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Dude...I've read your posts expressing your feelings about Indians, or First Nations people, so don't go trying to play holier than thou on me. And you had your share of atrocities as well. And there are still millions of American Indians and Alaska Natives in this country -- I'm still here, after all...

You can also stop whining about somone wanting to abrogate your freedom of speech -- no one has said you shouldn't or can't talk about whatever you want to. Challenging your evidence, assumptions, logic or rationale is by no means the same as telling you to shut up. Which no one has.

Bear in mind, that I don't care how your leaders run your province or your country, and I have no interest in or intention of going hunting in British Columbia. So I got no dog in this fight at all.

I just find you kind of amusing, and sometimes can't overcome the impulse to respond. Which I will admit is really really stupid on my part... .

Good luck with your quest, and enjoy your revisionist view of your history. Hopefully it won't inform your future...

DN

Well, for someone who doesn't care, you sure have a lot of BS to spew on this issue, which is really none of your business, eh?

WHERE and WHEN were these ...atrocities...you claim happened here in Canada concerning aboriginal peoples? If, my historical references are...revisionist..., then why not be specific with your blatant lies, XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, eh, DUDE.

...I will admit is really, really stupid on my part..., wellll, YOU said it, about the only valid comment in your rant!

Edited by RickBin to remove racism.

Darryl
A few minutes on Google shows an assortment of atrocities... bias-dependant perhaps...

"One of the least understood aspects of the Duck Lake fight is why one of Chief Beardy�s Headmen (Assiyiwin) was shot during the purported parley preceding the fight. How did an old, half-blind, unarmed Headman of the Band become involved in the fracas?"

"Violence peaked on the morning of June 1, 1873, when traders and some wolf hunters from Fort Benton scattered an Assiniboine camp of 50 lodges, killing at least 20 men, women, and children beside what is now called Battle Creek, a tributary of the Missouri River in southwestern Saskatchewan."

"...the heart-wrenching tale of how thousands of First Nations children were "legally" seized from their parents by provincial governments during the 1950s, 60s and 70s, and placed with white adoptive parents in homes around the world. Placement agencies in the United Sates often received fees from the adoptive parents in the range of 15 to 20 thousand dollars per child."

"The major losers in the coming of the Loyalists were arguably the aboriginal peoples. In exchange for treaty rights, support and reserves set aside for their "use and benefit," they were stripped of much of their aboriginal rights through a series of treaties negotiated by the British Crown and their representatives. Adding to the difficulty was the fact that boundaries were often vague at best. Further, often there were serious language problems and misunderstandings. Both sides meant different things. Some translators were merely weak; others were dishonest. The only constant was that the aboriginals lost each and every time. The "Haldimand Grant" of three million acres along the Grand River was surrendered for trade goods valued at just slightly more than 1100 pounds."

Getting off topic but what the hell it's getting interesting again with some of the bucks locking horns here.
Just figured I'd throw in this bit of trivia. Who was the first recorded peoples that Biological warfare was used on?
The British used bits of Smallpox infested blankets cut up by immune soldiers and placed them in small tin boxes. The boxes were then placed near Native villages, and by spring time- guess what? Mass Extermination. At least the Americans went face to face when they fought the native Indians.
Some of lowest cowardly acts performed, that wasn't written into Canadian history books. I really was ashamed after reading these articles.

""Violence peaked on the morning of June 1, 1873, when traders and some wolf hunters from Fort Benton scattered an Assiniboine camp of 50 lodges, killing at least 20 men, women, and children beside what is now called Battle Creek, a tributary of the Missouri River in southwestern Saskatchewan."



The wolfers who committed the Cypress Hills Massacre were Americans. Fort Benton is in Montana.

"One of the least understood aspects of the Duck Lake fight is why one of Chief Beardy�s Headmen (Assiyiwin) was shot during the purported parley preceding the fight. How did an old, half-blind, unarmed Headman of the Band become involved in the fracas?"




"Gentleman" Joe McKay was an English Metis. His claim backed by other observers was that the indian he shot , Assiyiwin, had been struggling with him over one of his guns.

""...the heart-wrenching tale of how thousands of First Nations children were "legally" seized from their parents by provincial governments during the 1950s, 60s and 70s, and placed with white adoptive parents in homes around the world. Placement agencies in the United Sates often received fees from the adoptive parents in the range of 15 to 20 thousand dollars per child."




There may well have been some abuses in the adoption program but in many cases there were several good reasons to remove the children from abussive and/or neglective home situations. Of course it would be great if all children were born and raised in loving homes which provided for their needs but it aint always happening .

A case in point ;

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080130.wsaskgirl0130/BNStory/National/home


"...It was just after midnight on the Yellow Quill reserve when Christopher Pauchay hoisted his two small children in his arms and staggered into a howling white winter storm.
The winds sent temperatures careening toward �50 degrees that night, but Mr. Pauchay didn't even put on a jacket. His 15-month-old daughter, Santana, and his three-year-old daughter, Kaydence, wore only diapers and T-shirts, so he swaddled one in his own winter coat and wrapped the other in a thin blanket. They were heading for his sister's house, 400 metres away across barren dunes of drifting snow.

