Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Mule Deer - What powders? limited to 3

Mule Deer:

I wasn't going to say it, but you did - RL22 is great in my RUMs, but it is temp sensitive. I like Hodgdon powders, eps Varget and 4831 for that reason. Sometimes I think I sound like a broken record talking about temp sensitivity, but it is important.

I have never seen an temperature insensitve ball powder, but I have not tried Ramshot.

257Bob
For me, H4198, H4895, and H4350. If I cant do it with that, I dont need to do it......maybe throw in H4831.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />..
Charlie

reloader 25, vit 165, retumbo

LRNut--

Ramshot has always claimed temp-insensitivity with their line of Ball powders, but I had to test it for myself. Worked up some loads at 70-80 degrees in the summer, then shot them at around zero in the winter. Unlike some tests which just chill the ammo, this is more realistic. The trick is keeping the chronograph battery warm, which I did with a hand warmer.

This test also tried some other powders. The Hodgdon Extremes basically chronographed within 10 fps of summer numbers, and most of the Ramshots stuff came just about as close. In fact, one strong with TAC had EXACTLY the same speed as it did in summer.

As usual, the losers in the contest were the IMR and slower Reloder numbers. I have shot hundrds of pounds of them over the years, but anybody who relies on them for all-around shooting at low temps as well as high should do some serious cold testing before doing so. Quite often they will lose 150 fps from 70 to zero, which in itself doesn't matter much, but accuracy and point of impact can vary considerably as well.

This doesn't happen all the time, but you won't know unless you shoot the rifle and load at low temps. One .270 load using 130 Noslers and R22 went from a sub-inch load to over 1.5" at zero, and point of impact shifted over 3" at 100 yards.

I still use some IMR's, as well as quite a bit of R19 and R22, but only in applications where temps will be at least 40, say varmint, pronghorn or most caribou hunting. If there's any chance of getting down near zero I use only Hodgdon Extremes, Ramshot or R15. None of these have substantially changed velocity, accuracy or point of impact at low temps in any tests so far.

John, where would one get reloading info for the Ramshot powders. Looking to get a few loads worked up for a new 7mm Rem Mag using 160 gr TSX & Partitions. Groups will determine whom I choose. I've noticed it can get chilly up here elk hunting in January and February so am a fan of the temperature insensative powders.

Chuck

P.S. Nice talking to you in Capital Sports.

Mule Deer....I'm a much better lurker than I am a poster, so much so that I often feel guilty by thinking I don't have that much to offer. I just want to say thank you for taking time to share your "learnings" with this forum. You are indeed a good man, and very, very high on my list of favorite reads.
Thanks,
Respectfully, Russ

Muledeer
Keep in mind I have a freezer in the shop. It may be interesting to look at pressures at different temperatures.
Charlie

Chuck--

Ramshot has most of their data on their website, www.ramshot.com. You can also e-mail them for a loading manual at [email]powdermidrivers.com.[/email]

It was good seeing you at Capital! I hope the hunting season is going well. The deer should be starting to rut; they are here.

JB

Charlie--

That's a good idea, we can freeze the whole rifle and ammo before testing. Just like hunting in Montana!

The .416 barreled action showed up this morning. Priority Mailc an be quick! Luckily Miss Eileen shot her elk on the 3rd day of the hunt and we were home. I already have it in the stock; with 2.5x Leupold in Talleys it goes 9 pounds 5 ounces, exactly the same as my iron-sighted .416 Rigby, so is about right.

Thanks,
JB

Muledeer
Are you sure you dont want to borrow that High Tech stock I test fired with ? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> BE A MAN. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Charlie

I worked up some 300 and 340 WBY loads with R19 and they were excellent. When it got a lot colder ( although no where near zero!) I found my poi had shifted about 2" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
I don't hunt with anything other than H4831 or H4831 SC in my WBY's now. It's just so consistent.

I have had the best luck with VarGet and TAC in the medium- mefium fast powders. They are extremely versatile and easy to load. I haven't had as good as luck as MD has with Ramshot Magnum- good velocities but not the accuracy of R22 or H4831. I wish I had it too try when I was shooting a 6.5x284 in a 1000 yd BR gun. Those heavy Berger bullets liked the SLOW stuff...

Charlie--

I used to be a man, but then experience and some REAL HARD KICKERS knocked some sense into my head.

MD

Dennis--

I don't actually know if Magnum is as accurate as R19 or R22 most of the time, but in my rifles it has proven close enough. In my Sisk .300 Winchester it is accurate enough with 200 Partitions to sight in with one shot. When you can see the bullet hole move to the right place with one scope adjustment, then it's accurate! Haven't shot enough groups to say for sure yet, but imagine it's doing well under .75 at 100 yards. It does better than R22 or R25 in my Banser .270 Wby.

As you might imagine, it does best with really big cases, but have also done OK with it in .257 Roberts. Eileen's Ultra Light will do well under an inch with 120 Partitions, though she has since switched to 100 Triple Shocks with Ramshot Hunter, which is more like R19 in burning rate. These shoot even better than the Partitions, around .6.

Also just tried Hunter and 140 Triple Shock in her .270 and put three into .37 with 56 grains, muzzle velocity (22") 3025. This did in the spike elk.

All Ramshot powders generally shoot better with the hottest primer you can find, except in really small cases like .22 Hornet and .223 Rem. Even the .22-250 and .220 Swift do better with magnums.

Mule Deer:

Wow, I have the same observations about IMR powders. I used to love IMR 4831, but I gave up on it. I used to have a house in MN and shot all year round, and you could definitely see the affect. It is hard enough a very long ranges to deal with the change in air density...trying to compensate for MV is just too much.

The worst powder I have ever seen is H335, but it shoots well in .223s, and I don't plan to use them in frigid temps.

Have you ever noticed the super slow powders in big cases (e.g., .300 RUM) produce high MV standard deviations?

Thanks to MD and all, this info is just what I needed. I need to cull my ten or so powders down to three of so as I do not use as much as I used to and don't like to have a bunch "aging" in my cabinet. most of my loads are for the 25-06, 270, 7mm rem mag and 300 wsm. got to get some of the others out of the safe but how many can you really use in one deer season? it get complicated changing rifles with ammo and accessories, and keeping them sighted in with scope swapping and all in the off season. I usually carry two rifles to when I go so I have a spare or want to carry a lighter rifle in a climbing stand or something.

You might want to try Ramshot TAC in the .223, if you can find any. I switched over from H335 almost as soon as TAC appeared. It shoots just as well in most rifles, doesn't vary with temp, and is vastly cleaner-burning. I've shot my own heavy-barrel 700 .223 up to 450 times without cleaning, and 5-shot groups were still the same size as when I started. Used to have to swab out the barrel every 50 rounds with H335, just to keep the powder fouling to a level below black powder.

Yeah, big cases with super-slow powders generally tend to produce wider velocity swings. Partly this is because they're often producing higher velocities. A certain percentage of deviation means more when muzzle velocities are well over 3000 fps than when under. But some it is just the nature of igniting large amounts of powders that have slightly more resistance to ignition.

I did a lot of scope swapping this off season and I have used a great deal of patience and ammo trying to get things back in line. Between my poor bench shooting and adjusting scopes, I am at my whits end. any guidance for sighting in?