Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Hey, Dogzapper, tell me about the 120 gr. 7mm Nosler BT.

I seem to recall you have discovered the 120 gr., 7mm, Nosler Ballistic Tip is unusually "tough" for a BT and works surprisingly well on big game. Do I recall that right ?
Can you give me some examples, or explain how they differ from the usual BT's either in construction or performance wise ? What velocities have you used it ? Any problems with low impact velocities, say much under 2000 fps., not allowing it to expand as it should ? Do I recall something about that BT being made with a heavier jacket for use on iron rams, etc. ?
Much obliged. E

E

Yes, you remember correctly.

Interestingly, the 120 Ballistic is billed by Nosler as a varmint bullet. It is my opinion that the bullet was heavied up at some time for Rifle Silhouette shooters. I have found it to be an incredibly fine big game killer - in the classic sort of way.

Let me give you some kills:

Bull elk 6X5 (pushing 300 B&C) range: about 350 yards. Shooting from above his level, I hit him between the shoulder blades and the bullet passed to the low throat. The bullet broke the spine, traversed several vertabrae and came to rest just under the hide. Expansion of the jacket is .877", lost its core and weighs 58.2 grains there was lead core loose with the jacket. Obviously, the elk dropped in his track and slid to the bottom of the canyon.

Bull elk 6X6 (B&C maybe 270)nice little bull. Range: pushing 375. Not trying to be fancy, I centerpunched both shoulders. The bull fell at the shot and died. The bullet penetrated both shoulders, broke major bones with minimal bloodshooting and came to rest under the hide of the far shoulder. The bullet expanded to .698", lost its core and weighs 62 grains. I found a piece of the core with the bullet and it weighed probably 25 grains. Lost the core. Hey, I was busy butchering an elk and slipping in the snow and fighting to get all the stuff done before dark. Climbed out of the canyon with a flash light in my mouth.

Mule deer. 204 yards (lasered). Biggest damned deer I've ever shot. Aged at 9�-years at the game check in Great Falls. Huge forked horn with a 190 mainframe and no points to go with it, except for 4-inch eyeguards. Bases are six-inches (I just measured) and the horns are very heavy. Shot him behind the shoulder and the bullet exited ahead of the far shoulder. Exit hole was about 1�-inches. He struggled a bit and went down dead. Very little bloodshot; nice clean kill. Damned deer was the heaviest I've ever seen. I killed a whitetail in Alberta that weighed 378 pounds (guts in) and this mulie was larger - maybe 400 pounds live.

Antelope @ 210 yards (lasered). Good buck. Shot hin fully in the chest and the bullet penetrated the whole goat. The expanded bullet, with core attached was recovered next to the bunghole. Measures .766" and weighs 92 grains. Instand kill and no bloodshot.

The above were shot with a 7-08 Ackley with the 120 Ballistic @ 3246 muzzle velocity.

The following are a few killed using the .280 Ackley with the 120 Ballistic @ 3370 muzzle velocity.

Moose at 91 yards (lasered later, I was kinda in a fricking hurry). Shot the bull angling under the chin. The bullet broke a carotid artery, smashed a vertabre and blew a two-inch hole out the back of the neck. He stood for about five seconds and fell stiff-legged like a piece of plywood in a slight wind. No, I wasn't hunting moose with the 120; I was after whitetail.

Elk, just an eatin' cow at 100 yards. Shot her in the high neck. Bullet blew out both carotid arteries and may still be orbiting the earth. Exit hole was 1�-inches. Clean Kill and no blood in the cavity/

Mule deer buck. Maybe 160 B&C, but a dark-horned five year old who was doing all the right things (fighting other bucks and acting sassy). Coulda killed him at 400 (lasered) but there was no honor in it, coulda killed him at 300 (getting better), almost shot him at 200. Finally did an open field stalk on him and shot him at 61 yards. He'd just taken a bite of winter wheat and was contemplating screwing a doe or fighting another buck, when I shot him through both carotids (just at the kissey place behind the jaw). Dropped at the shot, pumped blood for thirty seconds and was a nice bloodless carcass.

Whitetail at 70 yards running full-out down a hill towards me (Hey man, he was overrunning my position). Aimed for the front of the neck and forgot to lead. Bullet hit him exactly between the freaking eyes. Blew the right horn precisely 31 yards from the corpus delicious and the left horn wilted, but stayed attached to the skull. The eyes bugged out and it was just a lovely friggin' thing. Nice buck too, probably a 145 B&C. Gad, I love it when a plan comes together.

