Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Nightforce vs. Swarovski, S&B, Zeiss?

ad 1: wrong - The full L. line is available here- every single model as per US catalogue.

ad 2: WRONG - there is no special "high tariff on quality scopes".
BTW 1. L. scopes do not rate as "high quality" or "high performance" here.
BTW 2. New DIN/ISO will contain specs for "General purpose" optics and "High Performance" optics.

ad 3: Wrong - No market is so open to the world's market than the Euro market.
For comparison the tariffs on Euro optics sent to the US market are at least >triple< compared to Euro tariffs on importing foreign optics into the Euro market.
This does not look like "we Euros don't want competition".

4. Yes, L. sells some but not many to hunters, more to paper punchers. In fact the brand was dropped from mail order catalogues like Frankonia.

Thanks for the "correct" information. I'm sure some(one) will say you are wrong. What do you know? You only live in Germany & are a hunting/shooting/optics writer with a great depth of knowledge.

You know it is so telling that there is never any support for "E" and he is never influenced by anyone or anything including facts. He does make for comedic reading though.

Better perormance means what ? Give me some specifics. BTW, better price or even comparable ? E

Nice try, RD. Now go back and reread what I said. Leupold's export model. It's called the euro last I heard. VXI coatings, metric adjustments, 30mm tube, etc. Special model aimed at the low end of the euro market.
Really ? I note that S&B's don't cost much more than Leupolds over there. Here, they are much higher. How come Zeiss and Swaro make some of their scopes here instead of there ? Yes, I know about the labor costs, but how come the euro import fees on optics with multiple coatintgs ? That went away ? Must have missed it. But I do see in "ad 3" something about tariffs. Hmmm.
I'm not surprised they aren't "rated" as high quality or high performance. Reminds me of the DEVA impact tests from long ago. You know, the ones that gave the "superior/stronger" euro scopes 5 impacts and the US made scopes 10 and had the gall to call that fair.
Really. If Leupolds have such low quality, then why are the target shooters using them ? Are you going to tell me that's all they can afford, targeting shooting, instead of hunting ? Here, target shooters use the best out there for their sports. Leupold provides the majority of the scopes used by the super picky benchrest crowd here, for instance. I have seen a few Nikons as well. But no euros. E

More people prattlin' on about schit they don't have, haven't used, and most haven't even seen in person....

Yep, must be the "optics" forum.....

VA, I've got some shooting buddies that compete on the rimfire benchrest circuit. They've let me use their stuff. We talk scopes a good bit.
I've used lots of Leupolds in lots of places and under lots of conditions. I do take exception when some guy tells me my Leupolds don't work during twilight when I've used them many times on dark nights. E

Nobody cares because nobody believes you . . . when in doubt lie.

BTW -Leupold's work at night just not as well as others - that's the part you fail to grasp!!!

Helluva difference between a scope on a rimfire benchrest set-up, and a hunting rig.

I personally haven't hunted with a Nightforce, a S&B, or a Swaro, and with only one Zeiss. A few Leupolds.

Have peeked through a good number of all the above though.... and talked to folks who have used them all..... but that is MUCH different from using them.

Thus, I don't know enough on this subject to venture a comment.

At least I understand that if you compare two scopes at twilight, but one is set on 5X and the other set at better than 6X, the one with the higher magnification will show you more. Not because it's better, but because the guy comparing them doesn't understand how they work. E

At least most of us know that Leupolds Diamond coat is not made of real diamonds.

You know what I hate to say this but you really aren't that bright, put magnifcation equal and a Swaro is better than Leupold. Honestly it's like I'm dealing with a 5th grader - really is you reading comprehension that bad??

You know that(diamond incident)absolutely crushes any credibility that the old guy has or has ever had. How can anyone who has even the most rudimentary of cognitive skills even contemplate that that would be possible??

Does anyone know if any Euro Magazines have compared/rated the Swaro Z6's against Zeiss, S&B, Kahles, & meopta.

