mm
Powder : Alliant BLUE DOT
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 3.846% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-38.5 35 16.00 1903 965 17501 3384 100.0 1.951
-34.6 37 17.00 1976 1040 19383 3557 100.0 1.858
-30.8 40 18.00 2046 1115 21353 3728 100.0 1.777
-26.9 42 19.00 2113 1190 23411 3898 100.0 1.705
-23.1 44 20.00 2179 1265 25559 4068 100.0 1.640
-19.2 46 21.00 2242 1339 27797 4235 100.0 1.582
-15.4 48 22.00 2303 1413 30128 4401 100.0 1.529
-11.5 50 23.00 2363 1488 32553 4566 100.0 1.480
-07.7 53 24.00 2421 1562 35074 4729 100.0 1.435
-03.8 55 25.00 2478 1636 37691 4891 100.0 1.393
+00.0 57 26.00 2533 1710 40407 5051 100.0 1.347
+03.8 59 27.00 2588 1784 43225 5209 100.0 1.306
+07.7 61 28.00 2641 1858 46147 5366 100.0 1.268
+11.5 64 29.00 2693 1933 49175 5521 100.0 1.232
+15.4 66 30.00 2745 2007 52313 5675 100.0 1.199 ! Near Maximum !
+19.2 68 31.00 2795 2082 55562 5826 100.0 1.167 ! Near Maximum !
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Looks like you could do the Blue Dot thing, and realize your velocity goal with VERY modest recoil.
Cartridge : .280 Rem.
Bullet : .284, 120, Nosler BalTip 28120
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch or 84.58 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch or 660.4 mm
Powder : Alliant BLUE DOT
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 3.846% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-38.5 35 16.00 1903 965 17501 3384 100.0 1.951
-34.6 37 17.00 1976 1040 19383 3557 100.0 1.858
-30.8 40 18.00 2046 1115 21353 3728 100.0 1.777
-26.9 42 19.00 2113 1190 23411 3898 100.0 1.705
-23.1 44 20.00 2179 1265 25559 4068 100.0 1.640
-19.2 46 21.00 2242 1339 27797 4235 100.0 1.582
-15.4 48 22.00 2303 1413 30128 4401 100.0 1.529
-11.5 50 23.00 2363 1488 32553 4566 100.0 1.480
-07.7 53 24.00 2421 1562 35074 4729 100.0 1.435
-03.8 55 25.00 2478 1636 37691 4891 100.0 1.393
+00.0 57 26.00 2533 1710 40407 5051 100.0 1.347
+03.8 59 27.00 2588 1784 43225 5209 100.0 1.306
+07.7 61 28.00 2641 1858 46147 5366 100.0 1.268
+11.5 64 29.00 2693 1933 49175 5521 100.0 1.232
+15.4 66 30.00 2745 2007 52313 5675 100.0 1.199 ! Near Maximum !
+19.2 68 31.00 2795 2082 55562 5826 100.0 1.167 ! Near Maximum !
My experience with Blue Dot in an 06 sized case, has shown that you should not try to go over 50% of what the maximum the case will hold to overflowing.. or translated easier.. never go over 26 grains of Blue Dot in an 06 sized case, with ANY bullet weight.. this has held true for the 25/06, the 270, the 280, the 06 of course and the 338/06... I don't have any experience with a 35 Whelen, but I am sure the same would hold true... I am not sure on Montana Marine's source for the above data, but I am just reflectiing my own personal experiences working with Blue Dot in a lot of different rifle cases...amd calibers..
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Sep 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I ran that calc through Quickload.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Shane,
thanks for mentioning that. I do not have access to quick load...or I should say I don't use it..
I have worked all of this stuff by my own experiences and a chronograph...
Interesting that they run the loads higher than I do.. I found not much increase in velocity at a certain point and pressure starting to climb, if nothing based on anything else but increase in muzzle blast...
Just interesting to compare actual results with a computer model.. shows the concept of working up...
if you look at it, they are suggesting a 20 % increase of powder at max than I would recommend...
comparing two cartridges with the same volume but different shapes, the 280 and the 284.. I have noted that Blue Dot will prefer the shorter fatter case over the longer thinner one, in approaching what is max for that case...
It is just interesting as compared to more slower burning powders burn characteristics..
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,083
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I've done some low impulse loads with Unique, but haven't worked with Blue dot.
A couple loads I've worked up:
308 Win
WW brass
168 Nosler
17.0gr Unique (64% density, 44K Pressure)
1900 fps.
30-06
Rem brass
168 Nosler
20.0gr Unique (59% density, 42K Pressure)
2000 fps
Have used these loads out to around 400 yards on clay bird targets. Fun. Lets you play with trajectory/wind on reduced distances with nearly zero recoil.
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Campfire Ranger
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I've used plenty of 30-06 150grain bullet over 13 grains of RED DOT with no problems. About 1400fps.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Call Hodgdon and talk to a ballistics expert. They are very helpful. IMR4895 & H4895 can be loaded down to a certain percent below listed starting loads safely. Hodgdon can tell you what bullets and how low you can load down to.
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