Whitetail buck - 200 yards running straight across a snow field like the hounds of hell were after him. For some reason, I took the bait (it was probably his 140 rack) and aimed about eight feet in front of his chest and fired. At the shot, his reat legs went over his horns and he went down in a great cloud of snow. Hit him just in front of the hams, through the spine. By the time I got there, he was breathing his last. Broke the spine, ruined the tenderloins, did not hurt the backstrap. Maybe a two-inch hole on the far side. BS luck to have even hit him at all.

Antelope @ 210 yards (stepped off). Excellent buck. Shot behind the shoulder. Bullet exited far chest cavity (true broadside that I'd set up by waiting). Two-inch exit some blood shooting in the fascia uncer the far shoulder.

Antelope 325 yards and a hurryup shot. Behind the shoulder and very low (I thought he was 200 yards and held right on). Hit the bottom of the heart and exited the body cavity with a one-inch hole. No blood shooting.

Actually, I've killed a lot more animals than this with the 120 in the 7-08 Ackley and the 280 Ackley, but I'm just trying to point out the ones that are on the top of my head. In my opinion the 120-grain Ballistic is an excellent killer and it destroys less meat than I would have supposed.

If you hit a coyote in the face with it, the bullet tends to spoil the dog's day. Never killed a bear with it, but would use it with our hesitation in either rifle and at any range.

Hope this helps a bit.

Steve

E & DZ,
I just got thru filing down 2 Nosler BTs, both 7mm, 140gr and 120gr.


MtnHtr

DZ- What bbl lengths were these velocities obtained for the 7-08AI?

Congrats on some fine animals!

pointer,

Twenty-two inch Schneider barrel. My load for the 120-grain Ballistic Tip is 48.5 grains of Varget. Winchester nickel cases and WLR primers. The load is hot, but manageable, in my barrel. Cases last about six firings before the primer pockets open.

Please note: This load was developed for my barrel and chamber. Using this load in your rifle might well blow you ass into the next zip code. Please develop your own load for your own rifle and all that fancy writer's disclaimer stuff.

Steve

Thanks, DZ and MH. That picture of the sectioned bullets is worth a 1000 words. Removes all doubt from my mind.
I understand the BT's above .308 diameter are also of a heavy jacket design. Mule Deer says the jackets comprise over 50% of the bullet weight, so one always gets at least that much retained weight. Kinda looks like these particular bullets are similar to that. Funny Nosler wouldn't tell us about this.
I have a buddy who is a big Nosler fan. He really likes the old Solid Base bullets. He currently uses the Partition if he can't find/use the Solid Base bullets. He doesn't like the BT's because they are too fragile. I'm going to tell him to look up these posts. He may well like this bullet.
He tells me Nosler told him they have redesigned the BT eight times. And, according to him, they still don't have it right, like the older Solid Base bullets.
I'm looking for an in between 120 gr. bullet for my .280. The dang Barnes people have changed the ogive on their X bullet again. And, I discovered, a simple primer change opened my groups alot. From .5 or less to 1.75 MOA. I'm about ready to switch to the Hornaday Interbonds for the .280 and the .308. For now, I'll fool with the X. The new ogive may be more forgiving than the fancy Secant Ogive of the older XBT design. But, if it doesn't work out well, the 120 gr. BT's may well get my attention. Or i'll just use them as all around loads. E

Thanks for the info, as that level of performance maybe just what I'm looking for in a lightish weight rifle primarily for deerish sized game.

I was disapointed with the results I got last season with a 120 BT that just penciled through a little 100 pound spike. I shot him through the lungs at about 50 yards from a 7 Rem Mag. He ran about 30 yards before he expired. Just a small hole in, and another out. I expected more expansion than that bassed on what I've seen from other caliber BT's. I switched to the 140 gr. after reading Steve's comments about the 120 having a heavier jacket. Have only shot one buck with the 140 this season but results look to be more to my liking. Perhaps I should keep the 120 loads (they shot well) to try on a mule deer / Axis deer hunt?

As I said in my .280 Ackley article in Varmint Hunter, I'm sort of evenly divided between 120s and 140s. I've probably killed well over 100 big game critters with the 140 Ballistics and they are usually in my gun when I hunt big animals. BUT, I'm not sure that the 120 isn't a slightly better bullet.

The added velocity of the 120s gives very flat trajectory and they really thump antelope/deer/elk/moose when they hit. When I hunt for big animals, I naturally carry 140 Ballistics.

