Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Norma PH Ammuntion?

Has anybody tried this stuff? I was looking at the data and thought fine and dandy. Then I saw the prices (they are priced in 10 round boxes) and thought WOW! I have never seen prices that high for standard calibers. A .458 Lott pushing 2100 fps with a 500 grain Woodleigh and costing an arm and a leg? Nuts!

Or maybe I'm wrong?

Accurate stuff in the 350 grain and yea, it's E X P E N S I V E.

but no worries, my handload duplicates theirs to a T.

its made by people paid in Euros

93 to 227 for 10 bullets, wow

Arizona's coolest flyfishing shop (the one with the little gun room in the back) has TWO .500 NE double rifles in the rack and 8 boxes of Norma PH .500 NE ammmo on the shelf! (I didn't even ask the price... you know: "if you have to ask....") but its $206 at Midway!

one box was open, the box opens into a display case with the 10 rounds neatly seated in a felt-like lined indentations in the holder and the lid appears to have shooting vital area instructions and a big game receipe book built into its folds.... or something like that, I didn't put on my reading glasses.

if I'm rich when I grow up, maybe I'll get one!

Poole

I just finished going to the range with my CZ 375 H&H (25" barrel). 350g Woodleigh Protected Points,70g of H4350, Rem brass, CCI Large Rifle Magnum Primers, 2310fps chronographed, which should duplicate the Norma PH ammo at about $1.50 per round as opposed to $10 a round. The load was 2 grains below max in my rifle and very accurate. I got the load data from Woodleigh, Geoff recommended starting at 68g and working up to at most 72g.

+1

I settled on 68.5 - 69.0 grains H4350 from my 24" barrel. Plenty accurate and plenty close to the Norma load.

Kynoch use to sell ammo in 5 to the box in the day and it was not cheap then. This is boutuqe ammo. And when ever you deal in real small amounts the cost per unit is going to be much higher. Its one thing when you make 7millon rounds of 308 per week for the civil market vs maybe 1500 rounds of 500 Nitro for the whole year. Roy Weatherby explained it to one of the gun scribes that when you make only 200,000 rounds of 7mm Weatherby Mag's vs the Millions of rounds Remingtion makes in 7mm Remington Mag. There is going to be a price difference per box. Economics of scale. And there is the other thing, guys that buy 500 Nitro Doubles, could care less that the ammo is 20 dollars or more a shot. There are people in this world where 20 dollars for a 500 round would be considered a bargain. There was a time when nobody made it and what little was around was very costly. The 416 Rigby comes to mind prior to 1980. Guys were having Machine shops turn off the belts of 460 or 378 Weatherby's just so they could have New cases to handload. Never mind about 416 bullets. Now you can buy one for reasonable costs and even shoot it, it was not always the case.

Hi Russ, I'm not saying the Norma PH ammo isn't worth it. Compared to the overall cost of a Safari while not in the noise, it's not really that significant. However for we handloaders there's a cheaper and as good alternative.

Regards,
Chuck

+1

Handloads for practice, factory fodder for across the pond. Can't lose.

Here in Scandinavia the Norma PH is certainly also considered expensive. But US hunters are obviously rather lucky, as it seems Norma is selling the PH range at a somewhat lower price in the States!
In Denmark a box with 10pc of .375HH PH range Woodleigh Soft nose sells for 1449- Danish Crowns, which with today�s exchange rate comes to 303 US $ !!!. That kind of preference marketing can only make European hunters less than happy, to put it mildly, and I have personally stopped using Norma products for that reason.
Furthermore should US hunters be able to look forward to even lower prices, if the US Dollar eventually survive the Doldrums and return to normal value.

In my humble opinion it's not worth it on two accounts. First, there are FAR better bullets out there than Woodleighs and I prefer a bit more velocity than bullet weight with the proper bullet. For example I'd much prefer a 270gr TSX @2700 for my 375 than a 350gr @2300. jorge

In my experience Woodleigh bullets are quite velocity specific, so going to a heavier and slower load may make some sense. When talking to Ganyana at SCI about the Norma PH loads he made a comment that the 375 and 458 "don't need bigger bullets, just better bullets" I'd have to agree.

