Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Arrested for not showing ID to police?

I was once told in Nebraska by a uniformed officer that I could be hauled in for vagrancy for the "crime" of not carrying ID. He claimed the law required all persons 16 and over carry ID at all times. I knew my DL number and after he called it in he said he was "letting me off with a warning this time."

If I have a RS or PC I will ask for ID (well not any more, but when I was working), if not I would ask an innocuous question or two and if that didn't raise my hackles it was "Have a nice day Sir/Ma'am".

You can't win them all, and you cannot step on the Constitution just because you think you have the power of government behind you.

There is also a lot to be said for the instincts you develop working in LE, many times they will lead you to a good arrest if you also have common sense and know your legal limitations.

Exactly.

There used to be such laws on the books. Most were struck down by the SCOTUS as unconstitutional in the 60s and 70s, and rightly so.

You no, it's very interesting that i've never stated that i am first in line to violate a persons civil rights, but again if anyone states anything different from what the majority feels, or explains it, it's an automatic assumption that your guilty of the act.

I was just stating what i've witnessed or have been told to do by supervisors, who'll terminate your azz in a heartbeat and blackball you, from any future LE employment, it's called insubordination. Look up the definition, it's as easy as one administrator calling another administrator on the phone and your gone. Most agencies that aren't civil service and most states that are "At will employment" states, you have very little, if any rights.

You work at their/admin's will and if they want you gone, your gone. Check around, do the LEO's in your community have the right to refuse an order that they know is illegal, without reprisal from the admin.? The military does, but LE isn't the military, only para military, and ran by people who consider you expendible. I've heard a chief of police say, "i can take a car, gun, and badge, and stand on the corner and have people line up around the block to have your job".

Secondly, i never saw anyone get upset when the Natl. Law Enforcement Bill Of Rights, died in the US House/Senate, that gave LEO's a choice to say "NO" when then knew that something was illegal or wrong, and not have to be threaten with job termination or be blackballed for blowing the whistle. The whistle blowers act doesn't apply, your choices are walk like a duck or find a different line of work, if that's the way the admin. wants things done.

If a supervisor came up to you while you were on a traffic stop and handed you a bag of dope and told you to plant it on the guy and arrest him, what then? Just follow orders? I know the answer, they wouldn't do that, right? You'd be in quite a pickle though if one did according to the way your supervisors operate. And yes, it is the same thing. Fact is, if you have a policy that says for you to ID everyone in the car on every traffic stop, and arrest those that don't comply or produce paper ID...you follow that policy and keep your job, and one day you'll be in court like this cop was, and without immunity most likely. Calling it policy, calling it "your job" or, "following orders" might keep you employed, but it doesn't make it legal.

I have never "walked like a duck" I also was not always on the best terms with supervisors. But when I am right, I am right and I will not change course. If you feel the need to "go along" without stating your feelings in a civil and respectful manner that is your choice. I was never insubordinate, but then was never asked to violate the letter or spirit of the law.

Trust me, "Andy & Barney" would not have lasted more than a shift or two here even in the "Old Days".

_______________________________________________________________

Tell me, Mr. self employed, soybean processor, what do you do?

Walk away from a job and a retirement, for not following directives? That really will set an example among your peers, they'll think you "dumb bastid" and someone will fill the position before the day is over. Do you think the admin. cares, no they'll put someone else in, and they'll do the job and know not to buck the system, cause they saw the last person canned.

Just curious, but what oath did you take and swear to when you pinned on the badge?

_________________________________________________________________

I took an oath to the state of TN, but reality, is what it is, your true oath is to survive the politics of your employer. What are you doubting that people aren't canned or blackballed for no reason in LE other then questioning, how things are being handled or questioning why this or that occured? Ask around in your community, you'll find people who quit or were canned for not playing the game, as directed by the Dept's admin.

Oath? Man, you just try to survive without getting fired, indicted, sued or committed!

Hunter,

I have no doubt you work in the environment you describe, and that's sad. I feel you want to do a good job, and do it right, and I understand wanting to keep your job. I'm glad that when I policed that my supervisors, for the most part, didn't poke their noses in what we did unless we asked for guidance, or were clearly screwing up. For the most part they let us make our own decisons, and use common sense and discretion. I have seen departments that wont allow a street officer any discretion or decision making authority, and I wouldn't want to work in such a place. I feel for ya brother! I had one Sgt tell me to give a guy a breath test for DUI after we had arrested him for shoplifting and were booking him in. He had walked in to the booking room and smelled alcohol on him. No field test, no nothing. When we'd stopped him leaving the store and made the arrest for theft, we'd smelled the alcohol, but figured we had him off the street, had a good theft charge, and nobody wanted to "load up" on the guy and he wasn't clearly intoxicated. And you have to be under arrest for DUI before you can be ordered to take a breath test. This guy wasn't, he was under arrest fot theft. I did as I was told, and in my report it read: "Sgt. X ordered me to give subject breath test, and then arrest subject if his BAC was too high. Subject failed with a .10 BAC, and was arrested for DUI per Sgt X's orders." Guess who took the heat for the bad DUI arrest that got tossed? NOT ME! And that broke that supervisor of pokin' his nose where it didn't belong and giving orders just to exercise his authority.

Cheyenne, stop making sense....you'll confuse the hysterics.

Hey it wasn't like he was "beating" his wife of something...opppsss sorry never mind

Things get swept under the rug all of the time or so it would seem ---- politics are what politics are and when lawyers are involved in this convoluted process it can get very interesting shall we say..

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You do what you have to do, to survive, each and everyday. I very well know what is obvious violations of civil rights/laws, sometimes you push the envelope. It's been a verbal policy to check ID's on passengers in veh's or for that matter if your given someone a ride in your patrol unit, if their veh. is broken down, or for any reason that you deal with the public, if you feel, that person could have an outstanding warrant.

As i've stated earlier LE is an ever changing situation, due to new court rulings etc. We've changed before, how business was done, we'll do it again.

I know that you've always have done everything above table, right? Please, don't preach to me about how it should be, this and that, before you look in your own mirror. Got ghosts? I've been in this business long enough to know how things are done, not everything is perfect. Many things happen on the street by cops and in the courtroom by Attor. defense/prosecution that could be looked at through a different set of eyes as not being perfect. But we do try to do the best we can, is a little this here, and that there going to make the big difference, probably not. I've seen people sold out in court in deals made between the State and defense, as you have also.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Were you protected by some sort of Civil Service, Union or other type of labor organization, FOP etc. They don't mean much around here, very few agencies fall under that umbrella.

I CAN'T WAIT to hear this one!!! Pass The Popcorn Please???

You Sir need a new line of work IMHO, if you can't be your own man you are in trouble. I was never "job skeered" in my entire life, sorry if you are.

Sure is a lot of cop bashing going on over here.

I'll bet half of you boys crying about cops and their methods couldn't make it through twenty traffic stops without having an anxiety attack. Easy job? Try it sometime.

There are some dumb-azz cops out there. Big surprise right? There's dumb-azzes at every job. Just look at Congress, they have a lot more power and control than any cop and that room is chock full of dumb-[bleep].


Travis

Hunter,

You're missing what I'm saying. Im not preaching at you, or cop bashing. I understand the environment your in, but I wouldnt want to be in it. I do things on my job under orders, that I'd rather do a different way, but I do what I'm told. The only thing I'm saying is, that your policy is contrary to that caselaw, though at the stage it's at now, it wouldn't be binding in your state. Yet.

I'm not perfect. We've all done things personally and professionally that we'd change in hindsite.