One point I have noticed about the Swaro's is that their ranging
reticle can also be had with a red dot, Zeiss' Z-plex does not,
and S&B does have one with their mil-dot systems, but not a rangeing reticle like Swaro.

Zeiss and Swaro each have a thicker ranging reticle. Zeiss calls their shorter distance ranging reticle the Z 600. I would think they would be good in low light?

Also, Swaro's electronics in their scopes are guarenteed for 2 years whereas Zeiss's has a five year guarentee on their electronics in their scopes. I did not call S&B, so I do not know their guarentee.

E... If comparing scopes the way you do, I would preach that Tasco was the best there was. When you only compare Leupold to Leupold it's pretty easy to come to the conclusion that Leupold is the best. As I said above, if I only compared Tasco to Tasco, obviously Tasco would be the best.

On a different note, 2 friends and myself have spent exactly 51,421.17 over the past 2 years and have spent roughly 2500 hours between the 3 of us in the past 21 months comparing the purchases we made. I have no affiliation with any scope company, the only real perk we get is price breaks from large purchases. There are still a couple lines of scopes that we haven't spent much time with but should in the next 6 months. WE REALLY DO COMPARE SCOPES, and have no bias to any company. I don't believe anything I read and like to see it myself. I took 7 guns with 7 different scopes to Northern Wisconsin this past year and hunted with a different gun almost every day just to actually use them in the field. All the scopes were chart tested and looked through with 3 sets of (our eyes)prior to hunting. All scopes were shot at low light and All scopes were focused to (my eyes)before leaving. All the scopes had 50+ rounds shot under them before they left, all scopes had between 20-30 rounds shot under them as I spent over 6 hours at the range upon ariving to refocus and rezero (if needed). Most of the scopes are resold to recoup some of our costs and the scopes we feel are favorable or are alot of bang for your buck are still around for comparison.

We usually test scopes at given price points and keep only what can be used as benchmark for the next line of scopes in that price range. As of right now we have tested 17 Leupolds and have resold all but (1) they simply don't make the grade when you compare them against almost everything that's out there in their price point. The only Leupold we still have and I actually spent 2 days hunting with is the 2.5-10X45 VX-7. At roughly 1500.00 it's good but, there are a few others that are as good or better in the 800.00-1000.00 range. Were gonna keep the VX-7 just for comparitive purposes.

The whole premise of this post is to explain that I don't care who advertises in Buckmasters, Rifle, American Hunter etc....
All the scopes we have tested are actually tested with OUR EYES. I don't care which writer raves about this or that scope, were gonna look at it with (OUR EYES)!!!

Tester (1) 20-20 vision with out contacts.
Tester (2) contacts no idea what his vision is with or without.
Tester (3) glasses and older gentlemen with middle of the road eyesight.




All scopes were hunting scopes, no tactical, no target.

Magnification ranges that were hunted with this past season 1.5-4 to 4-16 powers.

BD,
Thats what typically happens when someone actually spends the time to LOOK.Leupold is always last in line optically.Its like i've been saying,inferior glass and coatings.Some people have a hard time with that.And its been that way for a very long time.
dave

Eldorado,
I believe S&B will go 20 years.Period.
In a pinch they will send you a replacment scope if yours craps to use in an emergency.
dave

E E E,
You seem to keep forgetting that I am a benchrest shooter.
The new lupie BR scope has been a disaster for Leupolds reputation.Its pretty hard to find an unaltered lupie at events like the supershoot.Unless they have there reticles frozen or have the excellant Cecil Tucker conversion.Stock lupies are not competitive.The new March scope built in japan is the ticket
these days.
There is no way I would even think of gunning for a good showing at the supershoot with a stock lupie.
dave

Dave7mm what do you think of the March scopes, I cannot believe how reasonable they are for the production restrictions they have. Roughly 2 scopes per day all hand assembled in the 2000.00-2500.00 range.

Rob

Below is a link where target scopes are rated.Note that the March and Nightforce receive top marks.

http://www.6mmbr.com/optics.html