Hi Phil;

I'm the "Supreme Loads for The 45-70" guy who contacted you a couple of years ago about "Fast Pigs". Question: I'm shooting the "new" 350gr TSXs in my CZ550 458 Win at just over 2700 fps. They shoot into less than MOA. Plan to take it for moose in N. Ontario this October should I get my bull tag (50% chance). Have you had experience with it, and, if so, how does it compare with the 400 "X" for example? Into the berm behind the 100 yd target they look very good. About 90 to 95% wt retention into a mix of wet sand, gravel, mud, etc.

I never compared the 350 TSX with the older 400 X bullets for penetration but would guess that at the velocity you are getting they should certainly get the attention of any moose.

Better bullets than the 350 gr. Woodleigh? I would be interested in knowing what bullets are better from someone who has used the 350 Woodleighs on game...I have not used the PH ammo, only my own handloads with the 350 Woodleighs.

IMO, after using many bullets in my old .375 I think the 350 Woodleigh PP is the best bullet I have ever used. I have shot plainsgame, more than a few cape buffalo, Bison, and bull elk with it..Always huge big ragged mushroomed bullets with big ugly exit holes, even on Bison and Cape buffalo...If I want, need, more expansion then I will use the 350 gr. Woodleigh RN...The are also very accurate in every 375 that I have tried them in. I like other bullets also. The old North Forks were great and GS Customs makes a great monolithic..The Barnes bullets are well thought of, Lot of good bullets out there.

It bothers me when someone makes a determination of a bullet without hands on experience, its naughty...:)

I think Ganyana may have a little experience and I've been in on a couple of kills myself. In my experience, and talking with a number of other experienced hunters and pros, Woodleighs are soft and tend to "over expand" - which is not necessarily bad, depending on the performance you want.
I think the 350 Woodleigh bullets go a long way into making the 375 a decent "stopper" for bears and no doubt lion.

Well I'm sorry it bothers you Ray, but I didn't have to drive a Yugo to know it was a POS (NOT that I'm saying Woodleighs are bad!). There have been literally hundreds of threads specifically addressing Woodleighs and their less than optimum performance at higher velocities (overexpansion andPhil's post above adds credence), hence my comment. I'll be the first to admit I'm a friggin' neophyte compared to the likes of you & Phil for example, but I would much rather have say a 350gr TSX@ 2500 plus out of my 416 Rigby than a 450gr Woodleigh @ 2150. That is just my preference and I'd be willing to bet the 350TSX will handily outpenetrate the heavier, slower Woodleigh. jorge

Since the 350gr Woodleigh bullets completely penetrated the chests on a couple of large bears I will not complain about their ability to open and kill well. So will a number of other good bullets. Before I used them I tested them in large piles of moose scraps. Recovered 350 Woodleighs gave virtually the same penetration as 270 Hornady factory loads. I recovered four of each and they all weighed around 200-220 gr and what was left was expanded to the virtually the same diameter.
The 270gr TSX bullets that I fired into the same mess penetrated over twice as deep, were expanded to a large diameter and, except for one that lost one petal, retained 100% of their weight.
Bullets are what they are - you pick the one that gives the performance you desire.

By large bears, could you be a little more specific? Were they Alaskan coastal browns, grizzlies, black/brown bears and how large? Just trying to understand, as I'm shooting 350g Woodleigh PPs myself.

Thanks,
Chuck

Hmmm, the typed word sometimes seem to not extend the intention..I am sorry if I came across in that manner and I certainly have a lot of respect for Ganyana, 458 Win and Jorge, so my apoligy to all..

My contention is I have found the PP in my 375 and 416 with the heavy 350 and 450 gr. "PP" bullets at my velocity of about 2400 or a bit less FPS, was an awesome killer with complete penetration on Cape Buffalo and Bison, so I consider that "enough" penetration.

I will clarify also that the RN does not penetrate as well as the PP in either caliber so Woodleighs are as Phil explained velocity managed from the manufacturer..All Woodlieghs are designed for a specific velocity for the caliber and nose configuration I am told.