But Mr. Pauchay, 24, had been drinking heavily Monday night, his elder sister, Bernita Pauchay, said Wednesday. His wife Tracey, 21, had stormed out after a fight earlier that evening, and Mr. Pauchay was left home alone with the children. The day before he had taken a ride to the local liquor store, where he bought a case of beer and two bottles of whisky.

"My brother was so intoxicated," Bernita, 35, said. "I don't know how big the bottles were, but when he drank whisky he would get real loaded...."

Small pox blankets :

The British officer said to have used small pox blankets was Lord Jeffrey1 Amherst was commanding general of British forces in North America during the final battles of the so-called French & Indian war (1754-1763) The references to use of the blankets was in regards to a siege of Fort Pitt (Pittsburgh) by Chief Pontiac's forces during the summer of 1763.
Pittsburgh, 1763 puts this action in British North America not Canada and at a time when the area was BNA was used to describe all of British possessions including what became America.
I can't see why Canada should be blamed for this.

The treaties signed during those times are still the ones used by the natives today- so yes it is relevant to Canadians and the Dominion of Canada formerly called.
I don't know about the story posted by Sitka about Battle river but I know Duck lake is in Saskatchewan because I drove through it many years ago unless there is another Duck Lake in the USA.
Thanks for the history update and have a good day Murf.

Murf
Dangers of Google... and lack of knowledge of real history... sorry for any confusion from my end.
art

While this is little of topic but since we seem to have gone off topic anyway I thought I would post. It does include natives and guide outfitters and doesn't bode well for the guide-oufitter business in British Columbia.

http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=1bd774b4-db3c-4f86-99dd-efb716708917

Sorry if off topic again but further to the bits on Duck Lake


There are a good many places called Duck Lake, I know of several one beiong a beautiful lake in Montana.
The one in question is from Sask. near Batoche. There was a battle or perhaps more accurately a skirmish there between North West Mounted Police and the followers of Louis Riel. The Duck Lake fight is considered the first action in what is known as the Riel Rebellion or North West Rebellion

A good book on the subject is "These are the Plains" written by Alvina Hamilton. She was the daughter of a gentleman named Bonneau who came from Quebec. Her brother Pascal established a large ranch in southern Sask. It was Pascal who took Riel's body and hid it under a church floor following the hanging and later delivered it to Riel's family for burial. Riel's mother stayed with the Bonneau's during the trial and later execution.
Because of their french background they knew a good many of the influential metis but being a railway contractor the family also had connection to the gov't side. If I recall correctly, Mrs. Hamilton , has a part in her book about a meeting between Gabriel Dumont , the metis "general" and Joe McKay that took place years later. In the encounter Dumont tells McKay that he was the one who fired the shot that left Dumont with a prominent scar on his forehead.

Another great part from her book is when she tells of being awakened by people talking in her house shortly before Riel was executed in Regina. She says the visitor was a police Sargent who was explaining to her father that the "plan" had been leaked and was called off. Later her father informed her the plan had been to let Riel escape once again to the US. It seems old John A. foresaw the troubles the hanging of Riel by the gov't would cause with the people of Quebec and had police arrange to have metis from the Willow Bunch area of southern Sask cache relays horses between Regina and the US border. The southern metis had not joined the rebellion as they saw the group at Batoche as trouble makers and several of the Willow Bunch and Wood Mountain area metis actually worked as scouts for the gov't side.

I mention the bits about the Bonneau family to show they had inside knowledge of the situation from both sides and to illustrate that contemporary versions of the uprising are one sided, with the gov't side being politically incorrect in todays terms. It has gotten so one sided that a few years ago one caller to a radio talk show claimed she was the great grand daughter of Dumont and was giving her version of how badly her people were treated until the guest on the program reminded her that Dumont never had any kids !!!!

Does anyone happen to know if this Brian Martin used to sell Real Estate around the Bozeman, MT area?

I believe it states that he did, right on his outfitter site.

RO

Thanks, Otter
I think it was Brian that used to come into the gun dept where I worked once in a while. He said he was buying an outfitting business in BC, and I wondered how it was possible for a non resident to go toCanada and do that.
Royce

From the Canadian side, one of the smartest things said. "Making a false statement to a conservation officer" is not the same as poaching. I don't condone breaking the law in any way, shape or form but would like to hear Bryan's side of it before he's castrated, shot, folded, spindled, and mutilated by my friends north of the border.

"DWS" (darn well said there Mac!)

Dober

As far as I'm concerned kick his azz out..No need for his side.If he's lying to the CO's he'll lie to everyone else..

And you know this because...?

Brad take off the blinders....It's in the first post..