But sometimes I am primarily hunting whitetail or mule deer and have a 120 loaded in the gun. This seems to be the time that an elk of a moose shows up and I clobber it without thinking about the 120. Hey, they never know the difference.

What I am relating is actual field experience, not some technical thing dreamed up by a gun writer whose only approach to the field is what the companies put in their brochures. Nor is a repeat of something that someone who had killed a couple of animals with the Ballistic Tips said.

Bob Nosler prefers the 150 Ballistics in his Jarrett .280 Ackley. He says the blood shooting and tissue destruction is far less with the heavier bullet. Personally, I'd rather enjoy the flatter trajectories and lessened recoil of the lighter bullets. Makes me shoot better.

One of the coolest kills with the 120 BT was with my CPR .280 Ackley. I already had a great buck down and was trolling for a big dry doe. I found one in a big herd and was fixing to kill it when Karen said, "Don't spoil any meat, Honey." My friend Steve added, "Why don't you shoot the sumbitch in the head."

It was about 200 yards and I leaned against a tree and held smack dead between the eyes. The shot resulted in a loud WHACK and the doe dropped instantly.

The bullet entered the tear duct of the right eye (I guess I hadn't allowed for the wind) and tore the back of the head clean off. Brains on the snow -- Cool.

Anyway, Karen got her perfect deer carcass to bone and my friend Steve still raves about the shot.

Steve

The picture may be fooling me but it sure looks like the 120g BT has a substantially thicker jacket on the front end of the bullet. One would guess this would delay expansion thus increasing penetration. Maybe this is what happened in PDS's pencil shot.

HogWild

Great info Steve, appreciate it. BTW, I love the 200gr (338) BT's. They are the best deer bullet I've used.

That's what I like about you. I could tell that right off when I first started reading your stuff in "Varmint Hunter".

Cheaha and PDShooter

Thanks guys. As you could probably tell, my writing is straight from the heart and an attempt to get the right information out there. Thanks.
Steve

HW,
The jacket on the 120 was indeed thicker in the nose section than the 140. Both bullet's jackets in the lower section appeared about the same thickness.

MtnHtr

I might be seeing things differently, but the jacket on the 120 gr. bullet looks thicker all the way through until you are almost to the base. At half way down the jacket, there can be no doubt.
That "penciling through" may indicate not much expansion, but it did kill. Food for thought. Many don't like the Barnes X because of it's smaller expanded cross section. But, work they do. I much prefer a bullet that shoots through to one that looses it's core and doesn't exit.
Besides, we have the new poly tipped bonded bullets like the Scirocco, and the Interbond if faster/more expansion is desired. E

E

In almost every instance where I found a 120-grain Ballistic Tip jacket, I found the core, or a significant portion of it, with the jacket. I had always interpeted this to mean that the whole unit made it through the penetration process.

Anyway, for a varmint bullet, it's a hell of an elk and moose killer <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

Steve

E,

Its the picture giving you that illusion. Note that the 120 also appears wider in diameter but its not. Both bullets were filed down to .185", I layed the bullets down on copy paper over the kitchen counter. The counter tile has the contoured type, maybe the bullets were not laying evenly flat?



MtnHtr

They appear to be, the 120 gr. wider than the 140. But, when I measure them they come out the same width. The Jacket on the 120 is thicker and the lighting of the shot all tend to make them appear so. At any rate, the jacket on the 120 gr. bullet is much thicker all the way through. That would make a significant difference in there terminal performance assuming the same jacket material.
I talked to my buddy last night. He's fascinated as well.
He tells me Hornady did the same thing with their 139 gr. BT. The jacket on it is much heavier than the jacket on their 139 gr. flat base. The iron ram shooters requested it.
I understand the well thought of Nosler Solid Base bullets are back. I saw a post over at Accuratereloading.com on their Reloading Forum about them. The 150 gr. .284 and the 130 gr. .270. I dunno about any others. My buddy says they work much better than the BT's on all sorts of game. E

E. I have used the 284/150/SB on mule deer and the 284/120/BT. I like the 120s a whole lot better. They
perform just as good as the 150/SB but shoot a lot flatter and are really pleasant on the shoulder.

Hi,
Could you please specify where the carotid artery is exactly? Are you aiming for it, or is it just part and parcel of a neck shot?
BTW congrats on all the quick kills, I admire anyone who takes neck shots at over 150yards....
Lastly, do you consider a .280 AI to be a more efficient cartridge than say, the 270WSM or Weatherby?
Thanks